The sad tale of FC soldiers in Waziristan and Balochistan

The news on massacre of 7 soldiers in Waziristan and countless injured from ambush from Taliban fighters is sobering. Likewise landmines and rocket attacks have been taking toll on FC in Balochistan almost daily. For many of these jawans from poor localities even an injury can destroy their lives as it steals them any means of livelihood that requires physical labor. Without going into the politics of why and what they are fighting in their own country, I want to know why so many of them are needlessly dieing?

I have seen pictures of them in shalwar kameez riding around exposed in pickup trucks with no body armor and the few helmets that have seen as leftover from WWI. This is simply criminal negligence on the part of the army for making these poor soldiers ride around as targets for militants with little training on how to deal with ambushes by battle hardened Islamic and tribal fighters. PAF is ready to buy multi-million $ F-16’s that it will likely never use, but these ground troops cannot get basic APCs, bullet proof jackets, helmets and urban warfare training while they die for Musharraf’s glory? Who will remember these people who gave up their lives for an uncaring military regime?

Re: The sad tale of FC soldiers in Waziristan and Balochistan

Yes I share your sentiments. I mourn the loss of FC soldiers who are mostly from the brave Afridi tribe.

Waziris have never been good soldiers due to their wild and tribal nature.

Yes we should all write to the Pak government to protect these brae soldiers. I also appeal to the overseas Pakistanis to help us get the body armor.

p.s. Afridis are defending their country against the Talibanic anarchists. Please avoid statements like "Musharraf's glory".

Re: The sad tale of FC soldiers in Waziristan and Balochistan

Inna Lillah wa Inna ilaihi Rajoun ..may Allah protect the families of the FC men who have passed away.

anti is right it's not for Mushs glory these poor men have been made to die for amrikas glory..Mush just followed his masters bidding.

I remember on this forum some 2 years ago when this operation started..and how I warned about what a tragic way the government went ahead and bungled the whole operation from the very beginning..now two years on we have a mini quagmire going on..Mush has not appeased his master (and I am sure the only person anti salutes) Bush "the bahadur" and he pointlessly made our civilians, soldiers and paramilitary troops fight the wrong battle at the wrong time. The legacy of this mistake on Pakistan ..like Zias legacy of kalashinkov culture and drugs is something I do not look forward to seeing.

Re: The sad tale of FC soldiers in Waziristan and Balochistan

Pakistan spends substantial portion of their budget towards defense and such is the plight of our soliders.. sad

Re: The sad tale of FC soldiers in Waziristan and Balochistan

More than a year later, we see the same situation with soldiers in open pickup trucks being blown into pieces by suicide bombers.

Re: The sad tale of FC soldiers in Waziristan and Balochistan

God bless them...

Re: The sad tale of FC soldiers in Waziristan and Balochistan

Open pickups are the best way to quickly transport soldiers form point A to point B. APCs are used only in close proximity to the actual scene of operation. They are bulky, slow and they guzzle fuel like anything.

However I do see the necessity to use air power especially cobras. Pakistan should also try to acquire some C-130 based specter gunships.

Suicide attacks are a menace that we will suffer from for a long long time. When a person straps himself with a bombs, he is the most difficult thing to detect and stop. The same goes with IEDs.

We'll see the loss of our brave soldiers for the next 3 to 5 years. But they will be spilling blood to save us the civilian Pakistanis.

Re: The sad tale of FC soldiers in Waziristan and Balochistan

You make body armour sound so cheap.

The United Kingdom spends 15 times more money than Pakistan on its military, has fewer troops in combat zones, and STILL cannot afford body armour for them.

In other words, despite spending more money on less men, the UK, one of the world's richest countries, cannot afford body armour for most of its troops.

What makes you then think that a poverty-ridden country like Pakistan can do so?

Re: The sad tale of FC soldiers in Waziristan and Balochistan

And even if Pakistan spent $32 million on body armour… see what the result would be.

New body armour issued to British troops in Afghanistan and Iraq is so bulky that many are forced to take it off to fire their weapons, the Daily Mail can reveal.

Soldiers cannot fit their assault rifles to their shoulders or look through the sights properly when wearing the kit.

The Ministry of Defence has spent £16million on the new Osprey Improved Combat Body Armour which is meant to improve the odds of surviving bullets or shrapnel.

It covers the front and back of the torso with wider and thicker ceramic plates than in previous armour vests.

**But troops under fire have chosen to rip out the plate inserts and throw them away, judging that freedom to move and fire their weapon is more likely to save their lives than thicker armour.

Royal Marines serving in Afghanistan have given a scathing assessment of the new kit, claiming it put them at “greater risk” of becoming casualties.
**

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What could possibly give you more freedom to move and fire than shalwaar kameez? Even Britain’s elite marines complain that body armour is more of a hindrance than help. Now continuing with the story…

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The political fall-out from his death proved highly damaging, and the MoD has now spent some £16million sending 16,000 upgraded Osprey body armour sets to Afghanistan and Iraq for infantry troops, along with an even heavier “Kestrel” version with extra arm and neck armour for soldiers in the vulnerable “top cover” position on patrol vehicles.

Each set of Osprey armour costs around £1,000 - compared with just £167 for older sets which had smaller ceramic plates to protect the vital organs.

**But after putting Osprey to the test in battle, many troops are quietly now ignoring orders to wear it. **

One Marine told the Mail: "We’ve had situations where as soon as we’ve got into a contact [firefight with enemy], guys are pulling out the plates and throwing them away. That’s what I did.

