Detailed documentary of the massacre.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4452580708715802828&q=gujrat
2 hours & 30 minutes
“humaaray bachon ko aag may phainka”
“sub ko kaat diya”
“meri chachee ko nanga kar ke kaata”
Re: The Reality In Gujrat - Final Solution
If it is so difficult to live in India, torture. massacre of so simple Muslims is on the swing...one thing astonish me that I do not find at all if Muslims are migrating from India, .......like minorities have systematically vanished in Islamic states.
These people are masters in spreading rumours.
If I ask this, _Lahore_Ka_Cheetah,....why riots in Gujarat took place, I doubt if he would have guts to reply.
Re: The Reality In Gujrat - Final Solution
These people are masters in spreading rumours.
If I ask this, _Lahore_Ka_Cheetah,....why riots in Gujarat took place, I doubt if he would have guts to reply.
they were orchastrated by the Hindu Nazi called Modi.
It was an accicdental cooking fire which sparked the riots and lead to the deaths of so many innocent muslims.
Re: The Reality In Gujrat - Final Solution
See guys, no point you keep putting your point of view and we putting our point of view for years... Isn't that happening for years...... Nutshell..
Gujarat is fastest economically growting state. We haven't seen any Muslims moving out of Gujarat (As Pandits from Kashmir, or Hindus from Bangladesh).
There are individual stories which can be picked up and sensationalize the same...
This is a typical taking a micro level example and turning it into a macro level argument. That's done all the time by hardliners.......
Now when something like this will be made and shown in Madarsas, You will create only hardliners and people who will hate Hindus and India. In that case you are just hardening the stances and final verdict on hardened stands can only be a ultimate solution only. That has happened in Iraq, Afghanistan and many other countries.
The flexible approach (read democracy, or benevolent autocracy) tries not to let stands harden, so that there is a solution rather than just the ultimate solution.
Hopefully we in India will win the battle between hardliners and democrats.....
Re: The Reality In Gujrat - Final Solution
These people are masters in spreading rumours.
If I ask this, _Lahore_Ka_Cheetah,....why riots in Gujarat took place, I doubt if he would have guts to reply.
Forget rumors, we all know that Muslims in India are taunted as "Pakistanis" there loyalty is always under scrutiny. After talking to some good Indo Muslims, I've found that they're just living there coz they don't have another choice, they have their roots there and that things werent so bad some decades ago, recently they've become awful and the Gujrat killings just dont die down, just look whats been goin on in the last month or so with the killings of protestors, demolishment of scared Islamic sites etc. Doesn't sound like home for any sane person.
Re: The Reality In Gujrat - Final Solution
Just to note that a hardliner is like a monster, it didn't stop with one it just keeps going for next victim. So first its Hindus, than its Sunni/Shia, than within that subsects......... It just won't stop.......
Thankfully ShivSena is losing ground in Mumbai and Maharashtra. They could have turned into a Taliban had they gained power, and hopefully they won't.......
Re: The Reality In Gujrat - Final Solution
Interestingly, Lahore_ka_cheeta, wasn't this documentary banned from screening in India? Some folks need a good dose of reality it seems.
Re: The Reality In Gujrat - Final Solution
Great buddy, you again go on one way street... its a two way street...
1. If there are some who taunt them as Pakistanis... wasn't Pakistan created as Muslim nations.. than if I get sweets even after 50 years on independence from Muslims when Pakistan wins against India.. What you expect me to do... Though thankfully such incidents are less and less as we go forward.
2. If its based on your discussion, my discussions with Indian Muslims in India while staying in India, they are clear that India is much better place to live for Muslims. This is after they have been to Pakistan, Haz, and other Muslims countries. Though this argument won't go anywhere since this is my word against yours.
3. Now you are already generalizing a law and order situation.. You have already turned one dargah (which was supported by Hindu funds? means visited by all Hindus and Muslims) into Islamic Sites..
This is India's fastest growing state economically, So the infrastructure in Gujarat is imporving with amazing pace (Dargah incident was related to road widening). Muslims voted for BJP in local Panchayat elections... ofcourse its not a place for a sane person.
