the light of this dark age

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

I am the light of this dark age; he who follows me will be saved from falling into the pit prepared by the Devil for those who walk in darkness. I have been sent by God to lead the people of the world to the true God through peace and humility, and to reassert the reign of morals in Islam. God has provided me with heavenly signs, for the satisfaction of seekers after truth. He has done wonderful things in my support; He has disclosed to me secrets of the unseen and of the future which, according to the holy books, is the sign of a true claimant to divine office, and He has vouchsafed to me holy and pure Knowledge. Therefore, the souls which hate truth and are pleased with darkness, have turned against me.

-Mirza ghulam ahmad of qadian, the promissed messiah, peace be upon him.

2

gimme a break

3

what actually is your point?

4

Nice speech, but it should be titled as 'Darkness of the Dark ages.'

Just a thought........

5

hang on ... isn't he the bloke who said Jesus is dead?

If he is, then i would have chinned him one.

NOTE to ADMIN: I'm sorry if my language seems a little harsh, but these Akmedies are insulting the Christians as well as Muslims. They're not tolerating other religions, by insisting that Jesus is dead, and in the process being very offensive.

6

John, A human can live like faries in fairytales only (or Star Trek).

By considering Jesus alive you have killed Christianty by your own hands.

Whatelse you can do beside acusing?? eh!
I have a long list of questions, perhaps you can answer just one.. let me know when you are ready..

xalim :::: [email protected]

[This message has been edited by Zalim (edited May 27, 1999).]

7

How many a prophet we sent among the ancients, but not even a single prophet came to them which they did not mock at.

(koran chapter 43, ornaments, verse 7,8 )

dear john.
did my post say that jesus is dead?
please note that we are running moderator-less, and it would be in our very interest that if we want this religious forum to be a part of gupshup, we must act like civilized people and show considerable control over our tongue.

Admin alone should not be responsible for all that has been happening since long in the religious forum. members should grow up too. this is OUR forum, and we need to be sincere to it!

anyways
i have a deal for you.
a tit for tat deal.

"i hereby announce that i believe jesus to be pious and righteous. I show great respect to him and believe that disrespecting jesus is disrespecting god. I also announce that jesus was true in what he preached."

can you make a similar announcement about prophet mohammad to get into a deal? the ball is in your court.

8

no advancement john?

9

so Jewels do you believe that Prophet Mohammad (SAW) is the last prophet of Allah?

10

Dear Jak,
This verse stops me from believing so:

" O Children of Adam! If there should come to you, messengers from among you, relating my signs to you, then whosoever is godfearing, and makes amends- no fear shall be on them, niether shall they sorrow. And those that deny our signs, and wax proud against them- those shall be the inhabitants of fire, therein dwelling forever"
( the koran, chapter 7, the battlements, verse 36 )

=========================================

This is great shamelessness on the part of john, that he himself wants his religious figure to be respected, while completely refuses to respect other people's religious figures.

dear john, is this what chrstianity is all about? if yes, then why are you so interested in dissing islam?

Come back, if you have courage to accept the truth and make this deal with me, as i suggested above. Running away isnt changing the facts.

you have presented a shameful picture of christianity by your behaviour. this thread is a proof over it.

11

Jewels can I answer his questions?

Well Jak, here is a short reply from my side.

::::: Jak says: “what actually is your point?”

First of all, these words though very strong are yet very simple and easy to comprehend. It says that the author of this quote was appointed by Allah and over here he is meant to call everyone toward HIM. For him, Allah has supported his rank by numerous divine signs which were mention in the Holy Books, But only who is blessed by the Allah’s special endorsement can validate his true claim. The ineffectual hatred, what people generally possess is preserving them in darkness only and nothing else.

::::: Jak says: ”..do you believe that Prophet Mohammad (SAW) is the last prophet of Allah?”

well this is not the topic of the thread, but on your keen insist, I would like to jot some words. Hope you will find something informative.

I, as an Ahmadi-Muslim accept Holy Prophet(sa) as the Last of all the Prophets in the sense what Holy Prophet(sa) himself has explained and not in the sense what the people generally believe in. Here is just a well known quote from Bukhari’s Book;

[quote]

The Sahih of Muslim by Abu’l Husain Muslim (Kitabul Haj Fazlis Salaat, pg. 531)

‘I am the Last of the Prophets and my mosque is the Last mosque’.

