The raging controversy in Islam

[Abdullah_k]

Re: The raging controversy in Islam

@Mamaof3

pinks, can you supply the passage(s) from the Quran which state that listening to music is forbidden? And that dancing is forbidden? That owning a dog is forbidden? That good Muslims cannot acknowledge the holidays of other religions?

I've not finished reading the Quran but I dont recall reading that these things are forbidden.

Your idea of purdah for Muslims and "mini-skirts" for everyone else is kind of absurd. There are ways to dress modestly in the west and its not the majority of women who wear miniskirts. As far as alcohol, it is an accepted fact of life here yet it is definitely NOT a requirement to partake of it and there are many who do not - Muslim and otherwise. Same with gambling. And guys only get "brownie points" for ogling and passing comments when they are in their obnoxious teen years. After that, its considered anywhere from impolite to absolutely crude. So talking about the "realities of life" in the west and fitting in, you dont need to take things way out of proportion. It is absolutely possible to nicely fit in here without compromising your beleifs, values and practices.

I seem to recall reading in the Quran that the seeking of all knowledge is not only a good thing, but a required thing. Is it your opinion though that seeking knowledge about other religions is forbidden? Or that male med students cannot learn about the female body and vice versa? That the seeking of knowledge is selective? I just cannot imagine that the Quran would direct a follower not to wish a christian "merry christmas" or that Allah would send a man to Hell for bringing home a rose to his wife on valentines day.

I guess this means I;m one of those "moderates"

Here's what I suggest. Before, certitudes of such actions or denial thereof in accordance with Allah's
(SWT) commandments, a change must come in the person's heart. This change is the recognition of His greatness and true aspiration to submit to His will and plan - this is called Iman and Yaqeen (Faith) in Allah. If Faith is entrenched in person's heart then the actions begin to mould automatically to please Him and Him only. The practical epitome of actions accepted to Allah (SWT) lies in the Sunnah of Prophet Mohammad (PBUH); the only way of lifestyle accepted to Him. So, the least we can do is to learn not only about Quran but also the Sunnah of our beloved Prophet (PBUH) in order to bring his qualities in all aspects of our lives.

[psyah]

Re: The raging controversy in Islam

Pinks, I think the point was missed. The things that you purport to be forbidden really are not forbidden in the Quran - rather they are forbidden by interpretations of the Quran I think.

The purpose of Islaam should bring peace and serenity to its followers and allow them to spread this peace and serenity. I am SO impressed when I meet these "peaceful people" as I like to call them. They have something that is beyond measure and something that every human should strive towards. When you take Islaam to the extremes that have been mentioned in this thread, it spreads nothing but negativeness and does nothing good for the religion. You'd call these peaceful people moderates but they're the ones that are helping to educate the western world that Islaam is a good and peaceful religion. Those who are NOT moderate always seem agressive and looking for a fight, always seem to be on the hunt for jews and westerners. Thats not the purpose of Islaam. IMHO.

Peace Mamaof3

The Qur'an is an interesting entity and when it is understood by others and also the role of Muhammad (SAW) is understood by others only then can some meaning be put behind such conversations.

Primarily, the Qur'an itself acknowledges that people will read it making different interpretations. When it tells us that through it Allah (SWT) gives guidance and misguidance we can see this to be the case. We therefore have to stress the importance of the understanding behind the Qur'an. It is the interpretation the way it is intended to be interpreted.

Hamza Yusuf explains this matter that the Qur'an is utter knowledge that condescends upon humanity. Our minds are like prisms which refract the Word in different ways and each one of us can find something in the Qur'an that we understand fully, get confused about, emotional about and so on. It is the way Muhammad (SAW) had taught the application of the Qur'an in his life is how we must understand it.

There are parts in the Qur'an which do not address directly certain issues, such as music, and the words more generally relate to 'idle talk' ... the scholars point to this as inherent to music, no, they swear by it. Why? If we look at the essence behind music and no matter how much we claim it to have healing powers and this and that, ultimately music serves no purpose other than fuelling ones ego and desires. It is a 'feel-good' tincture a magical potion that sets minds in wander. What benefir in history can we say that music has brought?

Anyway ... Muhammad (SAW) had the ability to understand the Qur'an ... this sounds like an obvious statement, but it is a paramount one. Islam is about a middle path way, and it was his (SAW) understanding that was middle path. It is through his life that we can gauge what middle path is.

Yes ... there are many interpretations, but that is mainly because people today have become less afraid of voicing their opinions and more blaze with the rule and etiquettes of Islam. Note: even when the companions were given a chance to coice their opinions about a matter they we humble themselves and say when asked what such and such means, "Allah (SWT) and His Rasool know best", they would rather hear what it means from the authority rather than chance a try at understanding.

Early Muslims collected parchments of Qur'an and compiled it to preserve the Deen, later Muslims collected hadith to preserve the Deen, later people developed exegesis and creedal formulations to preserve the Deen, today what is being done?

