Re: The name Umer according to Shia’s???
Re: The name Umer according to Shia’s???
Here is the hadith from Bukhari:well tht is your ignorance which you missed the most important things in the hadith thats why u dont even understand any small things.so this is invein to make you ppl understandbale.thats clearly means **bains ke aagey been bajana.**hope you’ll atleast consider this one.
*Volume 4, Book 52, Number 288: *
Re: The name Umer according to Shia’s???
Jinaab … khatoon. You still did not answer my question? You cited the hadith as evidence against Umer RZ actions. Prove it by the text of the hadith.
Re: The name Umer according to Shia’s???
“The Messenger of God said bring me a tablet (lawh) and an inkpot (dawat), so that I can write for you a document, after which you will not go astray”. Some people said that the Messenger of God was talking deliriously". Tarikh al-Tabari, Volume 9 translated by Ismail. K. Poonawala p 175
When Umar claimed that there was no need for Muhammad’s will since Umar had the Qur’an, Ibn Abbas rushed out crying, there he met Ubaidullah ibn Abdullah. According to him, Ibn Abbas used to say, “No doubt, it was a great disaster that Allah’s Apostle was prevented from writing for them that writing because of their differences and noise.” Sahih Bukhari 59.717 this is the hadith which you are asking for and if you see carefuly the words of Hz Umer then you can find out. if no then like i said its invein and one of my brother already explain sumthing about this in the above posts.so you may need to have a look at his answers. and plz kindly dont waist your time and mine too on this sort of things.we may not knows enough but which scholares said you should believe it cuz atleast they done some research on it.thanx
Re: The name Umer according to Shia’s???
I thought the Prophet PBUH was in illiterate, couldn’t read or write…Now,
Re: The name Umer according to Shia’s???
I thought the Prophet PBUH was an illiterate, couldn’t read or write…Now, why would he ask to brought a tablet and inkpot to write something…
Re: The name Umer according to Shia’s???
BOY-NICE, how can one concentrate on what happened when its really doubtful that it happened?
Re: The name Umer according to Shia’s???
Respected sister, here is the hadith:
*Volume 5, Book 59, Number 717: *
Narrated Ubaidullah bin 'Abdullah:
Ibn Abbas said, "When Allah’s Apostle was on his deathbed and there were some men in the house, he said, ‘Come near, I will write for you something after which you will not go astray.’ Some of them ( i.e. his companions) said, ‘Allah’s Apostle is seriously ill and you have the (Holy) Quran. Allah’s Book is sufficient for us.’ So the people in the house differed and started disputing. Some of them said, ‘Give him writing material so that he may write for you something after which you will not go astray.’ while the others said the other way round. So when their talk and differences increased, Allah’s Apostle said, “Get up.” Ibn Abbas used to say, “No doubt, it was very unfortunate (a great disaster) that Allah’s Apostle was prevented from writing for them that writing because of their differences and noise.”
Still no mention of Hazrat Umer. Let me make a very simple point. It is not confusing at all. How can you condemn someone to the point of completely ignoring him whom the Prophet SAW has commended. Does Prophet Muhammad SAW commendation mean nothing to you?
Another thing, history is fun to read and research however it is always written from the authors perspective no matter how unbiased the author may be. If history was so clear then we would not have so many arguments and differences about it, would we? Hadith are not written from a historical perspective therefore different scholars may attribute different historical accounts to it. One more thing, the hadith you are pointing to his not a hadith in the sense as being a religous commandment from the Prophet SAW meaning it is not implicating us in some sunnah that we are disobeying. So the difference is behind the historical account behind it not some commandment.
Re: The name Umer according to Shia's??????
And how did you reach to the follwing conclusion or may i say conjecture? Mere conjectures are not suffice to reject the accurence of an historical incident which is considered authentic and its not present at once that can be ignored on the basis of strange assumptions rather at four different places in Sahih al Bukhari and twice in Sahih Muslim and ulema have advanced their views on the tradition deeming the incident to be authentic . So please dont come with this new excuse that it never happened.
