THE STATUS OF THE SUNNAH IN ISLAM

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Not anymore pukka desi…no its not.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/wink.gif

Here is what i have to say and how important is the sunnah in islam.

The Sunnah was written in the time of the Umayyad Caliph Omar Ibn Abdul Aziz, known as the fifth rightly guided caliph. He should not be confused with Omar Ibn al-Khattab, the Second Caliph after prophet Muhammad, any person who rejects the Sunnah of prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is a Kafir. There are numerous places in the Qur’an that clearly state that we (Muslims) should obey Allah and His prophet (pbuh). Therefore, if we don’t obey prophet Muhammad (pbuh), we are actually disobeying Allah and the Qur’an. You can easily corner a person and ask him: how do you pray? The Qur’an didn’t tell us how many times and how many Rikaa. The authenticated Sunnah is an integral part of every MuslimÕs belief because the Quran itself orders the Muslims to follow it and abide by it. This is documented in several passages in the QurÕan such as in: Surah al-Imran (3) verse 32, and 132, Surah an-Nisaa (4) verse 59, Surah al-Maidah (5) verse 92, and in many other passages. Hence, while there is a clear differentiation between the Quran (which is divine and a revelation) and the Sunnah, a Muslim cannot disregard the Sunnah because he/she would be violating the Quranic order. In addition, the Sunnah clarifies many aspects of the QurÕan itself. For example, many rituals, such as prayers, fasting, pilgrimage etc. are explained in details in the Sunnah in such a way that without it, it would be unclear how to perform them. Also, there are many legal rulings which govern the MuslimsÕ behavior that are extracted completely from the Sunnah. These include ethical, social, political, economic, and family relations. Of course, the authenticated Sunnah also stands as the second most important source of Islamic Jurisprudence after the QurÕan. If you need more information about this topic, either consult your local Imam, read a specialized book about this topic. Thank you, have a good gupshup.

HARooN

HARooN>>>Chorr chori se jaye…haira-pehrii se na jaye<<< :slight_smile:

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asalaam o alaykum!

This is in response to 'Faceup'. I was away for couple of days that is why my reply appears after a little while. This is a long post, but I had no choice as 'Faceup' had pointed out whatever antiIslamic propaganda he had ever come across. So please bear with me.

Faceup....>>Really, Is Rajm or Stoning in the Quran? Can you show me where?<<

This is a very detailed and debatable topic. But it will boil down to the fact that yes ayat e rajm is no where in Qura~n. However, the punishment for adultry, is stoning to death, as this is what was prescribed by the Prophet, pbuh and this is what was practiced by Khulafa Rashdeen. But there is strong evidence that aya rajm was some aya of Old testiment. As this is what Prophet pronounced when, he gave verdict for the two Jews who came to him for similar case. May I remind you that Qura~n says:

"your companion is neither astray nor being mislead nor does he say of his desire. It is no less than inspiration sent down him." (53:2-4)

Faceup...>>1) The worth of a man's life is equal to the market value of 100 camels or 200 cows and that of a woman is equal to half of the man's, 50 camels or 100 cows.<<

Wrong! And may I ask you which shariah law is this?

Faceup...>>2) The blood money or dieh, a sum paid to the next of kin as compensation for the murder of a relative, is twice as much in the case of a murdered man as in the case of a woman.<<

Wrong again. Dieh is awarded as per the networth of the person murdered and there is no issue of sexes in it. Where do you get these infos??

Faceup...>>3) The number of witnesses required to prove a crime is higher if the witnesses are female or 2 just men. Female’s testimony in a court of law is equal to half of that of a man.<<

True. Qura~n says:

"And call to witness, from among your men, two witnesses. And if two men be not (at hand) then a man and two women, of each as ye apporve as witnesses, so that if the one erreth (through forgetfulness) the other will remember." (2:228)

You must realize that this does not concern human rights, but the emphasis is with the charge imposed on the accused, which the witnesses have to fulfil in accordance with Qura~n words:

"Hide not testimony. He who hides it, verily his heart is sinful." (2:283)

Accordingly, woman is exempted from the obligation of testifying, the heavy responsiblity of which rest on men alone. The modern science does reflect some evidence that woman is more exposed to forgetfulness, absent minded as to the precisions of the facts to which she bears witness. But if you care to ponder over this verse, there is nothing that could do wrong to the consideration of woman only, wherever it is more expedient to call her alone as a witness. This verse is not to fan any controversy of sexes but surely to gaurantee the human rights of the accused. It is fortunate of a woman to be exempt. But Islamic doctrine of justice can only be understood when one rids himself from the egotistic mind possessed by its 'maleness' and 'femalness'. You must understand the equality in law does not imply mathematical equility.

