There seems to be a lot of moderate Guppies, who want Islam to take into consideration the realities of todays life.
eg Music, dancing, singing, keeping dogs as pet, respecting other religions, not destroying idols (Buddhist monuments etc), embracing pre Islamic civilisations, non Arabisation, Burqha or hijab wearing, accepting the different sects in Islam, Blasphemy etc etc
And yet on the other end, there are some who do not want to change even a comma in the Quran.
I wish the moderates would win, but I do not see this happening in the near future. What do you think.
Its not that the moderate folks wants to make changes to Holy Quran...its just that we disagree with the extreme interpetation of our book..... Extremist believe whatever the interpetation they believe in...thats the way Islam wanted it to be....... There they are wrong.....
There seems to be a lot of moderate Guppies, who want Islam to take into consideration the realities of todays life.
eg Music, dancing, singing, keeping dogs as pet, respecting other religions, not destroying idols (Buddhist monuments etc), embracing pre Islamic civilisations, non Arabisation, Burqha or hijab wearing, accepting the different sects in Islam, Blasphemy etc etc
And yet on the other end, there are some who do not want to change even a comma in the Quran.
I wish the moderates would win, but I do not see this happening in the near future. What do you think.
Why dont you start a new group.... call is "Islam Reformist" or "Moderate Islam ko follow kar ne waale"
In the group, you can change not just a comma, but verses so that it is ok listen to music that your newer version of islam permits, its ok to dance with the opposite sex in ways that the traditionalist would consider vulgar, you can keep dogs and mix their saliva on every corner of your house, you can respect other religions by celebrating easter/ christmas/ valentine's day, oh... and the best part; women dont have to cover up at all... everyone should walk around in a mini skirt if the temperature is above 45 degrees celcius (they go to hell for doing otherwise), guys get brownie points for whistling/ passing comments at scantly dressed girls, you can write a book that is NOT in arabic, and accept that it is not shirk to call to others accept Allah (how else would we be accepting right?)
If you are not prepared to do all this, then i guess the other method would be to keep the current quran, but publish it with a translation that meets your purpose.
PS: you forgot to mention alcohol consumption, gambling and pre-marital sex ("a reality of today's life") in your original post... oh and the other thing common in our times is disrespect for parents, so we should probably do something about the ayats in the quran that speak on the topic as well!
Why dont you start a new group.... call is "Islam Reformist" or "Moderate Islam ko follow kar ne waale"
In the group, you can change not just a comma, but verses so that it is ok listen to music that your newer version of islam permits, its ok to dance with the opposite sex in ways that the traditionalist would consider vulgar, you can keep dogs and mix their saliva on every corner of your house, you can respect other religions by celebrating easter/ christmas/ valentine's day, oh... and the best part; women dont have to cover up at all... everyone should walk around in a mini skirt if the temperature is above 45 degrees celcius (they go to hell for doing otherwise), guys get brownie points for whistling/ passing comments at scantly dressed girls, you can write a book that is NOT in arabic, and accept that it is not shirk to call to others accept Allah (how else would we be accepting right?)
If you are not prepared to do all this, then i guess the other method would be to keep the current quran, but publish it with a translation that meets your purpose.
PS: you forgot to mention alcohol consumption, gambling and pre-marital sex ("a reality of today's life") in your original post... oh and the other thing common in our times is disrespect for parents, so we should probably do something about the ayats in the quran that speak on the topic as well!
There is no need to get all hyped up bud. Chill out.
I'm pretty sure nothing was said about dancing with women, celebrating other religion's holidays, or wearing mini-skirts... but maybe I'm wrong...
ummm.... the Quran tells the BELIEVING women to cover up... so there goes the mini skirt
the Quran tells the BELIEVING men and women to lower thier gazes, so there goes your dancing.
as far as celebrating other ppl's holidays... we cant bcoz we are taking part in thier beleifs which are often contrary to the teachings of Islam.... its like you are accepting their religion by taking part in it....
ummm.... the Quran tells the BELIEVING women to cover up... so there goes the mini skirt
the Quran tells the BELIEVING men and women to lower thier gazes, so there goes your dancing.
as far as celebrating other ppl's holidays... we cant bcoz we are taking part in thier beleifs which are often contrary to the teachings of Islam.... its like you are accepting their religion by taking part in it....