Re: The name Umer according to Shia's??????
Very interesting question indeed.
Re: The name Umer according to Shia’s???
nothing could be more derogatory and defamatory for the Prophet of Allah than this. Allah [swt] bestowed wisdom to his Prophet [s] of all Prophets, remember all prophets were given some miracles while our Last Prophe [s] was given all those miracles where were given to previous ones. No one even among the accusers of Him [s] being hallucinating advanced such an statement full of audacity rather they had a fear in their hearts, they know what He [s] was going to write which they didnt want Him to.
Re: The name Umer according to Shia’s???
Certain things have to be kept in mind:
As Muslims, our foremost belief is in the infallibility of the Quran which states that if Allah :swt: decress something, it will come to pass and if He doesn’t decree it, it shall not come to pass…
So the belief that the Holy Prophet :saw: was going to write something on a piece of paper regarding Islam and was somehow stopped from doing so is refuting the fact that Allah :swt: holds power over everything specially regarding His Messengers and Scriptures…
To refute the fact that part or portion of Islam was halted, stopped or interfered with by some human being is a form of Kufr…That is to say that Allah :swt: had decreed something to be revealed by the Holy Prophet :saw: (Because Prophets did not reveal or say anything regarding Deen which was not from Allah :swt:) but someone had the power to change the decree of Allah :swt:…That is plain and simple Kufr…
Also, we read in the Quran that the Holy Prophet (saw) was an ‘Unlettered’ Prophet, meaning he could neither read not write…
"So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, who believeth in Allah and His Words: follow him that ye may be guided. 7:158 Al-Araf"
So, Quran testifies to the fact that the Holy Prophet (saw) was indeed someone who could neither read nor write…
So to make conjectures or suppositions or to claim to have an idea of what the Holy Prophet (saw) was going to write, is another facet of Kufr…It is the Kufr of claiming to know the unseen, that the Holy Prophet (saw) was going to write this or that…Who knows what he was going to write?
And it is one of the miracles of the Quran, that such beautiful words of wisdom can be carried by a person who could neither read nor write…And Kuffar of the time of the Holy Prophet (saw) used to say the same thing, that he secretly learnt how to write and read and yet in front of everyone claimed to be illiterate…Kuffar still claim this today for they cannot believe that such words of wisdom can be coming from someone who is so uneducated that he can’t read or write…So they make up stories…
However, the Quran testifies to his not being able to read or write as is evidenced in the above Ayah…
Re: The name Umer according to Shia’s???
So you mean to say that they had foreknowledge of what he was going to say.
Kahin Hazrat Ali 
ki imamate ke baat tau nahee? Wah jee Wah.
Re: The name Umer according to Shia’s???
They indeed have what u said “foreknowledge” in way that they cought the wind what Prophet [s] was going to write to them. Just compare the words which He [s] said at that time:
‘Come near, I will write for you something after which you will not go astray.’
With what He[s] had said earlier:
“I am leaving you two weighty things, if you follow them you will net go astray, they are the Qur’an and my Ahlul’bayt”.
so He [s] just wanted to put things in black and white at that time while some opportunists did not even hesitate from throwing suspicion on the mental state of Holy Prophet [s] and raising their voices infront of Holy Prophet [s] so that His [s] voice is lowered.
Re: The name Umer according to Shia’s???
First of all the revelation had already been complete by that time so saying that someone prevented the revetion is nothing but ignorance.
This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion. [Quran, 5:3]
Secondly, no one is saying that anyone can stop Allah [swt]'s decree or ‘Will’. The point which needs to be kept in mind is that there are two things:
- Allah’s command.
- Allah’s will.
It is in the hands of the people either to adhere to the ‘commands’ of Allah [swt] and get on the path of paradise or to ‘reject’ the ‘commands’ of Allah [swt] and start the journey to Hell. For example, Allah [swt] has commanded us not to drink alcohol, but still people do not pay heed to the words of Allah [swt] and they drink it.
