so the proverbial buck…or in pakistan’s case, rupee. Where does it stop .. i.e. who has final accountability for what happens in a given time period. I mean lets take out agencies and what nots, but in the end who is accountable?
I suggest that whoever is in the top post(s) President/PM/CE/CMLA are ultimately accountable for what happens in their watch, no matter whether opposition was scheming, whether agencies were interfering, international pressures and agendas, whatever.
The reality is in Pakistans context..it's never the man at the tops fault untill he is ousted. Consider how many threads we have about how ZAB was the main person responsible for the separation of East Pakistan. How Musharraf blames a conspiracy for all thats happening now, as did NS and BB in their own times.
You may have heard the story of a Minister during BB's second stint who was asked why he didn't resign after the a major accident occurred..he hummed and hawed and said why should he..to which the example of an Indian Minister was given who took responsibility for a similar accident and resigned. Our learned minister on hearing this lesson of personal responsibility said "what do you think I am..a Hindu?" or words to that effect.
p.s I believe the politicians family in question are now card carrying PML-Q members.
^ just for that story I might vote for that PML(Q) guy. well said. we are not Hindu.
...and it doesn't matter a bit that the guy shirked hid responsibility and gave credit to his counterpart unwiitingly? may be this is why pakistan has gone to to the pits!
its a very simple question, I am not saying who is 'responsible' but who is 'accountable'. My view is that in the end, the ppl holding top office are accountabke. if they feel powerless etc etc then they need to walk away and resign rather than be in a situation where they claim lack of control and thus wash their hands off any accountability.
should that not be the case? Should we not hold Musharraf accountable for the issues of Pakistan under his watch, the tribal areas fiasco, the AQ Khan fiasco, the lal masjid fiasco?
^ yes he should be, just like any other so-called leader for atrocities against whatever size of population.... there is a reason Hazrat Omar RA went on streets secretly in night to see how the 'awam' is doing during his rule and get first hand knowledge of that instead of getting "all is good your honor" response from the subordinates.
Good, so now that we have that squared away. I am assuming that all the other leaders are held to the same standards of 'accountability' for whatever took place during their watch..whether or not they or their supporters claim that they were not in control etc.
^ bhai jan, mera bas chalay to sab ko one-way-ticket-to-the-moon dilaa doon :D... cricket team ki tarah political-ground ki 'rebuilding' shuru kartey hayn.
I find the cries of 'accountability' by Pakistanis (most of them are like petulant little kids) fascinating. Pakistanis wants accountability for their leaders. They want results. They want success; they want justice; they want secure borders; they want economic prosperity. They are perfectionists in their demands.
Before these whiners demand all that, they better be ready to foot the bill. How many of them are regularly and voluntarily paying their taxes? How many of them pay their traffic violation tickets? Wife beaters? Thievery, anyone? Stealing electricity, hmmmmm? For the uninitiated, it actually DOES happen!
So folks, I say accountability for ALL. From top to bottom.
Or it's the system that is incompetent? I've heard it a zillion times here that 90% or more don't pay their taxes in Pakistan. The leaders set a good example for people to follow, and in Pakistan the leaders themselves are corrupt to the core and then expecting form ordinary citizens to behave like an angel is a very immature approach. As a chinese saying goes, the fish tends to rot from the head down.
People are same everywhere, they always try to avoid paying taxes, everybody wants to have more money in his pocket. In other countries, esp. in the western countries, they have made it almost impossible for people to avoid paying taxes, their tax collection system is competent. Pakistan's tax collection system is archaic and corrupt. The government needs to improve its tax collection system and has to take drastic measures to eradicate corruption from bureaucracy.
How many of them are regularly and voluntarily paying their taxes? How many of them pay their traffic violation tickets? Wife beaters? Thievery, anyone? Stealing electricity, hmmmmm? For the uninitiated, it actually DOES happen!
So folks, I say accountability for ALL. From top to bottom.
so blame all Pakistanies because somehow the endemic corruption in the beareucracy, politics and army is caused by wife beating, traffic violation tickets, and taxes?
much of the political will for enforcing tax laws/civic laws is diluted by the fact that the enforcers are themselves some of the biggest offenders, or are enabled by the biggest offenders. so who governs you and the nature of that govt does determine to a significant degree how much corruption prevails in the country.
why is NAB impotent now, why do some of the biggest fish escape? Because they're either in power, or their cases are being used for political leverage. Given the disparity of wealth in Pakistan, we'll recover a big chunk of the taxes you want to get if you get the fair amount out of the ruling elite and those who know the ruling elite and those who know someone who knows the ruling elite. Doesnt politics figure there?
So yes, put the system in order before everything else, otherwise you'll keep passing the buck around from Musharraf to NS to BB to whoever follows because everyone screws with the system and justifies it on the basis of expedience.
so blame all Pakistanies because somehow the endemic corruption in the beareucracy, politics and army** is caused by wife beating, traffic violation tickets, and taxes**?
I would ignore such blabbering but not the other comments, he just added his own venom in the mix.
The endemic corruption in the beauracracy, politics and army is neither an individual's problem nor institutional, rather national. There is a hadith if you remember which somewhat means that you will get leaders like you (jaisee qom waisay leaders). If you look into details, our society is full of people who want to get away with anything illegal be it traffic, fiscal, social or moral crime, all of us want to use 'sifarish', 'pawwa', 'jugaR' to get something whether we 'deserved' it or not, and this does not exclude mullahs/religious people of society. But this does not mean that 100% population is that way.
the problem is that corruption is the norm now, with no fear of blowback. however i disagree that it is a national problem in the sense that there is something inherent about us that causes us to be predisposed to that sort of behaviour. Create the same break down in the law and order system anywhere else, and the same will happen.
therefore ultimately it is a problem of leadership and the lack of will to enforce laws, because they want to hang on to whatever power they have, whether it is the army, beaureucracy, political parties, or Musharraf. your hadis could be turned around too and be true, jaisay leaders, waisi qoum.
therefore ultimately it is a problem of leadership and the lack of will to enforce laws, because they want to hang on to whatever power they have, whether it is the army, beaureucracy, political parties, or Musharraf. your hadis could be turned around too and be true, jaisay leaders, waisi qoum.
I agree with ravage's point of view on this. We have a perfectly good example of this in the country..Motorway/Islamabad Traffic Police. It is obvious that they were provided a proper training and appropriate rewards which resulted in minimum corruption in these departments. If pakistani's r inherently corrupt, how is anyone going to explain this to me?