Faceup...>>4) In most countries, she can’t vote or get elected to office. Females are banned from studies such as engineering, agriculture, archaeology, restoration of the historic monuments and handicrafts, and many other fields. They are not allowed to become a judge.<<

Wrong. Pakistan is a Muslim country and yet it had a female prime minister. Indonesia is another readily citable example. A woman is the head of opposition and a second in command too. Turky, another Muslim country has woman justices. There have been numerous educationist and skilled woman thru out the Islamic history.

Faceup...>>5) Women/females inherit only half as much as male siblings.<<

True. It may appear as frustration to you but the heavy responsibility incumbent upon the man to assume the sustenance of the family lies solely on man and not on woman. If you are responsible for your household, than obviously you have to get a bigger share of wealth also. Woman is to stay inside the home, while it is man who is to work in the factories. It is very logical n fair.

Faceup...>>6) Women cannot get custody of her children. Even if their father dies. In the case of divorce or death she has to surrender her children to their father and/or his family. She cannot claim an alimony.<<

Wrong. The children stay with mom unless there is a danger to them from her character, until they are mature. But they belong to the father, no doubt, afterall they are his seed. Are you carrying your mother's last name or your father's? I think your father's as you are his progency. Or your children do they take your last name or your wife's? This practice is not limited to Islam, but all over the world, the children belong to the father. Yes Islam does provide alimony.

Faceup...>>7) Woman cannot travel, work, go to college, join organizations, even visit her friends and relatives without my father or husband's permission. She must live where her husband desires.<<

Wrong! Absolutely absured.

Faceup...>>8) A woman can get arrested, beaten, and sometimes even executed if she wear make-up, nylons, bright colors and specifically the color of red. Normally, she cannot choose her mate and is not permitted to divorce him if things did not work out.

Wrong. You must get your head examined.

Faceup...>>9) According to Islamic laws: the most suitable time for a girl to get married is the time when the girl can have her first menstrual period in her husband's house rather than her father's. She has to meet all her husband's desires including the sexual ones. And if she refuses he has the right to deny her food, shelter, and all of life's necessities.<<

Wrong again. Please qoute the Qura~nic verse or any hadith in support of your above mentioned male chauvinistic remark.

Faceup...>>10) A woman’s husband can divorce her without her knowledge and by the Islamic law he is required to support her for only 100 days. And if he dies, she is entitled to 1/8 of his Estate. A husband is not required to provide her with alimony.<<

Another nonsense. I think you are reading too many anti islamic books.

Faceup...>>11) A woman can only ask for divorce if her husband is impotent, if he does not have sex with her at least one night in every forty nights, and if he refuses to provide her with a minimum standard of living.<<

I don't know about the 'one in forty night' ruling. But yes no party should be impotent or frigid, and both are to provide one n another with emotional and husband is to provide financial comfort. But this ruling is for both man and woman.

Faceup...>>12) Her husband can have four permanent wives and if he is from Shi'i sect, he can have as many temporary wives as he wants.<<

Islam encourages ONE wife. Islam never encourages polygamy, no more than it instituted it. And it is well known that, even among those who forbid it, polygamy is still in practice, in a concealed way, causing much material, social, and moral damage to husbands, wives and children. That is why Islam brought remedy. It must be noted that, as it is evident the 'new wife' wilfully accepts polygamy, to beocme a legitimate spouse, She freely determines her option, to save herself from shame. To deprive her of this choice would obviously affect her right to become a legitimate wife. For your kind information, the first wife has a privilege that while signing the contract of marriage, she can demand divorce, if the husband ever contemplates a second marriage without her consent.

Faceup...>>13) In Islam, the age of majority for a girl is 9 years and for a boy is 15 years. This means that a 9 year old girl and a 15 year old boy are considered to have the same level of maturity. Now, if girls reach maturity six years earlier than boys, then why did God place men in charge of women? Was there something wrong with God's Judgment?<<

Says who? Where is this written?