Wassalam
Thats pathethic..... in other words ....your messed up interpetation telling us that islam teaches us not be friends with other religion holders.........Your interpetation shows weakness of your imaan. A good believer would never lose his/her faith just by participating in some other people's religious holidays..... SAD
There seems to be a lot of moderate Guppies, who want Islam to take into consideration the realities of todays life.
eg Music, dancing, singing, keeping dogs as pet, respecting other religions, not destroying idols (Buddhist monuments etc), embracing pre Islamic civilisations, non Arabisation, Burqha or hijab wearing, accepting the different sects in Islam, Blasphemy etc etc
And yet on the other end, there are some who do not want to change even a comma in the Quran.
I wish the moderates would win, but I do not see this happening in the near future. What do you think.
Oh no you didn't. I see how you subtly showed that the Quran doesn't promote what the moderate muslims want. If you actually follow the Quran, you WOULD be moderate.
Its the extremists who change and manipulate things and feed people the wrong message.
Thats pathethic..... in other words ....your messed up interpetation telling us that islam teaches us not be friends with other religion holders.........Your interpetation shows weakness of your imaan. A good believer would never lose his/her faith just by participating in some other people's religious holidays.....SAD
Well Christmas (birth of Isa A.S) existed in the Prophet SAW'S time, he didn't celebrate it!
Stuff like valentine's day are totally unacceptable bcoz of the teaching of the person who started it...
its not limited to loosing faith, its more to do with outwardly accepting their practices which is the issue.... (this is not to say that we confront them about it, its more to do with participating in such occasions!)
Considering the strict stance on shirk in Islam, would anyone find it acceptable to go to a pooja at a hindu temple with a friend and bow to statues as they all do?
Malhot, in order to understand this you must first look at it from a Muslim’s perspective…
As you well know, the Quran is a book of directives…And the foremost directive is prayers…Now, keep this in mind…
Many people who claim to be Muslims, disregard this most important and unalterable directive i.e. they don’t pray…They hardly spend 2 minutes in a day on reading up on their religion and its many beautiful facets, yet when any religious discussion comes up, they are the most vocal…
Think of it in these terms: Let’s say you are at a seminar about genetic engineering where the most foremost geneticists of our time are about to give a lecture…Instead, on the stage comes the janitor and starts to address the audience…Will you as an audience member listen to him? Do you believe that the janitor would know anything about genetic engineering? Obviously being an intelligent person you would boo that person away, walk out or if you are soft hearted, will just smile and let the janitor have his say until he is done with his ignorance…
Some ignorant people who are in the audience with you who have hardly ever heard about genetic engineering will start to actually believe the janitor because the janitor is not talking from facts but from his heart…
The Muslim camp is divided into these two parts:
Those about whom Allah :swt: says in the Quran that will blindly follow what their hearts tell them and stumble forever blind and deaf…
And those who have spent their lives learning about Islam and those that follow them to learn from their knowledge…
As for respecting other people’s beliefs is concerned, no one is more respectful of other people’s religions than an orthodox Muslim because the orthodox Muslim believes and follows the Quran and the Sunnah…And nowhere is respecting other religions more specified than in the Quran and Sunnah because the Quran specifically instructs Muslims never to belittle the beliefs of others…
When was the last time you heard a Muslim insult or ridicule another religion? And if someone does, then that Muslim is the same as the one who does not follow the Quran and their ignorance blights Islam same as someone not praying…
As for co-existence, since most of us tend to have very short memories, as a Hindu, did you not consider the Muslim rule of India as a golden time? Don;t you think that Muslims, who were so powerful could have decimated the Hindus and wiped their religion and culture off the map? Anywhere thet Muslims went, the cultures flourished…
What happened where the Christians went? Do you forget the British rule of our subcontinent and the massive subjugation? Do you forget how Incas were annihilated? Do you forget how the Pueblo Indians were massacred? Do you forget the Crusades? The Inquisition? World war 1? World war 2 and so on and so on?