On sanity, yes it remains one of the rare states in India with prohibition, with no liquor and government refuse to legalize it....... (Isn't that close to Muslim heart.. while Hindu Shastras talk about liquor even as part of worship)..
Re: The Reality In Gujrat - Final Solution
India bans film on anti-Muslim bloodshed
Saturday, 07 August , 2004, 17:22
New Delhi: India has banned an internationally acclaimed film documenting bloody anti-Muslim riots in 2002 in the Hindu nationalist-ruled state of Gujarat, the director said Saturday.
Rakesh Sharma said the censor board told him it would not issue a certificate for public screening of his three-hour documentary, The Final Solution, because the film could incite fresh religious tension.
Sharma said he would fight the ban by distributing thousands of video CDs to be shown in private homes, which are not affected by the censor board.
He said he also hoped to organise illegal public screenings with prominent directors to "challenge the authorities to come and arrest us."
"When we are faced with this kind of action, we have to find innovative methods of civil disobedience," according to Sharma.
The Final Solution -- the title a reference to the Holocaust -- uses interviews and archive footage to recount the grisly violence and continued religious polarization in the western state, where 2,000 people died in riots.
The Final Solution won two awards at the Berlin International Film Festival in February and has since been screened extensively overseas. Sharma will tour with the movie across the United States and Canada from mid-September to late October.
The Gujarat violence broke out after an allegedly Muslim mob torched a train carrying Hindu activists, killing 59 people. Most of the subsequent victims were Muslim and human rights groups accused the right-wing state government of abetting the vigilante violence.
Sharma said the censor board was dominated by allies of India's former Hindu nationalist government which lost power in an election upset in May. No censor board official was immediately available for comment Saturday.
The director said he would appeal against the ban either through the courts or India's new left-leaning government, which has vowed to speed up prosecution of perpetrators of the Gujarat bloodletting.
Sharma said he had already held up to 100 private screenings of The Final Solution in India without incident, belying censor board claims that themovie could stir trouble.
The director said he hoped to force a debate about censorship in India. The censor board regularly asks Bollywood producers to cut out material, particularly of a sexual nature, although outright bans on films are rare. "If Indians have the right to vote and decide who governs them, it is rather silly that they don't have the right to choose what to watch," Sharma said.
This speaks volumes for Indian "free media". Was this ban on this documentary ever revoked and was the film allowed to run without any cuts, like any "normal" film?
Re: The Reality In Gujrat - Final Solution
Ofcourse it such sensationalisms should be banned. Like Praveen Togadia of VHP has been arrested again and agian and banned in speaking in rallies. He also speaks about such incidents ... and sensationalize them... its just that the characters change...
About does of reality, having Sex is reality, why don't you do it on the road. Skin is reality why does burqua prescribed for women......
There are things you understand and work with them, rather than drumming in public and creating more passion that will create nothing but more such incidents for both parties........
Re: The Reality In Gujrat - Final Solution
^^ It's sensational when it doesn't suit you or your government. This documentary simply lifts the veil from whatever which was going around. Don't go prancing around speaking volumes about India's free secular democracy and media now. It rings really, really hollow.
Re: The Reality In Gujrat - Final Solution
Saturday, 07 August , 2004, 17:22 New Delhi: India has banned an internationally acclaimed film documenting bloody anti-Muslim riots in 2002 in the Hindu nationalist-ruled state of Gujarat, the director said Saturday. Rakesh Sharma said the censor board told him it would not issue a certificate for public screening of his three-hour documentary, The Final Solution, because the film could incite fresh religious tension. Sharma said he would fight the ban by distributing thousands of video CDs to be shown in private homes, which are not affected by the censor board. He said he also hoped to organise illegal public screenings with prominent directors to "challenge the authorities to come and arrest us." "When we are faced with this kind of action, we have to find innovative methods of civil disobedience," according to Sharma.