Faceup...>>14) In Islam, if a 6 or 7 year old girl is raped by an adult man, she will be the one that gets punished. It is her fault because she provoked it. The parents then will burn or kill her because she has dishonored the family.<<

You are talking about 'honor killing'. But just because it has been practiced in some Muslim countries, does not mean that it is found in Islam. And for you to come on these public boards and assert these allegation is nothing but a reflection of your perpetual agenda. But Allah knows how to protect this beatiful deen and will inshaAllah disgrace those who try to malign Islam. You are here to demonise and diabolise Islam and trying so hopelessly to portray it as an evil force.

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Salafi, Haroon, Pukka, Bayh, etc:

GREAT DISCUSSION, BROTHERS!

Re: Haroon:
I never said the Sunnah are not important. I say - the Sunnah is a GUIDE, a point of reference; It should not be used as the only meaning/interpretation to the Quran, as has become the norm in Islam today.

The problem when you do this is: Sunnah reflects the 7th century and if we make Sunnah = Quran then we re-live the 7th century.

Re: Salafi:
You mention a couple of 'controversial' verse re:women and posed a very important question of 'reasonably interpreting' these in equitably manner.

Sure, Salafi - in Quran there also exists verses that preach equity towards women; I am quoting these from the thread that masooma had started. NOTE, these verses and its significance is quoted verbatim from Masooma's thread (Jazaak Allah):

i)She is equal to man in bearing personal and common responsibilities and in receiving rewards for her deeds:
O mankind! Verily We have created your from a single (pair) of a male and a female,m and made you into nations and tribes that you may know each other... (Qur'an, 49:13; cf. 4:1).

ii) She is equal to man in the pursuit of education and knowledge:
And their Lord has accepted (their prayers) and answered them (saying): 'Never will I cause to be lost the work of any of you, be he male or female; you are members, one of another... (3:195; cf 9:71;33:35-36;66:19-21).

iii) She is entitled to freedom of expression as much as man is.It is reported in the Qur'an and history that woman not only expressed her opinion freely but also argued and participated in serious discussions with the Prophet himself as well as with other Muslim leaders (Qur'an, 58:1-4; 60:10-12).

Back to the question that Salafi posed - How to interpret Quran with equity:

It depends upon the Religious Authority. The Caliphate used to be the Religious Authority for Ahl as Sunnah. If the Caliph wished that Women should be given more 'rights' then he would have legislated & guided by placing more emphasis & weight upon the Quranic verses that show equity in such interpretations and not pay weight upon the controversial ones.

After all, the decisions on women, for example, should be viwed/made in context to 'all' the proof of Allah, including the hadith of our prophet(s) where he says: Heaven lies at the feet of the mother.

I hope this answers your question.

RE:Baykhatr

The list of Inequities in the Sharia'h laws that you are questioning have been taken from both the Shia & Sunni sources.

The Shariat applies only under Islamic State; so, why do you cite Indonesia and Pakistan of Benazir's time that did not rule by shariat.

If shariat is so equitable then why no alimony for women who are divorced? How only maintenance for only the period of idaat or 100 days?

If Rajm doesn't exist in the Quran and that is what I asked you to show me; then why do you persist in quoting from Sunnah and the Book of the Old Testament - abrogated by the Final Revelation.

The dieh or blood money, worth of man and woman's life, witness provisions are from shia sources of Islamic Iran. The POINT is women is seen as HALF in the Sharia'h laws of both shia & sunni-ism; do you disagree with this?

Similarly, how a women dresses, her educational persuits, her career are all dictated & laid down for her in the sharia't and this all reflects 7th century sunnah. Pls refer to my response to Haroon & Salafi above.

The examples that you, rather vociferously, reject or #7, 8 & 9 are from Shia Iran sources. These are all in the shariat which mirrors the Sunnah which has been made EQUAL to the Quran.

I appreciate the points that you have raised but may I ask that you kindly stay focused:
I am stating that shariat is 100% from the Sunnah and Sunnah has been made Equal or even superior to the Quran, as in the case of Rajm.

