kher back to teh topic of leadership rather than talling about awaams corruption.
if we are saying that awaam is corrupt, and that that is responsibility for the govt, sure, I can accept that as well, we need to have a better system in place for everything, from tax collection to
realizing that some things will be hard if not impossible to enforce and boil down to ethics and morals of the people.
what this theory does not explain is why pakistanis get in trouble for breaking laws in other countries where there are systems of checks and balances. KSA is one example.
anyways I digress..
am I right in assuming that we are all in agreement that anything that happens under the watch of the person who is in the post of president/PM etc.. that the president/PM is accountable.. had they felt they were not in control they could have resigned, but continuing to be in a role where they claimed they were puppets and did not have power basically makes them acocuntable. They did not do what the nation wanted them to do..whether they were unwilling or unable is a whole diff issue.
kher back to teh topic of leadership rather than talling about awaams corruption.
if we are saying that awaam is corrupt, and that that is responsibility for the govt, sure, I can accept that as well, we need to have a better system in place for everything, from tax collection to
realizing that some things will be hard if not impossible to enforce and boil down to ethics and morals of the people.
what this theory does not explain is why pakistanis get in trouble for breaking laws in other countries where there are systems of checks and balances. KSA is one example.
anyways I digress..
am I right in assuming that we are all in agreement that anything that happens under the watch of the person who is in the post of president/PM etc.. that the president/PM is accountable.. had they felt they were not in control they could have resigned, but continuing to be in a role where they claimed they were puppets and did not have power basically makes them acocuntable. They did not do what the nation wanted them to do..whether they were unwilling or unable is a whole diff issue.
The current set up is hardly accountable to anyone. In normal conditions, an elected PM would be accountable to the people and the President theoretically should be accountable to some degree to his electorate. As it is, in current dispensation, the PM is accountable to the President who in turn is accountable to no one since he is not properly elected. Pls sirs, dont direct me to the 17th amendment and the referendum.
where does it not? pls stop snorting over the little advances that we have made in whatever field. Its easy to act like Simon Cowell ridiculing and rolling eyes over everything sitting in amreeka but a lot harder what these guys have to go through...lets just give credit where its due. I dont think it should hurt anyone's ego.
I am asking a very simple question. no need to get technical.
Is the top person or top persons ( a handful at best) responsible for what happens during their term or not. Yes or No
again, as I said, if someone feels that they did not have the power, they always had the ability to resign, e.g. shaukat aziz can not claim oh I did not have power so I can not be held accountable, well the fact that you stayed in your role, and did not resign on principle makes you accountable as well.
So a simple yes or no are the PM/President/CE etc not accountable for what happens during their watch.
I say they are.
does anyone disagree. its not a complicated question. I am rather amused to see ppl not answer it.
where does it not? pls stop snorting over the little advances that we have made in whatever field. Its easy to act like Simon Cowell ridiculing and rolling eyes over everything sitting in amreeka but a lot harder what these guys have to go through...lets just give credit where its due. I dont think it should hurt anyone's ego.
lets not get personal kiddo. you can make the same point in a civilized manner as well. Let me know if you can not. dont lower your standards of posts to your allies who have nothing better to do than to call names and get personal. does not suit you..
I am not snorting over anything. I actually agreed with you that laathi works, and that govt needs to have a better system.
regardless, lets go back to the point of top leadership accountability because that is what we are talking about.
I find the cries of 'accountability' by Pakistanis (most of them are like petulant little kids) fascinating. Pakistanis wants accountability for their leaders. They want results. They want success; they want justice; they want secure borders; they want economic prosperity. They are perfectionists in their demands.
Before these whiners demand all that, they better be ready to foot the bill. How many of them are regularly and voluntarily paying their taxes? How many of them pay their traffic violation tickets? Wife beaters? Thievery, anyone? Stealing electricity, hmmmmm? For the uninitiated, it actually DOES happen!
So folks, I say accountability for ALL. From top to bottom.
therefore ultimately it is a problem of leadership and the lack of will to enforce laws, because they want to hang on to whatever power they have, whether it is the army, beaureucracy, political parties, or Musharraf. your hadis could be turned around too and be true, jaisay leaders, waisi qoum.
yaar mujhe nahi pata tha ke Prophet Mohammad PBUH ke alfaz ko aap tor maror saktay hayn, thanks for letting me know.
Free fall of currency can occur due to bad policies, week economic conditions and or a perception of weekenss.
Resposibility Chart in my opinion.
