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*Originally posted by soul: *
Francois Gautier, a hindu?
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Actually Francois Gautier is a Hindu.
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*Originally posted by soul: *
Umar,
Any Brit would tell you how glorious and magnus British empire was!! And how they brought civilization to uncivilised world volunteerily.
But the matter of fact is we did'nt want their voluntary service, and neither did we want that from khalifah.
You dont have to force your self to serve us, unless you had ulteerer motives for doing so.
Besides Baghdad and cairo...did not need islam for their refinement...even without it they were more civilised? so, were is the role of islam in their civilization??
And how many moslem noble prize winners can you think of today...how come they have stopped their research abruptly??Any idea!!
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Any brit ok i speak to brits and most of them ashamed of Britians Empire and what they have done.
The ones that are happy of the empire are the ones who are extreme nationalists and they are far and few in number.
1400 years of islamic civilisation and its coming back how many years more you give the secualr capitalism 150 years so far with 2 world wars, millions of people killed because of greedy secular politiicians, famine, sectarianism, racism, dictatorships, sanctions, one law for the rich one law for the poor i give secular capitalism about few more decades before it starts eating itself to death:)
following stastics shows totlaitarian states responsible for genocide
Taking both social definitions into account, governments have murdered probably around 174 million people during the 20th Century. Most of this killing, perhaps around 110 million people, is due to communist governments, especially the USSR under Lenin and Stalin and their successors (62 million murdered), and China under Mao Tse-tung (35 million). Some other totalitarian or authoritarian governments are also largely responsible for this toll, particularly Hitler’s Germany (21 million murdered) and Chiang Kai-chek’s Nationalist government of China (about 10 million). Other governments that have murdered lesser millions include Khmer Rouge Cambodia, Japan, North Korea, Mexico, Pakistan, Poland, Russia, Turkey, Vietnam, and Tito’s Yugoslavia.
Fundamentally, genocide is a product of the type of government a country has. There is a high correlation between the degree of democratic freedom a people enjoy and the likelihood that the government will commit democide. Modern democratic governments have committed virtually no domestic genocide. Those governments that commit the most genocide have been totalitarian governments, while those that committed lesser genocide have been partially or wholly authoritarian and dictatorial.
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1400 years of islamic civilisation and its coming back
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Is it??
a breaking news on PTV?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by armughal: *
its called TAX....
while muslims pay their annual tax in the form of the compulsory ZAKAT (2.5 % of their wealth), the non-muslims pay jizya....
why jizya????
thats because u dont want to force non-muslims to pay ZAKAT, which is a religious obligation, which wud mean u make them forcibly do something thats part of islam....
hence, they pay the tax as jizya....
any problems in paying tax????
or do u think islam is unfair that it wud ask muslim citizens to pay taxes while non-muslims live for free????
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Armughal, you also overlook one very important area where muslims and non-muslims differ in rights, where jizya plays a role.
An Islamic state has the right to conscript every able-bodied man and woman in time of jihad should the need arise. One the other hand, an Islamic state has no right to conscript a non-muslim.
Jizya differentiates Muslim citizens from non-muslim citizens in more ways than one; whereas Muslim citizens have an obligation to be prepared to lay down their lives in times of war, the non-Muslim citizens merely have an obligation to pay out some additional component of their income.
In somewhat more modern & realistic terms, what this means is that Muslim citizens of an Islamic state may well be compelled to undergo military training during their youth (such as what many European countries mandate for one to three years for their 18-year old citizens), whereas the non-Muslim citizen community would be freed from compulsory military training, in exchange for higher taxes through their lifetime.
Actually, since the thread began with a discussion of Khilafat government and I noticed some individuals here suggesting that it would be totalitarian, now might be a point at which to share Maulana Abul Ala Maududi’s words on the subject of the executive and legislature of a state acting on the principle of implement Khilafat in 1948.
http://www.jamaat.org/islam/IslamPol.html
The responsibility for the administration of the Government in an Islamic state is entrusted to an Amir (leader) who may be likened to the President or the Prime Minister in a Western democratic state. All adult men and women who accept the fundamentals of the constitution are entitled to vote in the election for the leader.
