If the cops are called and both man and woman are claiming that the other one has beaten her/him, they normally take woman's words and consider her "victim" (and general public think the same) :(
raaaat on the money ma man...
You are so rite man. Like this **Kenjifu **aunty is fighting with me and using all the bad words (in another thread) I never said anything bad to her. I bet Director saab or any other MOD will take her side because I am a man taking her abuse...
What I see, is a systematic shift in the man's position from assailant to a victim over last 100 years. The fight for women's rights was good, but when the women's rights started infringing upon men's rights, the fight should've been halted. I blame the men more for letting it happen to us, however, what's more troubling is, that feminists are still continuing with their illogical, incoherent and in some case morally flawed rhetoric. Men, on the other hand, are too naive to fight back.
Another issue is the transpiration of the judicial biases into the accepted norms of social behaviors for both men and women. Women through tantrums, and get away with little damage to themselves, whereas, if a man retorts in the same tone, he is labelled insensitive and an aggressor.
What I see, is a systematic shift in the man's position from assailant to a victim over last 100 years. The fight for women's rights was good, but when the women's rights started infringing upon men's rights, the fight should've been halted. I blame the men more for letting it happen to us, however, what's more troubling is, that feminists are still continuing with their illogical, incoherent and in some case morally flawed rhetoric. Men, on the other hand, are too naive to fight back.
Another issue is the transpiration of the judicial biases into the accepted norms of social behaviors for both men and women. Women through tantrums, and get away with little damage to themselves, whereas, if a man retorts in the same tone, he is labelled insensitive and an aggressor.
Very well said. What do we do? whatever it is, I am in it...all the way...
Re: The Systematic Degradation of Men's Rights (MEN)
The health system is discriminatory towards men. Women merilly go and see the doctor whilst the men would rather die than damage their over inflated egos.
The education system is discriminatory towards men. Women are high achievers in the class room and the epitome of concentration whilst then men have short attention spans.
Men are handicapped with a strong labido. Woman flutters her eye lids man would bow down, kneel and prostrate. Blame it on the modern day sex culture.
Very well said. What do we do? whatever it is, I am in it...all the way...
Let's form Men support groups wherever you live. It does not have to be a formalized movement as such, but you should target your own community, friends and family. Do not ever be abusive, but make the women know that they probably have it too easy and are getting away with a lot. Read upon the legal system's bias against men, and advocate men's rights wherever and whenever you can.
A methodical approach is needed when arguing with women, which unfortunately, many of us lack. Whether their arguments wholly make sense or not, women usually have a lot to say. That is where men get baffled because they lack the methodical approach to refute arguments and often are too afraid to appear insensitive. Let's not be abusive, but let's not take the abuse as well.
Re: The Systematic Degradation of Men's Rights (MEN)
Dear Initiator .. just remeber one thing .. in USA . majority is minority ..
when it comes to rights, if you are a grownup/straight/christian/white/male .. forget about your rights. Your life will be spent, securing and entertaining the rights of other people
Re: The Systematic Degradation of Men's Rights (MEN)
Positive discrimination should be encouraged. We need more women politicians, doctors etc to restore the balance. In the long term it will be beneficial.
Woman's pink ribbon breast cancer appeals, where is the man's equivalent? Censored wrist band campaign.
Let's form Men support groups wherever you live. It does not have to be a formalized movement as such, but you should target your own community, friends and family. Do not ever be abusive, but make the women know that they probably have it too easy and are getting away with a lot. Read upon the legal system's bias against men, and advocate men's rights wherever and whenever you can.
A methodical approach is needed when arguing with women, which unfortunately, many of us lack. Whether their arguments wholly make sense or not, women usually have a lot to say. That is where men get baffled because they lack the methodical approach to refute arguments and often are too afraid to appear insensitive. Let's not be abusive, but let's not take the abuse as well.
I like the idea.... but then again there are many sissy men everywhere, how do u deal with them? May be we should make Al-Bundy our leader...what say you ?
Positive discrimination should be encouraged. We need more women politicians, doctors etc to restore the balance. In the long term it will be beneficial.
Woman's pink ribbon breast cancer appeals, where is the man's equivalent? Censored wrist band campaign.
