the light of this dark age

Society Religion & Philosophy
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So our dear i qadeer could not prove his point from the koran!

Not so fast Jewels sahib. Even though I call it against my principle to indulge in the meaning of Quran without the help of an Alim, I would however accept Jewel's challenge and put forth a few ayaats that I have come across and whose meaning relates to the subject of punishment inflicted upon the people who rejected the call of their prophets.

I would like to however point out, that according to sunnis it is a must to understand the Quran in the light of the hadith. Mr Jewels may see it differently but then again he likes to interpret the Quran metaphorically to change its meaning. Without further ado here they are:

*Seest thou not how thy Lord dealt with the 'Ad (people), Of the (city of) Iram, with lofty pillars, The like of which were not produced in (all) the land?
And with the Thamud (people), who cut out (huge) rocks in the valley? And with Pharaoh, lord of stakes? (All) these transgressed beyond bounds in the lands,
And heaped therein mischief (on mischief). Therefore did thy Lord pour on them a scourge of diverse chastisements(89:6-13)

Never comes (aught) to them of a renewed Message from their Lord, but they listen to it as in jest, Their hearts toying as with trifles. The wrong-doers conceal their private counsels, (saying), "Is this (one) more than a man like yourselves? Will ye go to witchcraft with your eyes open?" Say: "My Lord knoweth (every) word (spoken) in the heavens and on earth: He is the One that heareth and knoweth (all things)."
"Nay," they say, "(these are) medleys of dream! - Nay, He forged it! - Nay, He is (but) a poet! Let him then bring us a Sign like the ones that were sent to (Prophets) of old!" (As to those) before them, not one of the populations which We destroyed believed: will these believe?(21:2-6)

How many were the populations We utterly destroyed because of their iniquities, setting up in their
places other peoples? (21:11)

We helped him against people who rejected Our Signs: truly they were a people given to Evil: so We
drowned them (in the Flood) all together. (21:77)

It was no more than a single mighty Blast, and behold! they were (like ashes) quenched and silent. Ah! Alas for (My) Servants! There comes not an apostle to them but they mock him!(36:30)*

If Mr Jewels have a problem interpreting their meaning, I believe our muslim sunni brothers can very well understand why. It is their nature to argue with us on the meaning on Quran and rejecting the role of hadith in its interpretation. What else can be expected of someone who follows a person whose very words declare that he takes only such hadith that support his cause and the rest he throws away like trash. I rest my case.

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All the above verses completely support my point.All of them clearly state that the prophet is rejected by all the people, save a small party, ( as has been the case with mirza ghulam ahmed of qadian ) and then people are chastised for doing that ( as is the case in india and especially pakistan ). when literally all the above verses say that people REJECT the prophet, ( this being the reason for their chastisement ) how can you claim that everybody accepts him?

This case, about mirza ghulam ahmad, peace be upon him, is in exact accordance with the above verses, and none of them proves your point that prophets are accepted by all the people.

Your molvis claimed that killing mirza ghulam ahmad, peace be upon him, is a deed of great reward, yet none was able to harm him, because allah saved him.
maulvis files a mirder case against him, and apparently the judge was against his religious beliefs, yet allah saved him.
maulvis tried their best to restrict the small group of men from growing, yet starting from 40, the group has increased to a community of 30 million people all around the world. is this the fate of false prophets?

Maulvis claim that mirza ghulam ahmed could not be crushed because the british supported him. but are the british stronger than allah? if allah was supporting the molvis, why did they not suceed??

Then in 1952 and 53, when there was mass killing of the ahmedis, and your molvis said that we will kill off all the ahmedis from face of the world, who saved the ahmedis? surely it was allah! you people tried as much as you can, with full support of the government, yet you lost!
are you saying this small community is stronger than allah that they succeeded? nay! allah is the strongest, and it is him who has saved us!

Prophet mohammad, peace and blessings of allah be upon him, came to the world 1500 years ago, and still only 1/5 of the world has been a muslims! the number of chritians in the world is more than the number of muslims!

but does this mean he was a false prophet?
the method you are applying will get yourself into trouble!

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Dear Jewels
There is no need to get all emotional about the verses. All I am saying is that if your Mirza was true then according to the Quran the people who rejected him should face Allah's punishment. You claim that the problems in Pakistan are due to rejecting Mirza but the problems of muslims began long before Mirza was even born. Muslims have been suffering gradual decline throughout the centuries due to forsaking the teachings of Quran. Muslims were not exactly on the top of the world when your Mirza appeared on the scene. They were facing hindus and british as enemies. If your Mirza came as Mahdi, then he should have helped the muslims overcome their enemies. I would like to know what did he do to remedy the problem of the muslims of India at that time?. I don't have much time right now therefore I must go but I am interested in hearing your side.

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Dear brother,

"** O people! listen, as it is the prophecy of that god, who created the heavens and the earth. He will spread this community of his, to all countries, and will bless them with eminence over all, relating reasoning and logic.
Remember, No one will descend from the heaven. Of all such deniers of ours, who are alive, none will see jesus descending from the heaven, and their sons, who will remain, will die too, yet will not see jesus descending from heaven, and then the sons of the sons will die, and they will not see son of mary descending from the sky either.
Then allah will cause them to ponder in their hearts, that the age of eminence of the eminence of the cross has passed, and the world has changed its colour, yet son of mary has not descended from heaven.
Then all intellectuals, for once, will get sick of this belief, and the third century will not complete from today, that those awaiting jesus, whatever christians, and whatever muslims, all will be disappointed and will let go this false beleif. Then one religion will be, and one leader.
I have come just to sow the seed. So i sow the seed. Now it will develop and nourish, and there is no one, who can stop it.**

  • Mirza ghulam ahmed of qadian, peace be upon him.