The Final Solution -- the title a reference to the Holocaust -- uses interviews and archive footage to recount the grisly violence and continued religious polarization in the western state, where 2,000 people died in riots. The Final Solution won two awards at the Berlin International Film Festival in February and has since been screened extensively overseas. Sharma will tour with the movie across the United States and Canada from mid-September to late October. The Gujarat violence broke out after an allegedly Muslim mob torched a train carrying Hindu activists, killing 59 people. Most of the subsequent victims were Muslim and human rights groups accused the right-wing state government of abetting the vigilante violence. Sharma said the censor board was dominated by allies of India's former Hindu nationalist government which lost power in an election upset in May. No censor board official was immediately available for comment Saturday. The director said he would appeal against the ban either through the courts or India's new left-leaning government, which has vowed to speed up prosecution of perpetrators of the Gujarat bloodletting. Sharma said he had already held up to 100 private screenings of The Final Solution in India without incident, belying censor board claims that themovie could stir trouble. The director said he hoped to force a debate about censorship in India. The censor board regularly asks Bollywood producers to cut out material, particularly of a sexual nature, although outright bans on films are rare. "If Indians have the right to vote and decide who governs them, it is rather silly that they don't have the right to choose what to watch," Sharma said.
This speaks volumes for Indian "free media". Was this ban on this documentary ever revoked and was the film allowed to run without any cuts, like any "normal" film?
Ofcourse, when Salman Rushdie's novel can be banned, there are more parameters state looks at... May be you are very selective..
Indian media is free media, or you can should that in name of freedom all can't get passed .. when cartoons get banned, when Salman Rushdie get banned, when parliament goes and enacts in Shahbano's case, and and and and...
Re: The Reality In Gujrat - Final Solution
Fictitious, inflamatory cartoons are one thing, a real film exposing the reality of a certain situation quite another 
Go figure…free media…duh!
Re: The Reality In Gujrat - Final Solution
Its hallow for you , not for me, and not for maximum numbers of Muslims living in India. I am living closer to Indian Muslims and interact with them much more than you can ever do... I have studied with them, I have played with them for decades, I have shared lunches with them, I share board rooms and coroporate world with them, shared our wine glasses and liquor...
I haven't seen any of them leaving for anywhere, they are planning future in India. India remains the destinations for running Iraqies, Afgahanistanis...(all muslims)...
again you can keep picking micro issues and keep truning them to macro issues, ln simple words take an incident and trun it into general lifestyle...
May be you will understand that how much hatered you are piling up inside you...
Re: The Reality In Gujrat - Final Solution
You go figure buddy, every part about Gujarat you post here is from free media of India. Rakesh Sharma you talk about is HINDU and part of media…
You go figure if you even understand difference between free media and state responsibility…
You go figure if you don’t understand that nothing is perfect and imperfectoins doesn’t make a devil… it makes one human…
Re: The Reality In Gujrat - Final Solution
- If there are some who taunt them as Pakistanis... wasn't Pakistan created as Muslim nations.. than if I get sweets even after 50 years on independence from Muslims when Pakistan wins against India.. What you expect me to do... Though thankfully such incidents are less and less as we go forward.
You're justifying the "Indian" muslims as being branded nationals of a foreign country, yet you've shared yer dhoti, yer wine glasses whatever crap with 'em. Waah, a true Aaasteen ka saanp in a way which only folks like you can be :D
Btw, all your previous claims have been disproved so you can spend another hour with some phoney post :)
Re: The Reality In Gujrat - Final Solution
how can you blame indian media for not being free after all this?.....you easily forgot that it was NDTV which brought out "go to pakistan", thing....and you blame indian media for that?. how pathetic?....anything with india is a good enough reason to blame.
Re: The Reality In Gujrat - Final Solution
The same news channels were also involved in the huge cover up around the Gujrat riots to protect the interests of the religous majority in Hindustan.
Free media...duh...go figure again!
Re: The Reality In Gujrat - Final Solution
Btw, all your previous claims have been disproved so you can spend another hour with some phoney post :)
You may put a smile on a post as sad as this vedio sorry I can't.......
there is saying that once other person starts abusing...... you know he doesn't have arguments left and he accepts that.......
So thanks for using abusive langauge, I rest my case....
have a nice day........ and keep posting................
Re: The Reality In Gujrat - Final Solution
Aasteen ka saanp is an Urdu axiom, its not my problem if you can differentiate between good Urdu and absusive langauge. Besides, whatever I’ve said is deduced from your own posts.
I would appreciate some new intelligent insight regarding the beautiful state of Indo muslims …and yes, free Indo media 