The basic qualifications for the election of an Amir are that he should command the confidence of the largest number of people in respect of his knowledge and grasp of the spirit of Islam; he should possess the Islamic attribute of fear of Allah; he should be endowed with the quality of statesmanship. In short, he should be both able and virtuous.
A Shura (consultative council), elected by the people, will assist and guide the Amir. It is obligatory for the Amir to administer the country with the advice of his Shura. The Amir can retain office only so long as he enjoys the confidence of the people, and must resign when he loses this confidence. Every citizen has the right to criticise the Amir and his Government, and all responsible means for the expression of public opinion should be available.
Legislation in an Islamic state should be within the limits prescribed by the Shari‘ah. The injunctions of Allah and His Prophet are to be accepted and obeyed and no legislative body can alter or modify them or make any new laws which are contrary to their spirit. The duty of ascertaining the real intent of those commandments which are open to more than one interpretation should devolve on people possessing a specialised knowledge of the law of Shari‘ah. Hence, such matters may have to be referred to a sub-committee of the Shã r~ comprising men learned in Islamic law. Great scope would still be available for legislation on questions not covered by any specific injunctions of the Shari‘ah, and the advisory council or legislature is free to legislate in regard to these matters.
In Islam the judiciary is not placed under the control of the executive. It derives its authority directly from the Shari‘ah and is answerable to Allah. The judges will obviously be appointed by the Government but, once appointed, will have to administer justice impartially according to the law of Allah. All the organs and functionaries of the Government should come within their jurisdiction: even the highest executive authority of the Government will be liable to be called upon to appear in a court of law as a plaintiff or defendant. Rulers and ruled are subject to the same law and there can be no discrimination on the basis of position, power or privilege. Islam stands for equality and scrupulously adheres to this principle in the social, economic and political realms alike.
First, Koran
asks for Jiziya from Zimmis (people of the book) only. Zimmis or dhimmis
are people of book religions (namely Jews and Christians). By Koranic
definition, Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, Animists, Pagans, Parsis and people
of other nonsemitic religions are polythiests.
are they "elevated" to dhmmi status just to get revenue?
here is a fatwa saying that Hindus, Sikhs, Parsis, etc are to be assigned dhimmi status so as to follow the commands of Allah SWT.
http://www.islamonline.net/fatwa/english/FatwaDisplay.asp?hFatwaID=84177
Question of Fatwa
Does Islam consider al-Majus (Magians who worship fire) and al-mushrikun or (polytheists) who live within the Islamic State as dhimmis (non-Muslims under the protection of Islamic rule) like the People of the Book, or do they have a special status?
Name of Mufti Dr. Muzammil Siddiqi
Content of Reply
In The Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.
Dear questioner, thank you very much for having confidence in us, and we hope our efforts, which are purely for Allah’s Sake, meet your expectations.
Throughout the history of Islam, non-Muslims have lived in peace along with Muslims under the ruling of the Islamic state. The blood of those non-Muslims is so sacred that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: “Anyone who kills a person from among the people with whom there is a treaty will not smell the fragrance of the Garden, although its fragrance reaches to a walking distance of forty years.” (Reported by al-Bukhari and others.)
He also said, “Anyone who kills a dhimmi will not smell the fragrance of the Garden.” (Reported by al-Nisa’i)
In his response to the question, Dr.Muzammil Siddiqi, former president of the Islamic Society of North America, states the following:
"Islam protects the freedom of religion of all people. The Qur’an says, “Let there be no compulsion in religion.” (al-Baqarah :256).
Any group of non-Muslims who live in the Islamic State have the right of protection or dhimmah. The Magians, Hindus, Buddhists, etc. are also entitled to the same protection that is given to the Ahl al-Kitab (People of the Book, i.e., Christians and Jews).