Coming to Allah’s will, no one can change or deny it but its only in His own hands to change. For example, if Allah [swt] ‘wills’ to send rain today, no one in the wolrd have any power whatsoever to prevent it.
Therefore, using the logic of Qadr in the “tragedy of thursday” is totally flawed.
*The word used in this verse is Ummi *which means the person who remains the same in his native endowments as was born, without receiving any education or training from any (outside) source. The Holy Prophet did not receive knowledge or education from any mortal but by Allah Himself. He was born with divinely endowed .wisdom and remained the same, without letting any worldly agency influence his self, tutored and perfected by Allah Himself.
Allah has revealed to you the book and the wisdom and taught you what you did not know. Great has been the grace of Allah on you. (NISA: 113)
There were some important elements of “kufr” invovled in the “tragedy of Thursday” which amazingly i didnt find in the post by Lajwab full of ‘Kufr’ elements in defense of the blasphemous attitute of a few people, which pushed me to post and give some food for thought.
The ‘Tragedy of Thursday’ shows three things:
1. Prophet [s] asked something which people standing there didnt obey. While Holy Verses commands:
Surah al Maidah verse 92** “Obey Allah and Obey his Prophet and worry, and be warned that the Prophet’s duty is only to deliver the message clearly”**
Surah Mujadilah verses 12-13** "Perform Salat (Prayer), give Zakat and Obey Allah and his Prophet"**
Surah Aal-e-Imran verse 32** Say, “Obey Allah and the Prophet, but if they turn back, then verily Allah does not love the disbelievers”**
Surah Anfal verse 20:*** “O ye who believe! Obey Allah and His Messenger, and turn not away from him when ye hear (him speak).”***
2. People started rasing their voice over Prophet’s voice while we read in Quran:
“…When they made much noise and quarreled greatly in front of the Prophet, he said to them, “Go away and leave me.” …” [Sahih Bukhari]
[49:2] O you who believe! do not raise your voices above the voice of the Prophet, and do not speak loud to him as you speak loud to one another, lest your deeds became null while you do not perceive.
3. The quarreled in a matter and didnt make Prophet [s] arbitrator while Quran commands us:
“…When they made much noise and quarreled greatly in front of the Prophet, he said to them, “Go away and leave me.” …” [Sahih Bukhari]
Surah Anfal verse 46*** “And obey Allah and His Messenger and do not quarrel?.”***
Surah Nisa verse 65 “But no, by the Lord, they can have no (real) Faith, until they make thee judge in all disputes between them, and find in their souls no resistance against Thy decisions, but accept them with the fullest conviction.” The words used here 'Thanaza" -dispute will have significance later
Surah AL-AHZAB, verse 36:* “It is not fitting for a Believer, man or woman, when a matter has been decided by Allah and His Messenger to have any option about their decision: if any one disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he is indeed on a clearly wrong Path”***
====
The follwing Holy verse gives ultimate commands inrespect of whatever happened on “Thursday”
Surah Hashr verse 7 "And whatsoever the messenger giveth you, take it. And whatsoever he forbiddeth, abstain (from it). And keep your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is stern in reprisal."
====
Re: The name Umer according to Shia’s???
good post
Re: The name Umer according to Shia’s???
Really? I don’t know about you, but I thought that the Danish cartoons were much more derogatory and defamatory than this.
Re: The name Umer according to Shia’s???
Yes Really Indeed! Dansh cartoons were made by non-muslims, who even dont know the iota of the exalted status of our Holy Prophet [s], one cannot expext from them anything better for our Prophet [s] but we see “Muslims” attributing stupidies to our blessed Holy Prophet [s] thats why i called it more derogatory!!! Got the context?
Re: The name Umer according to Shia’s???
thanx boy nice they wont understand the leadership of Hz Ali(a.s)neither that day when Prophet(p.b.u.h)asked for the pen and the paper and nor today what they are fighting or.if Hz Umer hasnt been say that thing to Prophet(p.b.u.h)then theres did not need to have a fight .Which already indicated.:o
Re: The name Umer according to Shia's??????
boy nice where are you?in the chating room?