The trouble with mosques!

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
1

I wonder,just how much recruiting and encitement goes on,in and around mosques?Unfortunatly,being a non believer i would not be allowed in a mosque to find out for myself.I am sure that this Finsbury Park mosque and this radical cleric Abu Hamza al-Masri,felt that their sanctity would stop the police and anti-terrorist units from entering.

I am not a religous person myself but i have been in just about every denomination`s places of worship and have been welcomed,why not mosques?You can understand why people are suspicious,when you close your door to outsiders.

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/crime/story.jsp?story=371337

Police find stun gun and CS gas in mosque raid
By Ian Burrell, Home Affairs Correspondent
21 January 2003

Police seized a stun gun, an imitation weapon capable of firing blanks and a CS gas canister during a raid yesterday on a London mosque that has been branded a recruiting ground for international terrorism.

Officers also found large numbers of passports, identity cards and credit cards and took away documentation and computers from the Finsbury Park mosque. Detectives were last night questioning seven men – six North Africans, aged 23 to 48, and a 22-year-old from Eastern Europe – who were arrested at the mosque under the Terrorism Act 2000.

The raid, which involved two helicopters and 150 officers in body armour using battering rams to enter the building at 2am, provoked fury among radical Islamic leaders and concern from moderate Muslim groups. But Tony Blair’s official spokesman said: “The police have the full support of the Government in taking whatever action they feel they need to take in pursuit of their investigations.”

Scotland Yard confirmed that the raid – codenamed Operation Mermant – followed directly from the recent discovery of the poison ricin at a flat in nearby Wood Green on 5 January. No chemicals were found at the mosque. A Metropolitan Police spokesman said: “Evidence gathered during recent counter-terrorist investigations in London and elsewhere has uncovered links between the premises and suspected terrorist activity. Such evidence has made this operation absolutely necessary at this time.”

There has been concern for several years that the Finsbury Park mosque was being used to encourage young Muslims to take up arms in a holy war. Among past worshippers at the building are the “shoe-bomber” Richard Reid, who faces life imprisonment next week when he is sentenced for trying to blow up a Miami-bound jet, and Zacharias Moussaoui, the alleged 20th hijacker on 11 September.

The mosque was founded in 1991 by Muslims from the Indian subcontinent, but it was hijacked by extremists, including the cleric Abu Hamza al-Masri, a former mujahedin fighter in Afghanistan. Scotland Yard said Abu Hamza had not been a target of the operation.

Metropolitan Police Deputy Assistant Commissioner Andy Trotter said police would tackle terrorist suspects “wherever they may be”.He added: “This was a very carefully planned operation. We briefed our officers on the sensitivity needed.”

2

What makes you think you would be barred from a mosque?

3

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Mr Xtreme: *
What makes you think you would be barred from a mosque?
[/QUOTE]

Because that is what i have been told,that non-believers cannot enter a mosque.If that is not the case,then i am wrong and apologise.However is there not a difference when you are called to prayer,would a non believer be allowed in?

4

Braveheart,

I've seen plenty of non-muslims in mosques, whether they would be allowed in during prayer I have no idea, but seeing as we often have camera crews from British news services filming people at prayer I would have thought it's ok. I'll transfer this to religion where someone will be able to give you a proper answer.

5

I have seen jews stand in prayer with us at our mosque...
Anyone who tells you that you cant go in .. obviously has got
something to hide.
We have college students and anyone who wants any information
on islam come to the mosque. Everyone is welcome anytime

Besides the mosque is the house of God ... it is not personal property
It is the people who mess things up

6

I've personally taken non-Muslims on tours inside at least two mosques. A number of the larger mosques might even have a designated individual for that very purpose who will i'm sure be only too happy to receive you.

Iqbal

7

sorry but i nearly fell from my chair laughing at your innocent nature.

Mosque in Aberdeen is on High Street. visit it whenever you want it. :slight_smile:

btw, don’t tell me “someone” told you that muslims want to kill all non-muslims too :rolleyes:

8

B’Heart: I have, as a non-muslim, visited the largest Mosque in India with two of my American friends. You can indeed go in. And if you go to Jama Masjid in Delhi, for 500 rupees, the older molvi will show you a hair from Mohammed’s beard which is kept in a galss jar.

Pretty cool :k:

9

Here’s one:
*"The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies – civilians and military – is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy mosque [Mecca] from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim. This is in accordance with the words of Almighty Allah, “and fight the pagans all together as they fight you all together,” and “fight them until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah.” *

Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders
World Islamic Front Statement
23 February 1998
Shaykh Usamah Bin-Muhammad Bin-Ladin

World Islamic Front for Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders: Initial “Fatwa” Statement

10

And what’s that got to do with this topic?