1.Finance Ministry overall policies
2. State bank / FED
3. PM
If finance ministery does not do its job, it should be fixed/fired by the PM. If that does not happen then PM should be voted out. Ultimate resposibity lies with PM in Pakistani system and it should.
yaar mujhe nahi pata tha ke Prophet Mohammad PBUH ke alfaz ko aap tor maror saktay hayn, thanks for letting me know.
a) it isnt rasool ke alfaz, it is "rasool ke alfaz as paraphrased by you as you remember without attributing any source of reference, leave aside the authenticity of that source"
b) i didnt tor maror it, i merely said the converse to the Rasool's words is also true.
I just wanted to make sure that we are in agreement that no matter what the circumstances the top leaders of a country are acoountable for whatever happens during their watch.
Regardless of the discussion, i just want to correct you fraudia.
This buck is not the dollar but the marker in the poker game which tells who will be the dealer. so in Pakistan’s case as well, it will be where the buck stops and not the rupee. For more details see this link
lets not get personal kiddo. you can make the same point in a civilized manner as well. Let me know if you can not. dont lower your standards of posts to your allies who have nothing better to do than to call names and get personal. does not suit you..
I am not snorting over anything. I actually agreed with you that laathi works, and that govt needs to have a better system.
regardless, lets go back to the point of top leadership accountability because that is what we are talking about.
Its a sad commentary on our political mindset that we criticize the country for not possessing any institutions yet when suggested otherwise, the hard work of a whole institution is swept under the carpet as lathi's magic. sadder still is the fact that in an earlier post I had explained to your very self why and how the traffic police in Islamabad/Motorway is working better than its corrupt counter parts elsewhere. There's more to it than lathi. And even if one were to somehow accept this line of thinking, that lathi works, then we have had lathi rule on this great country for more than half of its life. How do u then explain our great strides in eradicating corruption from the society and rule of law etc etc?
My intent was not to offend. Merely a reflection of the disappointment in that post. Still I apologize if u r hurt.
I find the cries of 'accountability' by Pakistanis (most of them are like petulant little kids) fascinating. Pakistanis wants accountability for their leaders. They want results. They want success; they want justice; they want secure borders; they want economic prosperity. They are perfectionists in their demands.
Before these whiners demand all that, they better be ready to foot the bill. How many of them are regularly and voluntarily paying their taxes? How many of them pay their traffic violation tickets? Wife beaters? Thievery, anyone? Stealing electricity, hmmmmm? For the uninitiated, it actually DOES happen!
So folks, I say accountability for ALL. From top to bottom.
Pakistanis want clean water. Quality education. Shelter over their heads. electricity, economic and social justice. These r basic necessities. Does the state provide these? For the uninitiated, no. Whats so perfectionist about that?
Ur insinuation that Pakistanis r inherently corrupt is hardly going to stand. The system that breeds these "whiners" is conveniently forgotten and forgiven.
After all, no powerful MNA ever breaks the traffic light, patronizes thieves, beats their wives...or kills others' wives, none of them r bank defaulters. They r all god fearing men of principles.
Its a sad commentary on our political mindset that we criticize the country for not possessing any institutions yet when suggested otherwise, the hard work of a whole institution is swept under the carpet as lathi's magic. sadder still is the fact that in an earlier post I had explained to your very self why and how the traffic police in Islamabad/Motorway is working better than its corrupt counter parts elsewhere. There's more to it than lathi. And even if one were to somehow accept this line of thinking, that lathi works, then we have had lathi rule on this great country for more than half of its life. How do u then explain our great strides in eradicating corruption from the society and rule of law etc etc?
My intent was not to offend. Merely a reflection of the disappointment in that post. Still I apologize if u r hurt.
I was merely disappointed in the manner you chose to make your point, and not the point itself.
I see your point and have no disagreement with it, but you are going way to deep into it, forget the laathi comment for a second and address the big question. Is the top leadership not responsible.
if a company does poorly, the CEO rtakes the blame. if a team does poorly the captain shoulders the blame. likewise when a country does poorly the person/people and top have to take the blame and not find scapegoats and excuses, that is my point of view. Also, no leader gets a carte blanche, what failures that happened during their watch ..they should take the blame for it, whether its drugs durin zia's time, or baluchistan situation in musahrraf's time.
There may be things that have been set in otion earlier, or had extraordinary circumstances or whatever, but someone needs to be held accountable, and in my view its the top leadership and to leader of the country.
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