Brothers, there are numbers in the Arabic language that you use which represents letters, but I've never heard that it is used in Al-Qur'an!. But I will give you and insight about it, it's a very interesting thing.
In the arabic, there is something called: "Hisab Al-Jummal" which means the calculation of sentences.
I learned that when I was acquirng "Tuhfat Al-Atfal" which is a book about the rules of the Arabic language.
It had the following rules (The Arabic alphabets: Abjad Hawwaz Hity Kalamun sa^fas Qurishat thakhathun daghathun) which are Alif, ba’, ta’, tha’, jeem, ha’…:
Alif = 1, Ba’ = 2, Jim = 3, Dal = 4, Ha’ = 5, W = 6, Zay = 7, (7)ha’= 8, Tta’= 9, Ya’ = 20, K = 30, Lam = 40, ...up to 90, then the next letter 100, 200, … until the end of the Arabic alphabets..
However that was used in the Arabic poetry not in Al-Qur’an. If any need to learn this method, I can put details, but I don’t say to use it in Al-Qur’an. Allah knows best.
And translation in greek or urdu will not be same as arabic and as such no worries about disrespect.<<
How so? Is it ok to write Allah in english or greek or urdu, and trample on it? why cant their be no worries of disrespect here? Yes, its not in arabic, but the word is the same. Whereas 786 is a symbolic conversion..and does not have the same status as ‘Allah’ written in urdu or English.
Again, this symbolic conversion, as repeated so many times, is not a substitute for Bismillah…but noone has the right to cast it as unislamic either. 786 has not been incorporated into Islam in anyway. I think you are missing the very basic concept of the usage of this number.
Can I say 819 then please?Why not?Why yes?<<
If you can come up with a sensible way of converting it to 819, then go ahead and say it.
If a group of people settles somewhere and start up a new language, that new language will contain a new word for everything that is there other languages of the world. And similarly, there will be a new word for Allah in that language as well. There will be a new way to translate Bismillah in that language as well. Can we deny these people the right to use these alternates and force them to use bismillah and nothing else?
Similary, as i said before, can we cast the usage of “in the name of Allah, the Benificient, the Merciful” as wrong too? why? why not?
Allah’s name?Ok then why not use 66 wherever Allah’s name is to be mentioned and 132(or 92?) wherever the prophet(SAW)'s name is to be mentioned?Why hasn’t anybody done that as yet?Why can other ayahs be allowed to be disrespected?Why treat them as sotaili??<<
Bismillah is used to start any and every task a muslim does…and that includes Allahs name. Bismillah is used at more places than anything else. While typing a letter, you wouldnt start it by writing ‘ya muhammad’ on top, would you? you would only start it in the name of Allah…and the ayah, bismillah adequately does that. And the whole ayah has been diminutized into a numeral, which all muslims know is translated as Bismillah.
Did I say it was Gunah by the way?<<
If you are not saying that, and if you are not branding it a bida’a, then why the opposition?
I think Eastern Analog,has patiently &persistently single handedly trying to get across to the opponent of 786.
Every body agrees that 786 is DISPENSABLE,IT HAS NO GREAT SIGNIFICANCE TO US.
How ever HAVENT YOU HEARD OF NAMING CHILDREN SO THERE DATE OF BIRTH CAN BE DERIVED FROM THE NAME ITSELF.It used to be called "tareekhi naam"Ppl. had 2 names & i know my tareekhi Naam which is when the letters are unravelled would add up to my dob(date of birth).In indo pak this is one reason why 786 is used as a substitute to write the whole sentence.
Let me ask you .all language is representive of somthing.Some body agreed to have I for aleef right otherwise I would be just another line.It is commonly understood meaning of symbol ,signs, numbers, letters that communicates otherwise its just a figure.Symbols are used to shorten the sentence or abbreviate complex sentences..
What the heck we neednt fight over such trivial things & if it pleases some muslim we should stop using it.
[quote]
Originally posted by The Watcher:
*Answer my simple question:
What would you rather use, bismilla or 786 at the top of your letter and such?
*
[/quote]
That question has been answered above, not once, but several times.
786 does not constitute an absolute alternate for bismillah. However, when using it at a place that is likely to be disrespected, 786 is a symbolic 'option' that people use.
If you promise to treat all letters as carefully as you would treat Quran, then use, people wouldnt have any problem writing Bismillah or any other ayah on them.
However, we all know that letters are tossed with the wind that blows beneath them. Hence the need to resort to a method which will ensure the sanctity of Allahs name.
personally, i feel that if this is somethign that creates fitna within the religion, just leave it. its' not worth it.<<
True....however, you have to expend adequate resources in trying to find out whether you are opposing a 'falsehood' or a 'misconception'. If you can convince yourself that you are opposing a falsehood, then yes, its best to leave it. If you figure out that it is a mere misconception, then its your choice whether or not you want to leave it. Because again, branding something unislamic just because you dont understand it is just as big a sin.
[This message has been edited by Eastern Analog (edited January 24, 2001).]
Bismillah is the original verse...and thats what is used. And if u feel comfortable writing Bismillah on a piece of paper that later on you will toss in the garbage, then thats your choice. For those who dont feel comfortable doing that, they choose the short numerical form of 786, which to them, means the same as Bismillah...hence the authenticity of the ayah is not compromised. But in effect, it also converts the ayah into a relatively harmless number, that does not contain any widely used reference to Allah's SWT name.
its like writing in "code" that only muslims will understand.
if u translated the entire Quran in a "code" ...it wouldnt be disrespected in the language that it was revealed.
sawaab is still for reading the word of Allah in Arabic alone. that is the foundation. everything else symbolic represents the foundation. when u read 786.. u dont read aloud "786".. u read "Bismillah..." since most muslims know this by heart.
When Allah or His messenger want to teach us something, they do so in the clearest way, far from puzzles and mystery numbers. All the efforts made by some Muslims to count letters and relate them to numbers are nothing but a waste of time. Sometimes they do so with good intention to show that our deen is great. Indeed our deen is great, and not in need of such erroneous approaches.
I am not against using 786, the reader does understand what writer meant by that. We can write s.a.w or a.s rather than writing the whole words, same in this case as long as reader and writer both know what it actually means.
Anyway coming back to alternatives, if someone doesnt find 786 convincing; I do have an alternative for you. My father told me to write :bism: in arabic with my index finger (right hand) before i start the exam. You get the satisfaction of starting the exam with name of the Almighty creator and dont have to worry abt someone droping the paper or other sources of disrepecting Kalam-e-pak.
Because DaPakiGuy has resurrected a thread that was in the archives for about 8 years and the people who started the conversation are long since gone and their account closed.