11

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Mr Xtreme: *
And what's that got to do with this topic?
[/QUOTE]
khan_sahib asked if any Muslim said that muslims want to kill all non-muslim. Here is the extreme (and isolated) case that got us all into this mess we're in. It's an example how one can twist the good works of what a mosque can do into something blasphemous. Thank God most mosques haved decided to ignore this crazy man's fatwa.

12

Like everyone has already pointed out, any non-muslim can visit any mosque. I think the initial point raised by Braveheart was in relation to the prohibition on entry to the cities of Makkah and Madinah, and yes, that prohibition stands. But apart from that, non muslims are welcome to visit any mosque in the world.

Seminole..the mosques have surely decided to ignore such fatwas....but whether or not this fatwa, alongwith the numerous other zany ones that have been floated, are indeed the work of this man remains to be proven. We hear of statements, tapes, fatwas attributed to him all the time, but nothing has ever been positively linked to him.

13

so what even if it's from him.. who died and appointed OBL pope for Islam?

14

exactly.

15

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
so what even if it's from him.. who died and appointed OBL pope for Islam?
[/QUOTE]

yeah, who the hell is he. I mean hardly anyone knew the guy 2 years ago.

Braveheart, there are mullahs who are idiots sadly and reflect badly on the real scholars who dont get involved in the type of non sense masri or that idiot from Mohajiroun get into. They are a loud, annoying minority that stick out like a sour thumb.

Most mosques have open houses for people who want to talk and learn and just communicate. However, it does not preclude them from going in a mosque anytime as long as they respect the sanctity of the place and respect the rules. I recall a gentleman who would not take his shoes off and when told he could not enter the prayer area with his shoes, got irate and stormed off, but that was a unusual case everyone else I have seen follows the rules just like the rest of the congregation. Now I dont know what that gentleman who stormed off has said to his familya nd friends about muslims and the mosque but hey one cant please all.

16

I dont believe this,my post was not about non-believers not being allowed to enter mosques,that was merely an observation of mine in relation to the link to the Finsbury Park bust,which i must say,is a current event,even front page news,in Britain.
So i apologise for my ingnorance in this one matter,my post get`s moved from the place where i believe it should be and now all you want to discuss wether non believers are allowed into mosques.
I wanted a discusion on the events at Finsbury Park and i ask that my post be returned to where the relevant question might be discussed,asd ths is indeed a world event.I have already found out that i was wrong on the one item and have apologised for my ignorance in that matter.
So please do not leave this in religous forum,i cant learn anything more here.

17

Braveheart

my apologies but your question seemed more about not being able to enter mosques than about anything else.

Now as far as how much recruitment goes in and around mosques, I dont know. As far as I know the mosque that I go for worship has no one with any idiotic views, but do I know for certain that nothing goes on.. nope. can I be sure that something indeed goes on..No.

The bigger question is that is the mgmt of the mosque or the preacher himself an idiot? as is in the case of finsbury mosque, or whether a place is just used as a gathering point for people who can just as well gather up at piccadilly circus.

Your statement regarding mulims not stepping up to curb the extremists amidst them, I run into about as many extremists a day as you do. Aside from going out searching for them (and probably get caught by cops as someone who is interested in becoming a member of such groups:) ), I doubt that I will run into them. If by chance I run into someone with radical views ofcourse I will debate, but speaking of getting "rid" of the radicals amongst us, its easier said than done.

How is an average joe working 9-5, doing his usual gig expected to "rid" his group of radicals? There are no radicals in my group. Should I make every englishman responsible for getting rid of the National Front? how many ppl know a neonazi?

All we can do is counter the lame propoganda of radicals by showing the face of the majority and to keep others from buying into their garbage. And we are about as effective at doing it as a normal englishman is regarding the National Front. i.e. not very successful.

These little extremist groups stick out like sour thumb and thats why they are more visible. There has been a lot said and done by everyday average muslims to show that we dont buy into their garbage and that their views are not our views, but its not that news worthy.

So now for events at finsbury mosque. I have always thought of Masri as an idiot, and at minimum they should spank him around for his hate speech against everyone except his own zombie followers. Let the police and intelligence agencies do their job. muslims will cooperate where they are able to, but enforcing law is not their job, and as I have noted earlier we dont run into confirmed terrorists any more frequently than you would.

18

Its not nice to take anything out of context, may be we can debate this on the religion forum… For your info the following directly contradicts what you said. Its straight from the quran.

  1. " whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or misery and mayhem in the earth, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind." Al-Qur’an 5:132
19

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Abdali: *
Its not nice to take anything out of context, may be we can debate this on the religion forum... For your info the following directly contradicts what you said. Its straight from the quran.
[/QUOTE]
No arguements from me, it's not my fatwa. I was already under the assumption that it contradicts any sane's person interpretation of any people's religous texts.

20

Mormons don't allow non-believers into their temples.