Today there is a need to standardise translation and meaning of translation. This does not mean voicing one opinion, but setting the full array of the opinions and classifying them. That is the responsibility over the Muslims today for preserving the Deen ... I wonder what is being done about this?

[asdfghjk]

Re: The raging controversy in Islam

When a person commits a sin believing that a sin is being committed and feels regret and remorse in the heart, then this is far better then committing the sin and believing it to be halal. In the former situation, only one sin is being committed, and it is very likely that the individual may repent out of the remorse felt in the heart. In the latter case, however, in addition to the sin being committed, there is the greater sin of trying to justify it. Normally, such an individual does not receive the guidance to repent from his sin.

Some try to justify music with the Hadith in which the permissibility of playing the tambourine (daf) is mentioned. However, as stated in the works of the Fuqaha, to play the tambourine is permissible only at weddings, as it is NOT designed for sole entertainment and pleasure ONLY for announcement.

Allah Most High says: And there are among men, those that purchase idle tales, to mislead (men) from the path of Allah and throw ridicule. For such there will be a humiliating punishment (Surah Luqman, V. 6). This verse was revealed in relation to singing and musical instruments (Tafsir ibn Kathir, 3/442)

Abd Allah Ibn Umar (Allah be pleased with him) reports that the Messenger of

Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: Verily Allah has forbidden alcohol, gambling, drum and guitar, and every intoxicant is haram (Musnad Ahmad & Sunan Abu Dawud).

Sayyiduna Abu Malik al-Ashari (Allah be pleased with him) reports that he heard the Messenger of Allah say: There will appear people in my Ummah, who will hold adultery, silk, alcohol and musical instruments to be lawful (Sahih al-Bukhari)

Abd Allah ibn Masud (Allah be pleased with him) reports that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: Song makes hypocrisy grow in the heart as water does herbage (Sunan al-Bayhaqi).

One of the harms of music is that it distracts one from his Creator. It serves as a temporary means of pleasure which makes one forget who he really is and why he was created. He forgets the noble purpose.

One of the main causes for the decline of the Muslims is their involvement in useless entertainment. Today we see that Muslims are involved, and at the forefront perhaps, of many immoralities and evils. The spiritual power which once was the trait of a Muslim is nowhere to be seen. One of the main reasons for this is music and useless entertainment.

There will be people from my Ummah who will seek to make lawful fornication, wearing of silk, wine and the use of musical instruments (Sahih al-Bukhari 6:303 Dar al-Fikr)

Prophet Muhammad said ” I have been sent to break musical instruments”. Music acts like cocaine. While you are listening to it it is pleasurable but the moment you stop listening to it you become very depressed. Musical gatherings are gatherings of shaitan. Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala destroyed previous ummahs who indulged in singing and musical instruments. Music does not become halal because it is pleasurable. Cocaine is also pleasurable.

In western society music is considered food for the soul. Maybe thats why anti-depressants are a million dollar business.

[PyariCgudia]

Re: The raging controversy in Islam

There seems to be a lot of moderate Guppies, who want Islam to take into consideration the realities of todays life.

• eg Music, dancing, singing, keeping dogs as pet, respecting other religions, not destroying idols (Buddhist monuments etc), embracing pre Islamic civilisations, non Arabisation, Burqha or hijab wearing, accepting the different sects in Islam, Blasphemy etc etc

And yet on the other end, there are some who do not want to change even a comma in the Quran.

I wish the moderates would win, but I do not see this happening in the near future. What do you think.

You need to cut it out.

I don't see necessarily all muslims being split into these two camps. FYI, many of us think that balanced views on the issues you mentioned are completely compatible with Islam and with the Quran. You're basically telling muslims that they are faced with choosing between scripture and a balanced life, implying that the scripture is extreme and unbalanced. Try reading the book for once in your life before constantly trying to make people fight.

[malhot]

Re: The raging controversy in Islam

PCG - I have read the Quran, the Shia version in English. Thereafter, I met a Sunni youth, who when I mentioned this - got into as rage and rubbished their Quran as lies, and insisted that Shia's are not muslims.

I do believe that most educated Pakistani Muslims are 'moderate', and **think **whereas, the others have shut their God given brain/logic/reasoning..

[PyariCgudia]

Re: The raging controversy in Islam

So you have one incident with an idiot, and you proceed to make what of it? Who cares? Fact of the matter is that the Quran doesn't support the extreme behavior that you imply it does. It simply doesn't. And meanwhile, pick up a "Sunni" version of the Quran. Guess what? Its the same darn text. Just translated maybe differently with different interpretations, in which case, your skill in "reading" isn't all that very good.

[malhot]

Re: The raging controversy in Islam

PCG: **The key word is interpretation.How come the educated few's interpretations are so vastly different from the fundamentalists.?

• The 'moderates' think they are the true muslims - they truely think. *

Whereas the 'Fundamentalists' insist they are the true muslims - and they enforce their views by blowing up any one who disagrees with them!!.

*Whether you like it not - This is a raging controversy in Islam. *