They are also entitled to have the freedom to practice their faith. During the Umayyad period when Muslims entered Sindh (now western Pakistan), they saw Hindus and Buddhists in that area. Muhammad ibn al-Qasim, the commander of the Muslim armies at that time, sent a letter to the Caliph asking him how he should treat them. The Caliph called a meeting of the ulama’ (scholars) and told them that the armies had met people who are neither Christians nor Jews. How should they be treated in Islam? The ulama’ gave their fatwa that these people should be treated like the People of the Book with the exception that Muslims will not marry their women and will not eat the meat slaughtered by them. This is the position that Muslims took with other groups as well when they came into contact with them in other lands."
http://terrorism.reallybites.com/pics/world_islamic_mission.gif
its map of Khalifaah !!
moslem super state… consisting of the worlds “super powers” : pakistan, Syria and Iran..
OH NO! what will become of us!!
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ak47: *
1400 years of islamic civilisation and its coming back how many years more you give the secualr capitalism 150 years so far with 2 world wars, millions of people killed because of greedy secular politiicians, famine, sectarianism, racism, dictatorships, sanctions, one law for the rich one law for the poor i give secular capitalism about few more decades before it starts eating itself to death:)
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the way you fundos are going about it, in a few years there'll be no muslims left in middle east.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT: *
here is a fatwa saying that Hindus, Sikhs, Parsis, etc are to be assigned dhimmi status so as to follow the commands of Allah SWT.
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The utopian state envisaged here of course can never exsist. My dear friend humans are frail and the willingness to treat non-muslims as mentioned above in teh Fatwa will never exsist. All you have to do is ask yourself if even 10% of this concern is shown to moniorities in Pakistan itself, which most people tend to agree is a muslim state....
The Khilafa will only be old wine in new bottle in this respect.
Pakistan is a MUSLIM state, not an ISLAMIC state.
It has an Islamic constitution, but not Islamic laws. Minorities (and countless other aspects of the country's governance) are not treated under rules based on Shariah principles
In Pakistan, the dhimmi system is not applied even though it is the clear command of God.
Jizya must be paid, even if (as has been done in the past) it is just a token sum.
Wondering why ppl who were so peacefully conquered and so well kept and fed, never speak about it ?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT: *
Pakistan is a MUSLIM state, not an ISLAMIC state.
It has an Islamic constitution, but not Islamic laws. Minorities (and countless other aspects of the country's governance) are not treated under rules based on Shariah principles
In Pakistan, the dhimmi system is not applied even though it is the clear command of God.
Jizya must be paid, even if (as has been done in the past) it is just a token sum.
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you can only control territory that
you win . what about the people you cant defeat miltartarily?
how muslims as prisoners of war treated if they are defeated
in war? what law should apply for muslim territory if occupied should be relgious law of winning army?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT: *
Pakistan is a MUSLIM state, not an ISLAMIC state.
It has an Islamic constitution, but not Islamic laws. Minorities (and countless other aspects of the country's governance) are not treated under rules based on Shariah principles
In Pakistan, the dhimmi system is not applied even though it is the clear command of God.
Jizya must be paid, even if (as has been done in the past) it is just a token sum.
[/QUOTE]
But my mention of the treatment meted out to non-muslims in the Muslim state ....well would that change in the Islamic state?
Considering that it is the same people I doubt that, I only fear that mistreatment will increase because of the "divine right" to do so...
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*Originally posted by Toddytapper: *
But my mention of the treatment meted out to non-muslims in the Muslim state ....well would that change in the Islamic state?
Considering that it is the same people I doubt that, I only fear that mistreatment will increase because of the "divine right" to do so...
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"Divine right" to do so where did you get that from.
your sources are dubious!
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*Originally posted by ak47: *
"Divine right" to do so where did you get that from.
your sources are dubious!
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Divine right being the three options to give non-believers.......
Anyway the point is when in a position of absolute power, the more extreme views can take control and that is the end for all non muslims...