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faceup,

faceup says>>If the Caliph wished that Women should be given more 'rights' then he would have legislated & guided by placing more emphasis & weight upon the Quranic verses that show equity in such interpretations and not pay weight upon the controversial ones<<

You see, in the religion of Islaam, there is no "If the caliph wishes". The Caliph of the muslims must stick to the bounds set by Allah. At the time of the Messenger(saw), a group of people tried to persuade the Messenger(saw), not cut the hand of certain woman, who had stolen, because of her high status in society. But the response was, that had that woman been his own daughter, he would still have do carry out the punishment.

You are missing the point. I have stated ayahs which are talking about specific situations and the commands are very specific. There can be no room for controversy. I'll state them again.

TWO WOMEN WITNESS IN PLACE OF ONE MAN

"And get two witnesses out of your own men. And if there are not two men (available), then a man and two women, such as you agree for witnesses, so that if one of them (two women) errs, the other can remind her...." (2:282)

Does this sound controversial. Didn't Allah Himself create the man and woman. Doesn't he know better than anyone else regarding their abilities, the differences between them. Does the Caliph have a better understanding, when Allah is commanding clearly to have two women in place of one man.

INHERITANCE, MALE HAS TWICE AS MUCH AS FEMALE

"Allâh commands you as regards your children's (inheritance); to the male, a portion equal to that of two females; if (there are) only daughters, two or more, their share is two thirds of the inheritance; if only one, her share is half. For parents, a sixth share of inheritance to each if the deceased left children; if no children, and the parents are the (only) heirs, the mother has a third; if the deceased left brothers or (sisters), the mother has a sixth. (The distribution in all cases is) after the payment of legacies he may have bequeathed or debts. (4:11)

"to the male, a portion equal to that of two females". Does this sound controversial. Didn't Allah say at the begining of the ayah "Allâh commands you". If you are going to do away with ayahs as clear and specific as these, then which parts of Qur'an are you actually following.

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Allah promised to protect the Quran till the day of judgement no such thing was said about sunnah. Haddis may not exist in the true form today they may have been changed as they were compiled by different people. Sunnah is important but if there is some difference between the words of Qurran and Haddis or somethings are not clear or controversial we must follow the word of Quran. Prophet's life no doubt was according to teachings of Quran. We can follow it but if not clear we must seek guidance from Quran

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Faceup....>>I appreciate the points that you have raised but may I ask that you kindly stay focused:<<

stay focused? and why does't it apply to you? you are trying to creat some kind of rift here between shia and sunnis or wahabi or some kind of secreterian verbal voilence. It is because of people like you who suffer from lack of dignity, Muslims are neither feared not respected. It is most certainly because of you that the curse of ethnicity, linguistic and regional nationalism has taken over the spirit of Islamic brotherhood. The unity of feeling, mind and purpose no longer exist.

You keep up your the language of your masters but as Husain Shaheed Suhrawardy (1956-57)once said: "zero plus zero plus zero plus zero is after all equal to zero." I have come to the conclusion that no matter how one explains anything to you, you are bent upon repeating the same lyrics as taught to you.

Your behaviour reminds me of a story. The leg of a baby elephant is tied with a rope to a wooden post planted in the ground. The rope confines the baby elephant to an area determined by the length of the rope. Initially the baby elephant tries to break the rope, but the rope is too strong. The baby elephant "learns" that it can't break the rope.

When the elephant grows up into a ten-ton colossus, it could easily break the same rope. But because it "learned" that it couldn't break the rope when it was a baby, it believes that it still can't break the rope, so it doesn't even try. So the largest elephant can be confined by the puniest little rope.

My salam to you. You need not to respond to this post as I cant discuss anything anymore with you. May Allah give you some hidayat.

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faceup says:

[quote]
Islam must based on "REASON"! For followers of Sunnah, they have no choice. They have to base their practise of the religion 100% on the 7th century practise of the prophet(saw) or his Sunnah.
[/quote]

Who decides what constitutes'REASON'? Hilary Clinton?

