The Makings of a War - Pakistan vs India

Society Military and Strategic Issues
1

It always starts with an incident and blows up in war.

I, for one, am reading with increasing apprehension about the clouds of war getting deeper and darker over the skies of sub-continent. The attack on Indian Parliament may be the precursor of a bigger and worst tragedy. No one denies the deep and historic troubles between the two countries, however, now it seems, a third (or a fourth) war is becoming increasingly likely.

The only silver lining in the horizon, and its a very small silver lining indeed, is that we are all hoping that the United States will prevent India from any mis-adventure. The fact that both Pakistan and India are nuclear powers is also a factor that should weigh in with both the countries and the world powers.

The situation is uncomfortable. Not only for Pakistanis but also for Indians. War is never nice. It brings misery and destruction and heart-ache. Its nothing but trouble.

The catalyst of the present crisis is Pak government’s refusal to ban the two militant islamic groups. Pak govt wants India to provide evidence of their involvement. While logically the stance of Pak govt is correct, from a practical point of view, anyone who has lived in Pakistan, and has seen the flyers these two organizations distribute outside mosques, know that they flaunt their ability to carry out military strikes inside India. Its not a secret. Admirable as this may be, in the present geo-political situation this is hardly a credible position. The tide has turned against cross-border military strikes. Even Hamas suspended their atatcks on Israel, today. This is just not a viable option any more. Its stupid.

The intelligent thing for Pak government will be to ban these two militant organizations and work with the Indian government to ensure that acts of violence are not spread all over India or Pakistan. A destabilized India is in no one’s interest, just as a destabilized Pakistan is in no one’s interest. We all know, that weak governments, anywhere, need a distraction for their people, and war is the most common solution.

Despite all my reservations about Indian government and the suspicion that they may have stage-managed this incident themselves (just like the plane - Ganga - hijacking 30 years ago), this is not the time to engage in legalistic babbling. Its time to act, and to act statesmanlike. War is no good at this time.

This is my personal opinion.

2

Thats the idea hindus try to float but trust me 4 dozen are enough to extend Indian ocean all the way to Chinese border. Don’t tell us India is using restraint thats an excuse for losers. The bottom line is BahRAT knows the meaning of suicide

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

opps!! even I have started using grins without reason

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[This message has been edited by Abdali (edited December 21, 2001).]

3

abdali why then 90,000 pakistani forces surrendred in bangaldesh? i am not saying
you have to be irrartional to prove
you are a “martial race”.

4

[quote]
Originally posted by rvikz:
** abdali why then 90,000 pakistani forces surrendred in bangaldesh? i am not saying
you have to be irrartional to prove
you are a "martial race". **
[/quote]

You so convinently forget Bengalis who were in majority or is Indian history distorted there too.

After two wars you still couldn't wrestle AK why? can't you do BD in AK or is it because Bengalis are not there.

If India has little shame it must attack Pak for assemly bombing or you Indians should just shutup. coz we are fedup of your ranting and raving for last 12 odd years.

5

Abdali, be patient. These things take time.
Why would you want India or any country to attack another country?
Toba, Toba

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

All we can do is give you a spade for you to dig your own grave. You did an excellent job in 1971. So based on the past record I would recommend that Indian Government take the same approach again

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6

We did excellent in 71 thanks to Bengalis but you are doing great since 700AD. Not to mention 48/62/65/99 Now let me see who bought 500 coffins and 3000 body bags and who sits on top of 5353/5340.

12 years of ranting and raving and taking up yours you must have lot of patience America did not wait few weeks. Oops america is a republic and you a banana republic

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hehe.gif

here is your famous grin

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[This message has been edited by Abdali (edited December 21, 2001).]

7

Well, here is a positive move from Pakistani side! :slight_smile: Sooner or later the other will come too!
Pakistan freezes militants’ cash

Lets see how India responds to it!

[This message has been edited by ahmadjee (edited December 21, 2001).]