I think it was important to bring breast cancer out of the realm of the taboo since it affects so many women, however, I think that in the drive to address breast cancer, we have ignored more common cancers such as skin, lung, and colo-rectal. Arguably, the first two are fairly preventable. Breast cancer has become a marketing gimmick. Pink Kitchen-Aid mixers - give me a break!
I want a blue corvette, all in the name of prostate cancer research, of course :)
Dear Initiator .. just remeber one thing .. in USA . majority is minority ..
THIS. best post so far.
try and understand that women (just like African Americans) are given preference due to the history of unfairness against them. It is not a rule of majority, but there must be a certain concept of 'elitism' so that even if a law is not in favor of the majority, it still be approved. only in 1920 did they get the right to vote. The same with african americans....affirmative action programs provide poor blacks with services to support them, however, there are not as many programs for poor white americans (even though there are more of them in america).
Dont forget that only recently obama has tried to alter women's pay to match that of men. rather than stating isolated cases, how about one presents some real statistics to show systematic discrimination against men? Systematic discrimination means that the whole system is working against them (intended or unintended). You really cannot expect one to agree with this when the statistics show more women are abused by men than men by women (just ONE example)
If you are concerned about men's rights (such as men that are abused) then its a great idea to form a support group but please dont dismiss the feminist movement. The spirit of the feminist movement was not to fight with men but to secure basic human rights to women. but again, a rose by any other name would smell as sweet...so lets say "feminism" sucks. Lets just agree to just recognize women as beings that are your equal and call it a day...(unfortunately...there are some ...as seen in this thread...who do not even recognize this...)
Positive discrimination should be encouraged. We need more women politicians, doctors etc to restore the balance. In the long term it will be beneficial.
IMO that’s wrong phenomenon. There is no such thing as Positive Discrimination. Discrimination (-ive or +ive) ends up depriving rightful people in the society and which intern creates imbalance.
For example if there are 5 candidates for the seat 2 gals and 3 guys and one of the guy is MOST suitable for the spot, seat should not be given to the girl just to “balance it out” the historical discrimination. Right step would be to stop discrimination of any kind and time will balance things out automatically.
Re: The Systematic Degradation of Men's Rights (MEN)
JU GO GIRL!
IMO that’s wrong phenomenon. There is no such thing as Positive Discrimination. Discrimination (-ive or +ive) ends up depriving rightful people in the society and which intern creates imbalance.
For example if there are 5 candidates for the seat 2 gals and 3 guys and one of the guy is MOST suitable for the spot, seat should not be given to the girl just to “balance it out” the historical discrimination. Right step would be to stop discrimination of any kind and time will balance things out automatically.
Disagree, positive discrimination should be encouraged. Now imagine if every doctor is a male doctor. The whole environment, institution and selection process is anti-female. Now would a woman want to apply, nope. Even if they did would they get selected, nope. So ultimately it's a loss to society.
In the current climate, yes Decent 6Chora in the short term we may have to run at a loss, but in the long term it will be beneficial.
Disagree, positive discrimination should be encouraged. Now imagine if every doctor is a male doctor. The whole environment, institution and selection process is anti-female. Now would a woman want to apply, nope. Even if they did would they get selected, nope. So ultimately it's a loss to society.
In the current climate, yes Decent 6Chora in the short term we may have to run at a loss, but in the long term it will be beneficial.
Lets agree to disagree then. Looks like you did not read my post carefully. I said we have to be FAIR and not "positively discriminant". Now if we are FAIR and that LADY DR is deserving, she will get selected anyway.
If we go by your logic we may end up giving seat to INCOMPETENT lady doctor. I'd choose COMPETENT male DR any day instead of ending up on operation table of incompetent female DR who got the job JUST because we want to get rid of past discrimination.
THIS. best post so far.
try and understand that women (just like African Americans) are given preference due to the history of unfairness against them. It is not a rule of majority, but there must be a certain concept of 'elitism' so that even if a law is not in favor of the majority, it still be approved. only in 1920 did they get the right to vote. The same with african americans....affirmative action programs provide poor blacks with services to support them, however, there are not as many programs for poor white americans (even though there are more of them in america).