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salam salafi!
its really a nice post to discuss. i believe thatQuran is a book of God and Sunnah is a way how our beloved prophet led his life. my dear friend i have live 14 years of my life or should i say i was born in SaudiaArabia, and i have learned every thing as it was possible for me about islam. my sis if u wana to escape from the evildream of KABR then we must have to recite our HOLY QURAN every day cuz most of it tell us and forbid us evilness.Quran tell us about what gonna happen on the day of KIYAMMAT and who will go to JANNAT and JAHANNUM, what should v have to do if v wana to be among JANNATTI’S .
Allah has sent many messeges to uor beloved prophet in a way of QURAN and Allah has told him to pass it over to us!!! and as u said that in quran Allah has said that listen to our beloved prophet , thats true cuz he has suffered from many hardships to spread the messege of our God.basically prophet had said exactly what God has told him to do thats y v should read and recite HOLY QURAN and read HADITH’S.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smile.gif

jeette_raho bache

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Those who follow the Quran are following the Prophet Muhammed (s), those who are following the alleged Hadith and Sunnah are NOT following the Prophet but following those who wrote these books, like Bukhari, Muslim, etc.

The prophet himself warned:
"Do not write anything from me EXCEPT QURAN. Anyone who wrote anything other than the Quran shall erase it."

" the messenger of God ordered us NEVER to write anything of his hadith."

The four guided Khalifas who ruled the Muslim Umma (nation) after the death of the Prophet Muhammed, respected the order of the Prophet and prohibited the writing and collection of Hadiths.

This prohibition of hadiths was continued until Omar Ibn Abdel-Aziz permitted the writing of Hadiths and Sunna, then many books and (Kararees) appeared containing Hadiths.

In these books of sunnahs/hadiths a NEW RELIGION was written that dominated over the Quran despite the claim for the opposite. In writing these books, the authors did not care if the hadiths they are writing contradict the Quran or the other Hadiths or the common sense (REASON). In reality, they fulfilled the promise of God in [al-An`am 6:112-113:

"We have permitted the enemies of every prophet - human and jinn devils - to inspire in each other FANCY WORDS (e.g.: HADITH & SUNNAH), in order to deceive. Had your Lord willed, they would not have done it. You shall disregard them and their FABRICATIONS. This is to let the minds of those who do not believe in the Hereafter listen to such FABRICATIONS, and accept them, and thus expose their real convictions. " [6:112-113]

Today, orthodox Islam (sunni & shia)instead of DISREGARDING THE FABRICATIONS follow those FANCY WORDS of sunnah to the 't', word per word, and literally - such is their abomination & their arrogance.

May Allah guide us all to the path of sirat al mustaqeem!

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Remember the 2 weighty things that the prophet(pbuh)talked about at Ghadeer-e-Khum that shia-sunni disagree upon:

1) Is it Quran & Imammat
or
2) Quran & Sunnah ?

The sunni chose Quran & Sunnah while the shias chose Quran & Ahle Bayt Imams.

1)If the sunnis were aware of what you post that the prophet disallowed his hadiths to be written down then WHY did the sunnis choose to follow sunnah?

2)If shias insisted on Imams and they did until the shia ithna ashari imams occulted and they gradually slipped to following sunna as well?

Faceup - your best contribution to-date that to follow Sunnah is to follow 7th century which is where Islam is at today - 7th century, in thoughts & practise!

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Abdulmalik,

Re: shias: Maybe, Massoma should try to answer the part that you raise re: shias; after all, she has been tooting her horn a lot. Masooma, could ya answer the points raised by malick; or, is this beyond your understanding?

I was expecting more people to interact as this topic has potential to be a very insightful discussion.

Re: the sunnis; well, we were wrong re: sunnah! That's why they are in a hurry to "forcibly" convert everybody to their views on the sunnah. If there is no dissension then who's there to remind them of their effrontery & violation of their covenants to the Final Revelation.

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faceup,

trying to change the topic now, are you. Couldn't answer the questions that were posed to you.

But we'll refute your argument anyway. The prohibition of writing down the hadith was early on in the mission of the Messenger(saw), in order to avoid confusion with Qur'an and what the Prophet(saw) prohibited was writing the Qur'an and Hadith on the same piece of parchment. For the Qur'an is the speech of Allah, to be recited (e.g. prayers), whereas the Hadith is not.
But this initial prohibition did not negate the fact that the hadith were not to be memorized and followed.

In fact there are many narrations of the Prophet(saw) ordering his companions to write down his sayings. Here are just a few.