So think aside from the media bias and think for yourself…Study history for yourself…If you are in the US, enroll in Islamic history and civilization and learn for yourself…
You’d be surprised…Even as a Muslim I too was surprised…The beautiful era of Islam and coexistence was under those Muslims that followed the Quran and Sunnah…Not those who simply carry Muslim names…
Oh no you didn't. I see how you subtly showed that the Quran doesn't promote what the moderate muslims want. If you actually follow the Quran, you WOULD be moderate.
It depends on what the definition of "moderate" is here.
No no. The Quran is pretty moderate. the kind of people who thinking watching friggin' TV is haraam have a very poor understanding of the Quran. Saying Valentine's Day is haraam - how silly! Right, don't celebrate your romance. You know why? Nothing to do with who started Valentine's Day. Has to do with the fact that culturally, muslims have big issues with showing affection.
No no. The Quran is pretty moderate. the kind of people who thinking watching friggin' TV is haraam have a very poor understanding of the Quran.
My point is: Depends on what actions are considered as "moderate" and what are "not-moderate" will differ from person to person. Some may include dancing with "non-mehram" as acceptable to, some may include cover-less/shortest dresses etc.
[quote]
Saying Valentine's Day is haraam - how silly! Right, don't celebrate your romance. You know why? Nothing to do with who started Valentine's Day. Has to do with the fact that culturally, muslims have big issues with showing affection.
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Not really, showing affection does not need to be a public demonstration.
Let us use correct words. Calling for rejecting jihad, suicide bombing, polygamy, inter-sect/caste nonsense, allowing people to use their brains and not have to refer to any authority shaving ones arm pits....
These are not 'moderate'. These. Are very basic caveats of decency, civilization and human equity. I regret some unthinking insecure clowns think the only use of their brain is to recite the quran and at all other times it should be parked away. Making them accept these changes is not to moderate islam but to save these people from torturing themselves silly and making a general nuisance of themselves..
Now, should islam be changed in certain ways so it can suit contemporary environs and civilization - absolutely. But that willl happen anyway. When sufficient number of women start collaborating on the net, momentum will build for them to be treated equally, not as a fourth of a slave.
That leaves the final madness of nations law over islamic law. This is quite fundamental. If islam can modify and accept the primacy of natiions law, that'l make the repairation swifter.
There will always be people who will abhor. The idea of change ti islam. This is due not to any thought out conclusion but more because they have used quran as an excuse for all their failures and short comings till now. If islam is 'officially' changed this rather large crowd lose their easy excuse and will have to work their rusted brains. Quran will no longer be. Responsible for their failures!
I wish the moderates would win, but I do not see this happening in the near future. What do you think.
I think any self-respecting Muslim regardless of where they fall on *your *moderation specrtrum should care less about what *you *think is moderate or not.
Or shall we pretend that this isn't at all relative, or that such a discussion can actually proceed without any sort of bias?
Its just ridiculous how people big up on an online forum, but when if they had to sit in front of an Alim and tried to debate with him on the QURAN, they’d walk away humiliated.
Integration of Islam into other religions/cultures can never happen, people tried to do so and have left the fold of Islam simply put.
Many claim that they “follow” the Quran, but reading one line doesn’t make you a scholar. For 1500 years we’ve had a standard, The sunnis their own, shias their own etc.
Now we have armchair scholars coming in to tell us that they know the Quran better than their predecessors
Anyways, modernists will keep yapping, and blah blahing. But Allah protects his deen, and Allah will keep it alive, and May Allah guide em all, Ameen.
*Modernists here refers to those keen on integrating islam into the western culture.
There seems to be a lot of moderate Guppies, who want Islam to take into consideration the realities of todays life.
eg Music, dancing, singing, keeping dogs as pet, respecting other religions, not destroying idols (Buddhist monuments etc), embracing pre Islamic civilisations, non Arabisation, Burqha or hijab wearing, accepting the different sects in Islam, Blasphemy etc etc
And yet on the other end, there are some who do not want to change even a comma in the Quran.
I wish the moderates would win, but I do not see this happening in the near future. What do you think.
All we can do is try and convince the extremists through logical dialogue... Some people are just to set in their ways and close minded to ever understand that for a faith to be relevant, it must also be practical...