8

What it does best rant and rave, last time it was jasso on GWBs feet when something was blown in Kashmir. Who knows this time it will some other side kick.. Just sit back and listen to their screams all the way to Washington.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

9

Seems like too little, too late. Apparently, Pak has frozen bank accounts of the org where those nuke scientists worked. Whereas India is demanding action against Lashkar-e-Taiba and Jaish Muhammad.

And to those who somehow think, that having nukes will do some miracle, you have another think coming. There is not a single scenario you can depict where either of these countries will ever use a nuclear weapon. This is just a deterrance, but if push comes to shove, no one will use it. US and Russia were dead-locked in a cold war for 40 years and never once used nukes. The only time nukes were used, was against Japan which was not a nuclear power.

So, those ppl whose only recourse is to call names show the shallowness of their intellect and the dismal failure of learning any ettiquettes for public boards. They are advised to stay away from this thread, better still, stay away from the forum altogether.

And, frankly I don't think recounting past mistakes by either countries proves a reliable barometer for what is gonna happen. This will be a conventional war, if sadly, it ever comes to that. THe war will break out in Kashmir, where India will violate the LoC to attack camps, and then an airware will ensue. World powers will immediately call Security Council and try to stop the war. Depending upon the severity of the situation, the war may move south to Punjab and Sind borders. Not a pretty sight.

10

[quote]
Originally posted by MJ:
**Seems like too little, too late. Apparently, Pak has frozen bank accounts of the org where those nuke scientists worked. Whereas India is demanding action against Lashkar-e-Taiba and Jaish Muhammad.

And to those who somehow think, that having nukes will do some miracle, you have another think coming. There is not a single scenario you can depict where either of these countries will ever use a nuclear weapon. This is just a deterrance, but if push comes to shove, no one will use it. US and Russia were dead-locked in a cold war for 40 years and never once used nukes. The only time nukes were used, was against Japan which was not a nuclear power.

So, those ppl whose only recourse is to call names show the shallowness of their intellect and the dismal failure of learning any ettiquettes for public boards. They are advised to stay away from this thread, better still, stay away from the forum altogether.

And, frankly I don't think recounting past mistakes by either countries proves a reliable barometer for what is gonna happen. This will be a conventional war, if sadly, it ever comes to that. THe war will break out in Kashmir, where India will violate the LoC to attack camps, and then an airware will ensue. World powers will immediately call Security Council and try to stop the war. Depending upon the severity of the situation, the war may move south to Punjab and Sind borders. Not a pretty sight.**
[/quote]

Given free hand with Russkie toys hindus once again would have tried to wrestle AK and dream of tea party at Lahore Gymkhana..Nukes have served their purpose hindus were educated by uncle sam about the meaning of suicide.

Every analyst in the west and east predicts Pak will use nukes if...........

Hud tho dobay hein sanam tumey bhe ley dhobein gey.

For the moment just listen to rantings and ravings from across.

11

India and Pakistan on the brink of war
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,2001570014-2001583290,00.html

12

it should be india v/s pakistan
cause india is leading the way and the hawks in india seem to be gaining ground and preparing the ground and the public opinion for war

13

The wars of 1965 and 1971, Pakistan were the initiator. In both occasions Pakis did not seek permission from Uncle Sam and result was humiliation and breakup.

If India starts a war with the permission of Uncle Sam; it would only be disastrous for Pakistan. If not, both countries would suffer disaster. And it is true that Pakistan would suffer more than India because of the size and modern weaponry acquired from Russia and the West.

FARID

14

I think right now, India is playing the old game of boxing Pakistan into a corner.
It is amusing. Like Kargil again

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http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

However I don’t think any non-conventional war will break out.
If it comes to that I think Uncle Sam will act.
The Marines are already in the Land Of The Pure Right?

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif

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15

Andhera boy how shamless can you get the heart of BahRAT mata is attacked you gona sit there and do nothing. Screaming all the way to ur new US master may help a bit but you will pussy out again.