When Allah gave victory to His Apostle over the people of Mecca, Allah's Apostle stood up among the people and after glorifying Allah, said, "Allah has prohibited fighting in Mecca and has given authority to His Apostle and the believers over it, so fighting was illegal for anyone before me, and was made legal for me for a part of a day, and it will not be legal for anyone after me. Its game should not be chased, its thorny bushes should not be uprooted, and picking up its fallen things is not allowed except for one who makes public announcement for it, and he whose relative is murdered has the option either to accept a compensation for it or to retaliate." Al-'Abbas said, "Except Al-Idhkhir, for we use it in our graves and houses." Allah's Apostle said, "Except Al-Idhkhir." Abu Shah, a Yemenite, stood up and said, "O Allah's Apostle! Get it written for me." Allah's Apostle said, "Write it for Abu Shah." (The sub-narrator asked Al-Auza'i): What did he mean by saying, "Get it written, O Allah's Apostle?" He replied, "The speech which he had heard from Allah's Apostle ." (Muslim & Bukhari(3/613)).

So the Prophet(saw) said: "Write it for Abu Shah."

Abu Hurayrah said: "There is none among the companions of the Prophet who has narrated more Hadiths than I except 'Abdullah bin Amr (bin Al-'As) who used to write them and I never did the same." (Bukhari 1/113)

So the companion Abdullah bin Amr used to write them down, while Abu Hurayrah chose not to, for he preferred memorization alone.

Answer the questions which were raised above.

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salafi,

Using hadiths to prove points about hadiths, are ya?

Obviously, the wahabis believe in the Hanbali hadiths that were later usurped by Ibn Tamiyyah. Salfi - your wahabis stand at the very deep end of ignorance. Your position is based, not on Reason, but ignorance mixed with self-applause.

Here's an example:
Do you know what 'Religious Authority' in Islam means?

If quran is not the domain of religious authority then who is going to guide from the quran? Ibn Tamiyyah? or is it King Faud? Or, is it million & one mullahs?

You question re: the 2 ayas on women were answered that their interpretation depends upon the Religious Authority. Allah speaks in parables. In one case He may appear to be controversial as in the ayas that you refer to; then, He becomes equitable in other ayas, where He talks about man & woman being same.

If you, for example, can pretend that quranic laws are to be based on one aya for all laws pertaing to women then that is why I call your wahabism to be at the depth of ignorance.

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faceup,

says>>Do you know what 'Religious Authority' in Islam means?<<
Ohh, how ignorant I am, please enlighten us with regards to this 'Religious Authority'. Who is our 'Religious Authority' today. Where is it derived from and tell us how the companions of the Prophet(saw) applied this 'Religious Authority', since you praised the four Caliphs, and said they obeyed the Prophet(saw) correctly, as you said

The four guided Khalifas who ruled the Muslim Umma (nation) after the death of the Prophet Muhammed, respected the order of the Prophet and prohibited the writing and collection of Hadiths.<<

In one case He may appear to be controversial as in the ayas that you refer to; then, He becomes equitable in other ayas, where He talks about man & woman being same.<<
Really, tell us which verses of the Qur'an overrides the two mentioned verses and tell us where Allah says that the "man & woman being same". Actually there is no such ayah, rather Allah talks in certain ayahs, about equality between the man & woman in certain areas, whereas in others, both men & women have been given different rights, according to the wisdom of Allah. So I suppose, you are going to let women take four husbands and they only have to cover their bodies as much as men have to. And are you going to order the women to start paying the dowery to their husbands, if your 'Religious Authority' decides so.

you, for example, can pretend that quranic laws are to be based on one aya for all laws pertaing to women then that is why I call your wahabism to be at the depth of ignorance.<<
Really, when did I say that, or do you like to think that I say that. I only mentioned to you two laws and provided an ayah for each one, and there are hundreds of more laws which can be found directly in the Qur'an. Whereas you want to get rid of these laws and base them upon something which you twist and the type of ayah ("man & woman being same") you mentioned doesn't even exist.

35

salafi,

I am not surprised by your “continued” insistence that women in the Quran are not EQUAL to men and have rejected all my arguements to otherwise or man and woman are Equal before the eyes of Allah.

Allah, in Quran, speaks in similitudes & parables. The Quran also states, rather categorically, that the most Quran can only be understood by ‘select people’ chosen by God and this is the ‘Religious Authority’ that I constantly been referring to.

You have rejected any ‘Religious Authority’ on the pretext that it conjures conflict with following Allah. If that is the case then do not forget Prophet Muhammed(s)was also a Religious Authority and by following his Sunnah, you attribute him as Partner of Allah.