Dont forget that only recently obama has tried to alter women's pay to match that of men. rather than stating isolated cases, how about one presents some real statistics to show systematic discrimination against men? Systematic discrimination means that the whole system is working against them (intended or unintended). You really cannot expect one to agree with this when the statistics show more women are abused by men than men by women (just ONE example)
If you are concerned about men's rights (such as men that are abused) then its a great idea to form a support group but please dont dismiss the feminist movement. The spirit of the feminist movement was not to fight with men but to secure basic human rights to women. but again, a rose by any other name would smell as sweet...so lets say "feminism" sucks. Lets just agree to just recognize women as beings that are your equal and call it a day...(unfortunately...there are some ...as seen in this thread...who do not even recognize this...)
a) You do realize that women are given preference now. I started the argument with the acknowledgement that they were treated unfairly not too long ago, but that does not justify their demand to be treated more than fairly now. Equal rights mean equal rights, in all senses of the argument. Does the unfair treatment of the past affect today's women in any way? West has a real problem, and that is the overly passionate pursuit of ideas. Just 60-70 years ago, they were killing scores of Jews in Europe, but now even a rightful criticism of Israel is quickly named anti-semitism. Blacks were largely discriminated against till the end of the civil rights movement, but now racist comments by blacks are not taken nearly as seriously as whites.
It's the present that we're talking about, and in the present, it's men who're the victims.
b) Most employers have what we call, performance based compensation. The Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, that you mentioned, is flawed n that sense. It forces the employers to pay the women as much as men. So in a hypothetical scenario where a woman's male counterpart is due for a raise, he would not get a raise till she gets a raise as well. In some case, both would not get a raise owing to the tying down. Whereas, a woman's perfromance based raise is not tied with her male counterparts, and she is due for a raise, she would get it right away? Equal rights,? yeah right!
Re: The Systematic Degradation of Men's Rights (MEN)
aurat raaj avay hi avay...
PS : why should i be the only one suffer?
Lets agree to disagree then. Looks like you did not read my post carefully. I said we have to be FAIR and not "positively discriminant". Now if we are FAIR and that LADY DR is deserving, she will get selected anyway.
If we go by your logic we may end up giving seat to INCOMPETENT lady doctor. I'd choose COMPETENT male DR any day instead of ending up on operation table of incompetent female DR who got the job JUST because we want to get rid of past discrimination.
Disagree, understand my point! A vast talented pool of the fairer sex will never be eligible for selection.
Yeah so you may end up with a incompetent male Dr or worse with no Dr at all. I did factor in your argument hence this is why I am emphasising it's for the *long term good. *
Fairness comes with equal input, therefore we need to be proactive to quicken the pace of change otherwise it may be a never ending wait.
Re: The Systematic Degradation of Men's Rights (MEN)
The guys have a point here. From my own experience, I've seen that women can be given more opportunity for advancement esp in male-dominated fields just for the fact that they are a rarity and it makes the company look good to have females in male-dominated jobs. I worked on wall street, supporting and building trading floors. And I was so very dedicated to my work and doing a good job. Invariably, I always got the biggest bonus and raise of anyone in my group. Yet, I was not the smartest, I was not the best problem-resolver, innovator etc. And I always felt really bad about that. I always dressed professionally and kept a very calm, professional and positive attitude so the traders would request me to fix their computers over the others who were mostly nerdy-type guys. Who I often contacted for assistance to fix the problem.
Sure, I earned my living...but I can't help thinking that I earned it at the expense of some more qualified than me and only because of my gender. I honestly dont think I'd have earned as much if I were a guy.
Aside from that, I think we should be thankful also...that the bra-burning feminist types hot that glass ceiling pretty fast. When you're so focused on womens rights etc...you arent focused on doing a good job.
Re: The Systematic Degradation of Men's Rights (MEN)
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Re: The Systematic Degradation of Men's Rights (MEN)
Mamaof3 it has been speculated if there were more female traders the current market crash would never have happened. We need to temper man's testosterone fuelled egotism. I don't mean to be rude but your mere calm and collected presence was enough to justify your salary and position. More female traders and the whole trading floor would benefit.