"It’s hard to run for cover wearing Osprey. They’re heavy, but more importantly they’re so bulky you can’t even bend down.

"Worst of all you can’t fit your weapon to your shoulder. The front plate is so thick and in just the wrong place so the rifle butt slips off the edge, and you can’t get your eye to the sight.

"So you’ve got an infantryman who can’t hold his rifle correctly or aim properly.

**"Who designed this thing? Someone behind a desk?

“They’re clearly worried about casualties, which is fine, but it’s as though someone who’s never been on the ground has decided to push this stuff out to all the lads.” **

Re: The sad tale of FC soldiers in Waziristan and Balochistan

UK is not at war in its country, it's soldiers that go to Afghanistan and Iraq, do wear body armour I believe? And we can give our soldiers armour vests without the heavier ceramic plates, it's still better than nothing and at least will protect against shrapnel. We need to set our priorities straight and not buy expense weapons that we will never use (F-16, submarines etc.) and invest in not only body armour but some type of armoured car with tires instead of tracks that is rugged and fairly affordable. Not fool proof but this would limit the number of deaths.

And soldiers always complain, so I wouldn't use that as the only reason to not have heavy body armour. The US soldiers do wear it after all.

Re: The sad tale of FC soldiers in Waziristan and Balochistan

I am very sorry for these FC soldiers who are bearing the brunt of this War on Terror. May Allah accept their Shahdats.

Re: The sad tale of FC soldiers in Waziristan and Balochistan

where is the billion dollars a year going which is coming as reimbursement costs. why cannot it be used for the above mentioned purposes rather than buying mercedes and other toys

Re: The sad tale of FC soldiers in Waziristan and Balochistan

Generals should have thought about this years ago but they were too busy being comfortable in their "peace" deal with terrorists.

Re: The sad tale of FC soldiers in Waziristan and Balochistan

What about proper helmets instead of ghans phoos jute etc. helmets that even pakistani army soldiers wear so forget FC.
I think it is the mentality which is that individual’s lives aren’t thought of as that importment as there is a big population growth. Maybe it is seen as balancing the population somehow?

And UK I believe has suffered from defence cuts so that is where their problems migh lie. If what you say was completely true then we would have seen more UK troops die in afghanistan and iraq [ok it is a “picnic” up till now for british in basra comparatively but still they have firefights with the odd local militias].

Re: The sad tale of FC soldiers in Waziristan and Balochistan

This thread should be put as a sticky.

Re: The sad tale of FC soldiers in Waziristan and Balochistan

How did I not reply to this earlier.... the pictures you see of soldiers in berets rather than helmets reflects what is often worn when not in immediate danger.

When you wear a helmet, you can't lose heat effectively from your head since they are non-breathable. When standing around for days and hours outdoors soldiers don't wear helmets - they wear berets/hats.

When combat starts or action is expected (ie on patrol in hostile areas), the helmets go on. When standing around at a checkpoint where no fighting has gone on for days, soldiers switch to more comfortable equipment.

If people like you had their way the poor FC would have to perform their duties so heavily armoured all the time that they would pass out from the heat!

The best-protected soldier is useless if his protection is giving him heat exhaustion.

And despite budgets cuts, the UK still spends much more money on equipment per soldier than Pakistan does. So the comparison still holds true.

Re: The sad tale of FC soldiers in Waziristan and Balochistan

Here is an example. FC soldier in shade, on 14th August, with anti-government activity going on. So the helmet is on.
http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070814/481/qut10208141134

Regular army troops standing around in sun just in case something happens- body armour is on, helmets are off. Makes you less hot.

http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070812/photos_wl_sa_afp/ebd336f987ff4894ad5ca9d96b6f252a

Troops on patrol in sun. Body armour on, helmets off.

http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070810/photos_wl_sa_afp/68e5b6e8d26a30f18cca3b48ca81e980

FC on patrol in trucks. Helmets on, wearing armoured plates on chest.

http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070810/photos_wl_sa_afp/178e8c6239678f8ebde27de83912bf00

http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070810/photos_wl_sa_afp/178e8c6239678f8ebde27de83912bf00

Re: The sad tale of FC soldiers in Waziristan and Balochistan

Those F-16's arnt exactly stopping suicide bombers.

Re: The sad tale of FC soldiers in Waziristan and Balochistan

MadS, all those pictures are of soldiers either wearing WWII steel helmets (useless except for low intensity shrapnel) or no helmets and bullet proof vests that seem to be of medium protection only against 9mm rounds or less. In any case, they should not be in an open truck. That is just plain stupidity.

Do you not think amercian soldiers in Iraq's hot weather suffer from heat exhaustion? And they're not even used too the heat like we are. When a suicide bomber attacks them, do you think they will have time to put on a helmet? When you are on a combat patrol, you are trained to be always ready with full gear on. You don't put your gun or helmet by the side and wait for an attack. Reaction time is critical. I;m sure you know this, so your argument really is very strange.

And that last picture of FC in open trucks is very telling. That's just an easy kill and countless have happened. I don't think the army is serious in winning against taliban with these tactics.

How many of you would be willing to ride in an open truck with that gear in Waziristan or pats of Balochistan? We are living in the worlds of IEDs and suicide bombs. Time for the army to wake up to its own created evil.

Re: The sad tale of FC soldiers in Waziristan and Balochistan

Maybe they plan to drive around in an F-16 in Miranshah?

Really, this is bordering on criminal negligence now.