Here’s a link that speaks about EQUALITY of men & women before the eyes of Allah:
http://www.jannah.org/sisters/statuswomen.html

Finally, a word of advise to you & other readers: Islam manifests in many ways so if you come across a creed of Islam that emphasises hate towards women & others then you’re better off dumping that creed and opting for one that is more balanced in its teachings.

36

faceup,

says>>I am not surprised by your "continued" insistence that women in the Quran are not EQUAL to men and have rejected all my arguements to otherwise or man and woman are Equal before the eyes of Allah.<<
got nothing else left to say, going round in circles and circles. We have always said that men & women are equal before Allah. The distinction before Allah is not between man & woman, but between the rigteous and the sinful. This doesn't negate the fact, that Allah has given both the man & woman different roles in this life. So many of their actions including those of worship are different.

You have rejected any 'Religious Authority' on the pretext that it conjures conflict with following Allah. If that is the case then do not forget Prophet Muhammed(s)was also a Religious Authority and by following his Sunnah, you attribute him as Partner of Allah.<<
This is very interesting. We have never rejected the 'Authority' of the Messenger(saw). But we do reject the 'Religious Authority' of every tom, dick & harry, who raises his ugly head every now and then and claims that he is appointed by Allah. One of the false claimers in recent times was Mirza Qadiani. And very recently there was another called Rashad Khalifa, who claimed amongst many other absurd things that the following verse was referring to him:
"We have sent you (Rashad) as a deliverer of good news, as well as a warner." (25:56)

37

salafi,

Since Allah made sure that Islam wouldn't be without a 'Leader' or 'Religious Authority'
and, you are finally warming up to my message of the need for Religious Authority in Islam.

I agree with you that - too many have risen to claim that 'Religious Authority of Islam', Like you say:

"But we do reject the 'Religious Authority' of every tom, dick & harry, who raises his ugly head every now and then and claims that he is appointed by Allah"

All of then have made claims did so because they realized that without 'religious authority' Islam is headless corpse and quran is a book of parables unintelligible to most.

Allah & Quran is very clear on to who that 'religious authority' belongs to.

Salafi- whose Religious authority do you follow?

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Salafi- whose Religious authority do you follow?<<

hey faceup, if there was one thing that stood out clear from all my statements, it was the whose Religious authority I follow.

The Qur'an was the word of Allah, revealed through Gabriel(as) to the Messenger Muhammad(saw). The Prophet(saw) taught this Qur'an to us and explained it by various means, including his own practice of the Religion. This teaching of his has been collected in books by many scholars of Islaam, including Imaam Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Dawood, at-Tirmidhi, etc. the same people who narrated the Qur'an to us. Or do you have a copy of the Qur'an which was given to you directly by the Messenger(saw) or by Allah. So this is what I follow, the Book of Allah and the Sunnah of Messenger(saw).

NOW, WHAT IS YOUR RELIGIOUS AUTHORITY?

BTW, more info on Mr. Khalifa coming soon, Insha'Allah

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So you 're saying that your 'Religious Authority' is the 7th century Sunnah of the Prophet(s)! You are both right & wrong!

After the Prophet (saw), the 'Religious Authority' for the Sunni-ism were the Caliphs, like Hazrat'Abu Bakr(ra) and others? But after the abolishment of the Caliphate, the Sunnah did become the defacto 'Religious Authority' of Sunni Islam.

OK! But sunnah was not authorized to be written by the prophet and they were collected 200 years after prophet's death by bukhari & company. Some scholars claim, very rightly, that almost 99% of the hadiths were lies & fabrications. When you say you follow Sunnah of the prophet - you 're actually following Bukhari & Co.

And, how can 7th century acts & sayings or Sunnah offer solutions in the 21st century and into the next millenieum, when it has FAILED miserably to guide the ummah to-date?

Wait, what about the quran? Quran is for the book-shelf. The Sunnah, as written by Bukhari & Co., has usurped the quran. Since, without a "particular religious authority" to interpret & guide, the quran is better off in the shelf!

Hip-hip hooray for the followers of the sunnah! The sunnah of Bukhari & Co. for all eternity!

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Who/what is your 'Religious Authority', or are you your own 'Religious Authority'.?