[quote]
Originally posted by Baykhatr:
**Humble to others....."Farooq sahab, I really dont know whats wrong with degas (urf nanga urf baykhatr)?"
Look Mr. whoever you are, my screen name is Baykhatr. I have no connection with any nanaga and I do not have any urfs either. If you cannot stay on course, you will keep on looking for sympathies from others. But if it pleases you, be my guest.
But I have never called you names and I never intend to do that. Such are the traits of those who do not know how to stand their ground.
I changed my guppy face but I will not change my screen name. This is probably the last direct convesation I am having with you.**
[/quote]
Mr. bakhatr or whatever,
I am not looking for sympathies from anyone, all I know is that when you cannot prove your point, you start babbling. And please do not care to reply because this is my last conversation with you too. You are not worth my time. You wanna change your screenname, your name, or anybody else's name in your family, I care least. I guess its clear to you!
I will keep writing the Haq (truth)!!
Allah-o-akbar!
Humble bhai,
Dont worry about baykhatr or the other one, whats his name, degas. Talk to me. Ask me any questions you have about Islam and Sunnah of Rasool-Allah.
I always come with a clear mind when I talk to my friends. I am a follower of sunnah but have a bunch of Shia friends. I read some of your posts, they are very interesting, specially the one about "Love of Allah".
Concentrate on the spiritual posts you were posting before. This debate with illeterate ones will not do any good to you.
Humble what you have posted is insignificant. A muslim should follow the Islamic scripture and teachings of Mohammad(PBUH). Ali was just another human being and not someone to be worshipped or looked upon as a divine source of forgiveness. That's kufr!!
It is very interesting to see people jumping up and down whenever they see something like trees making names etc..
Is your faith so weak that you need to get affirmation from things outside..
I agree that there are signs everywhere for those who see.. as said in Quran.. but all you have to look at these signs is sit back and consider the world... a small speck in this galaxy... not even the universe.. and then consider yourself in comparison with this universe.. insignificant..
So with that in mind.. consider this.. There is a purpose for us on this planet.. and i am quite sure it is not infighting and one upmanship to prove who is right and who is not.. It is all pointless in the end as whatever we do there will be splinters in the ummah (as said in Hadith) and no one knows who is on the right path..
so my advice is stop bikcering and actually do something for the benefit of our people..
How many of us actually spend time doing community service.. helping our fellow human beings.. in the end thats all that would count.. All your sins will be forgiven if you with a clear consience except the sins against your fellow man..
With that i rest my case.. and say.. stop this pointless exercise of trying to find names etc.. as i can make names out of the fuzz you see when a channel stops broadcasting as well... so if you think you seething.. you will//
[quote]
Originally posted by outlaw: Humble what you have posted is insignificant. A muslim should follow the Islamic scripture and teachings of Mohammad(PBUH). Ali was just another human being and not someone to be worshipped or looked upon as a divine source of forgiveness. That's kufr!!
[/quote]
Mr Outlaw,
**
I disagree with you. Miracles are and had been a part of Islamic History. Thosands of people have seen the name Ali written on Moon in Arabic. Well, if you dont wanna believe , dont!
No force, because there is no force in religion and also read your post before calling something kufr. Moulvis are already a pin in the a** to give fatwas, millions in number. You can keep your fatwas to yourself.
You have a right to give your viewpoint and thats all. No need to impose your ideas on thers. To have faith in miracles is a unified Islamic faith. I believe in it alongwith the majority here. Read the posts and replies here and in image gallery and you'll get the point and general public's view.
**
Humble
[This message has been edited by Humble (edited September 21, 2000).]
Humble, as a muslim, I am requesting you to give up worhipping of Ali. No denial, that Alis was very dear to the Prophet(PBUH), and will be the leader of all males in Jannat. Yet, he was still an ordianry man.
[quote]
Originally posted by outlaw:
*Humble, as a muslim, I am requesting you to give up worhipping of Ali. No denial, that Alis was very dear to the Prophet(PBUH), and will be the leader of all males in Jannat. Yet, he was still an ordianry man. *
[/quote]
**
Mr Outlaw,
I really wonder what makes you think I worship Imam Ali (nauzobillah). Are you in your senses Mr.? Worshipping anyone except Allah will make one kafir. This is my belief , I dont know about your belief. Maybe worshipping Abdul wahab or abdul Aziz is a part of your faith.
And listen Mr., this is a forum and I guess you all are moderators (though you never act like one). No need to give me threats. Understand. Post like a moderator or quit this job Mr.
**
Humble
Originally posted by Humble:
** Mr Outlaw,
I really wonder what makes you think I worship Imam Ali (nauzobillah). Are you in your senses Mr.? Worshipping anyone except Allah will make one kafir. This is my belief , I dont know about your belief. Maybe worshipping Abdul wahab or abdul Aziz is a part of your faith.