Here I got this from Chinese forum have fun. http://www3.sympatico.ca/gul.khan/ca121801flag.jpg

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hehe.gif

16

Hey MJ you misintrepreted what i was trying to say what i meant was when i read this post i thought to myself what is INDIA is playing at and secondly yaar trust me sooner or later we both will press the little red button.

And also i think you must have a very large I.Q. by questioning my INTELLECT lest put it this way it is enough.

Secondly i am trying o make friends not enemy's i have enough of them in real life and also if we went to war would all the Pakistani's albe to fight join the Armed Forces?

Let me know!
The_jackal

[Quote]
I count i count down to the hour the hour of DOOM.......
[Quote]

Happy Christmas
God Bless

17

I think I will second MJ and leace out name calling and silly posturing.
If war breaks out, what is the scenario?

1.Pakistan violates LOC. Like Kargil again.
It is significant that the Jehadis didn’t resort to a Kargil like operation, which alone proves in my mind that the parliament bombing happened despite Pak. Army, by people they were supposed to control.

2.Another Incident like Parliament bombing happens and India crosses LOC in ‘Hot Pursuit’.

3.OBL and gang end up in Kashmir and US starts chasing them. They press towards India and India says Thank You and joins the festival!!

4.India/ Pakistan try to open a new front in Rajasthan Border( A favourite dream on both sides, especially Pak)

5.Nothing Happens

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Kashmiri’s condition will just get worse.

18

There will be no war until US troops are on the Pakistani soil. India is acting like a stupid idiot they will have to bite there own toung in few days. India can bark as much as they like but it will produce no results.

19

Much as I will love to cheer the argument that India will not indulge in any adventure in Pakistan because USA will not allow it, I hate to say that the past history of Pak-US relations give me very little to trust this argument. USA is never a friend. You can never trust it.

In fact, I suspect that US will not mind if India destroys Pakistan's nuclear weapons. PAkistan's nuclear program has never digested well in Washington, and since they'd not wish to engage directly for whatever reasons, the policy-makers in Pentagon and State Department will not lose any sleep if India destroys (or tries to destroy) Pak's nuclear assets. That will be a big set-back to the so-called "Islamic bomb".

So, sorry. The argument that US will somehow protect Pakistan does not wash at all. China card may still work, and that is why Mushy is in Peking right now. Lets hope sanity prevails.

20

MJ, stop peeing in your pants, and instead of walking around like a paranoid goof why don't you ask your RSS buddies to reign in their terrorists in Kashmir. Hamas only put a halt on attacks, not due to international pressure, but to preserve the unity amongst the Palestineans. Alhtough, looking at the past experiences, I am afraid that sooner than later Israel will deliberately try to sabotage the cease-fire, and Hamas will be left with no choice but to strike back on Israel.

Giving the current situation in Kashmir, do you really expect any mercy for Indian soldiers who have been raping muslim mothers in front of their kids, executing young muslims in cold blood and burning down entire villages to avenge the killing of an Indian soldier. Don't come here and give your apologetic crap to us. The current manoeuvres are carefully staged to suppress anykind of Jehad in Kashmir, by putting direct international pressure on Pakistan. India can sever all diplomatic ties, cut trade all they want. But, it will not dare to attack Pakistan. It is well aware of the concequences, and destruction that Pakistan is capable of inflicting upon India. The politicians in India are desperately trying to expoit the situation- ever since the war began in Afghanistan. First it was unprovoked attack which destroyed eight posts along the LoC, and now another carefully orchestrated act to corner Pakistan.

In case the war breaks out, it won't be American soldiers fighting with Pakistan, but the mujahids of LeT and Hizb-ul-Mujahideen. When there's a witch hunt going on against every organization who in one way or another is involved in Jehad, we don't need people like you in Pakistan who would like to ban organization who have fought with heart n' soul against the Indian occupation. You can sit with your zionist buddies and cheer all you want, but leave the defence of Pakistan and Kashmir to the Muslims.