[/quote]

What do you understand by this?? Well its crystal clear that even though the Holy Prophet called himself the "last of the prophets", it should not be taken in its literal meaning, for then one would have to believe that the Prophet (pbuh) also implied that there would not be any mosque after his. Any one who has seen a mosque has probably seen one that was constructed after the Holy Prophet's. The real meaning inferred by the Holy Prophet (pbuh) is clearly "of the greatest rank", or "highest in rank" rather than "last" in order of time.

Need more quotes?? the stronges quote is Allah himself, ask him if you are a truth seeker. Believe me HE is still alive, HE will answer you.. dont be afraid !

Think about that !*

12

Dear Zalim

refering to my 1st post:
I did'nt questioned what Mirza Ghulam Ahmad said. My point was why this has been posted? what is the purpose of just posting one statement of your prophet or whatever you would like to call him. this is, I believe is a discussion board, so if it is related to some topic or the author want the participants to comment then it should be clear, as it is not a general forum.

refering to my 2nd post:

I believe that Ahmadies dont believe in being the last prophet of Mohammad (SAW)as do the Muslims, that is, for us there is no prophet after Mohammad (SAW), so when Jewel made a statement for John, i thought i should request a clarification about his belief.

I personally believe that one should practise his/her religion strictly and should not interfere or critisize the others unless and untill others try to disturb your faith / religion. so I dont need any quotes from anywhere to believe in your ideology, I trust on mine. :)

13

Brother JAK,
Please don't get upset by the obvious futile attempts by these Ahmadis to discredit our prophet by taking away his esteemed title of "Khatam Annabi" and badmouthing our scholars. If you will see how they and their beliefs are treated in Pakistan, you would understand their psychology. They are vindictive and will not forgo any attempt to defame Islam and further divide it by introducing their own brand of Islam.

Alhamdollilah, we will always have the Quran and sunnat to guide us more than any false prophet who tries to serve as the mouthpiece for Allah. As I have said before, Mirza can be held as nothing more than a casual reformer. Even in that capacity, he has miserably failed to attract a vast majority of people. I don't think the Mahdi would suffer such a humiliation when he arrives.

14

Chapter: 7, Al'Aaraf - the Heights
Subject: Invitation to the Divine Message
[Please note that this is not the Ahmadi translation]

[quote]

::: Topics and their Interconnection of the chapter by **Maududi**

vv. 1 – 10 In this passage, the people have been invited to follow the Message sent down to them through Muhammad (Allah's peace be upon him) and warned of the consequences of its rejection.
vv. 11 – 25 The story of Adam has been related with a view to warning his descendants against the evil devices of Satan who is ever ready to mislead them as he did in the case of Adam and Eve.
vv. 26 – 53 This passage contains some Divine instructions, and contrasts these with Satan's instructions, and depicts a graphic picture of the results and the consequences of the two.

::: Translation of verse **007.035* by;*

YUSUFALI: O ye Children of Adam! whenever there come to you messengers from amongst you, rehearsing My signs unto you,- those who are righteous and mend (their lives),- on them shall be no fear nor shall they grieve.
PICKTHAL: O Children of Adam! When messengers of your own come unto **you who narrate unto you My revelations, then whosoever refraineth from evil and amendeth - there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.
**SHAKIR: O children of Adam! if there come to you messengers from among you relating to you My communications, then whoever shall guard (against evil) and act aright-- they shall have no fear nor shall they grieve.
Nobel’Quran: O Children of Adam! If there come to you Messengers from amongst you, reciting to you, My Verses, then whosoever becomes pious and righteous, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

[/quote]

Qadeer bahi ! these are neither mine nor Jewels scrabbled words, these are the words of Allah. If you believe in him, then go through His book and try to interpret this verse by your self using Arabic lexicons or any means.

It is the beauty of Quran that this form of address has been employed with a view to introducing an important subject, which was to be conveyed to future generation of mankind. The verse says that “if messengers come to you..” do not mean that guidance might or might not come. Indeed the word *“if” * is intended to mean that if you happen to live at a time when a messenger of God appears, you should not fail to accept him - the time is unfixed.