And listen Mr., this is a forum and I guess you all are moderators (though you never act like one). No need to give me threats. Understand. Post like a moderator or quit this job Mr.
**
Humble
Dear Humble, even if we consider hypothetically that Ali's name is written on the moon, it still doesn't elavate his stature from an ordinary man to a messiah.
[This message has been edited by outlaw (edited September 21, 2000).]
Well, thats what you think Mr outlaw. I disagree. He was not Messiah though, he was Imam. Imam means leader, leader of ummah(faithful). Ali(a.s) was not and I repeat NOT prophet. He used to call himself the "servant of Prophet (s.a.w.w)", but Prophet Mohammed (s.a.w.w) called him his brother,
"Ya Ali! anta akhi fid-dunya wal-akhira"
"Oh Ali! you are my brother in this world and the world hereafter!"
And offcourse he was the wali of Allah and Khalifatullah (Khalifa appointed by Allah and his Prophet).
Humble.
[This message has been edited by Humble (edited September 21, 2000).]
And where were yr companions - Umar, Abu Baker and the rest, mentioned in the Qur'an for nomination to calipha ?
And btw, there are many verses in the Qur'an that show the greatness of Imam Ali (as), the holy ahl-bait, and Imam Mahdi (as).
When the prophet is an illetrate normal human being in yr wahabi opinions, then what chance do the ahl bait have ?
You people have degraded to a status lower than the previous prophets for by yr definition, Jesus (as) is greater than our holy messenger - still living and born without a father.
Girl from Qurash - I heard a lot of good things about you but I don't see anu actions from you when a stooge from yr group is posting childish messages on this board.
When do you intend to take actions - or won't you since he is a moderator just like you ?
Let me reitterate myself; Ali was just a Kaliph and one of the Prophet's(PBUH) dearest comapnions .
My open challenge to you and all your friends. Bring any Quranic Ayyah which awards him a higher stature, I'ld be glad to dispute on the basis of facts. Refrain from personal attacks, please.
[This message has been edited by outlaw (edited September 21, 2000).]
Imam Ali (as) is second after the prophet of Allah (as) in status.
Go read yr sahih books for clarification as well as several prior threads that I have opened previously.
They also have the quranic verses to suppport the wilayat of Imam Ali (as).
I am not going to waste my time reiterating all what I have presented over the past couple of months just because u decide to show up now to join this discussion.
Dear AllShah, In order to accommodate you and respect the integrity of this forum , I am posting this message under my own name. That's the best I can do.
I would like to know the Quranic Ayyahs which affirm Ali as second to Mohammad(PBUH), Thank you kindly.
all who are asking few of those who are uttering that Sydena Ali, was apointed Imam by Allah, and then it is to be followed by the remaining 11 Imams, ought to know that the references brought forward by Shias will differ than the Qura~n, the entire Muslim Umma has as we know it.
One of the most respected Shia scholars, from Najaf, (they mostly hail from Najaf!) Mirza Husain bin Mohammad Taqi An-Nawari At-Tabarsi, (yes he is one person!) wrote in 1292 A.H. the book Fasul-Khitaab fee Ithbatti Tahreefi Kitaab Rabbil-Arbaab (The divisive Say on the Proof of Alteration of the Book of the Lord of Lords), that Qura~n has been altered and the a Sura ul Walaayah has been expunjed from it by Sunni folks.
In Pakistan this book is more popularly available as 'Tuhfat ul awaam ul maqbool. It is like a dowry item by shia mother to be given to every daughter.
I challenge you to bring forth any proofs stating that any Shia scholar has stated that the Qur'an is in-complete.
In fact, read yr sahih bukhari where Umar and Aisha have quoted explicitly the missing of certain ayats in the Qur'an.
You wahabras will never stop at spreading yr falsehood. Allah's curse be on those that accuses the momin of such false charges.
You sunnis and wahabis would have deleted passages from the Qur'an if it explicitly contained the wilayat of Imam Ali (as) by mentioning his holy name. That is why Allah Almighty in his infinite wisdom presented the Qur'an with both direct and ambiguous meanings. It is only for the Holy prophet (pbuh) and his holy imams to present their correct intrepretations.
I am a Shia and am learned in most Shia books of theology. I dare you to present the rubbish that you have spoken.
Why go back to a 12th century scholar - why don't you pick up a contemporary book on Shia beliefs and read what it says.
Your falsehood, like yourself, will be destroyed in due process.
It is our fundamental belief that:
1) There is no diety but Allah (swt)
2) That Muhammed (pbuh) is His servant, the greatest messenger, and the seal of prophethood.
3) That the Quran is complete and free from error and that its protection is guaranteed by Allah (swt) Himself.
Islam is indeed under threat since wahabi agents poised as so called muslims are bent on splitting the ummah from within the folds of islam.
[This message has been edited by Girl from Quraysh (edited September 22, 2000).]