The same form of address is ascribed in verses, ** [7.26] [7.27] [7.31] [7.172] [17.70] [36.60] **. Can you verify that all these verses doesn’t carry any message for the generation after Mohammad(sa). Then why are they revealed to Him(sa), why not to the earlier prophets or Adam precisely?

Your Quran and Sunah, which seems to be your property are just meant to be kept in lockers, Whats the use of it if you cant spare the time to remove the dust from it, atleast.

Qadeer, atleast you think somewhat better than the majority by considering him a Reformer (Mujjaddad). Sir, Do reformers lie??? a lier cant be a reformer.

And regarding your objection about “humiliation of Mahdi”, I have answered it on your other reply. This humiliation is also a sign of truth. .. ager sub he itni aasani say Mehdi ko qabool kerlain to to yay insaan ki fitrat kay khilaf baat ho gee.. Hum to pehlay he aik Mehdi ko qabool ker chukay hain.. jab aap ka Mehdi aa’ay ga to us ko bhi Rasool Allah ka salam kah dain gay.. dont worry be happy.. we will not be among the disbelievers.

JEWELS, this is also not the topic of this thread.. I appologize

[This message has been edited to make the reference more prominent for JAK]

[This message has been edited by Zalim (edited May 31, 1999).]

15

jak,
o I dont need any quotes from anywhere to believe in your ideology, I trust on mine.

As an alternative, take the koranic teaching into consideration:

There has never been a prophet before you, which the rich men did not say, "we indeed found our forefathers upon a community, and we are following upon their traces. " they reply, "what if i should bring you a better guidance than you found your forefathers upon?" they say, "We disbelieve in that, you were sent with."
( chapter 43, ornaments, verse 24, 25)

i qadeer,
I don't think the Mahdi would suffer such a humiliation when he arrives.

Koran however, thinks different:

How many a prophet we sent among the ancients, but not even a single prophet came to them which they did not mock at.

( chapter 43, ornaments, verse 7,8 )

16

Dear Jewels,

My ideology is based on Quran and Sunnah, and i trust the translation of only those scholars whom I have faith not from anyone or just from any book, since i dont know arabic. So based on that i still believe that there is no prophet after Mohammad (SAW). It does'nt matter to me what meaning you (Ahmadies) extract from Quranic verses. :)

17

JAK, please go through my reply, above. I have quoted the translation (first 2 para) from your authentic Qurans and Maududi’s intro of the chapter.

You have no space for objection now but denial can rule over anything.

[PS: If you have time please read the other verses I have referred later.]

May Allah be your Hafiz

18

Dear Jewels

How many a prophet we sent among the ancients, but not even a single prophet came to them which they did not mock at.

Yet you forget to mention who these prophets were rejected by: The kuffar, mushriks etc.
Your Mirza has been declared a heretic by the MUSLIM ULEMAS ** of more or less all the denominations unanimously and their fatwas have public support of all sunnis. Does the word **Muwahhid as against a mushrik means any thing to you?.

One more point that you cunningly did not mention is that the previous prophets have always ended up being successful against their enemy. Yet in Mirza's case it seems quite the other way around.

Brother, if you have the slightest sense, you would see the fallacy of your beleifs and instead of hoping to see some help from Allah that will never arrive you should accept the fact that Mirza was nothing more than an imposter.

19

Dear brother,

straight to the point! the deciding point!
i provided you a point, that all prophets are humiliated, and koran straightforwardly proved my point!

you replied:

One more point that you cunningly did not
mention is that the previous prophets
have always ended up being successful >against their enemy.

Which verse??? dear brother, which verse of the koran told that to you? i did not leave this piece of information "cunningly", but because i have never read it. If you have, share it with us!
Make you point with koran! it is interesting that you call me a kafir yet i make my point with koran. You claim to be a muslim yet make hollow points without any support from the koran.

Reply justly, please, my brother, should we follow the point supported by the koran? or the one which came out of you when you were confused enough to give me any other reply?

Quote the koran, prove your point!

Koran relates most of the prophets being rejected, and the people being chastised for rejecting their prophet. Please look neutrally at the situation in pakistan to realize the chastisement.

If you do not believe in my point, please quote koran! be straight!

20

So our dear i qadeer could not prove his point from the koran!

i will start counting the thread where such things happen, that you make a claim, cant prove it and run away without even a slightest hint of an apology for saying something without knowledge!

so count this as thread #1 !