The Khilafah is the only hope for the muslims...

Aafreen · April 14, 2003, 1:28pm

ws, aafreen is very much a feminine name..im a sister not a brother. You really wont like me now will you...

i have given several evidences above (pls read them, why dont you question the knowledgeable scholars that have given these opinions, they cover everything you have mentioned) I have also received fatawa supporting lobbying of MP's among other types of political participation from resources such as Islamonline.net. Perhaps you should ask them for advice.

When thousands of Muslims are involved in the Political system in Britain and Europe even in India (everywhere where they are a minority and need to be heard) why do you wish to silence them?? Why do you consider yourself to have a monopoly on the truth? Surely Allah tala has that.

As i said before i do not wish to debate with you, i have spent ten years doing that, it is all HT like to do, you wish to engage us in debate and prevent any action. Indeed if you really want to debate and listen to others (as you are the UK) you should attend events by MPAC, MAB, ISB etc

I include below an example of effective lobbying of an MP in the UK.....

Gapes feels the heat

The Muslim constituents of Ilford South have called for the resignation of Mike Gapes, vice-chairman of ‘Labour Friends of Israel’ and MP for Ilford South, following his vote in favour of the Iraqi invasion.

The Jewish Chronicle reported:

“…demonstrators had disrupted his [Mike Gapes’] constituency surgery to hand him an 800 signature petition, urging him to resign”. Gapes complained “There have been demos against me all over the place, particularly outside Ilford town hall”.

The Chronicle goes on to say “In a letter to the Ilford Recorder, Ghazanfer Ali, chairman of the Ilford Islamic Centre; Mohammad Siddique, chairman of Barking’s Al Medina Mosque and Inayat Bunglawala, secretary of the Ilford branch of the Islamic Society of Great Britain called on him to ‘resign now rather than defy the wishes of his constituents on a matter of such importance’.”

It seems the people of Ilford are trying to tell Mr Gapes something. As a pro-Israeli zionist sympathiser, Gapes was already an enemy of the Ummah, in voting with Blair in favour of the Iraqi invasion he went too far. By deliberately flouting the wishes of the large Muslim community within his constituency Gapes has forfeited his authority as a representative of that community, in Parliament.

The huge level of vocal and organised opposition to Gapes shows what the Ummah can do once roused, It is a credit to the Muslim community in Ilford. But the fight is not over yet, pressure needs to be maintained. It must be made clear to Gapes and those like him that the Muslim electorate will not be dismissed or ignored. The days of passive acceptance are over, British Muslims are beginning to find a voice and a strength and inshallah we will use it.

What you can do especially if you live in Mike Gapes’ constituency:

Contact Mike Gapes directly and voice your anger at his pro-war stance:

Email: [email protected]

Telephone: 020 7219 6485

Contact the Ilford Recorder newspaper (for which Gapes writes a column) voice your disapproval of Gapes’ being given a platform by a local community newspaper, which should represent the concerns of the local population.

Telephone: 020 847 1421

Email: [email protected]

Or email the editor Colin Grainger: [email protected]

MPAC – TAPPING INTO THE FORCE OF ISLAM

www.mpacuk.org

Hum_Hain · April 14, 2003, 5:13pm

well; i think this is where we go wrong! I am sure the above ppl giving their thoughts know more than me!

But I think if I come to know of any organistaion through Mr. Fraudia or Afreen, I would get many others telling me that there is such & such thing wrong with it; they say this, they do that! The best thing for me to do would be to support the organisation where it is right and don't where it is wrong! Now who decides what's right & what's wrong is another discussion!

Same is the case in this thread! If we know Hizb Ul Tehrir is right on the stance of establishing one Khilafah; we should all support the stance in any way we can rather than opposing it for what we think are HT's misdeeds!

Mr. Fraudia mentioned earlier; the organisations should unite which at the moment is not the case! We should all be working for the same goal supporting each other along the way!

AvgAmericanGirl · April 14, 2003, 8:51pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Khilafah is the only hope for the muslims...

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Khilafah1422: *

Assalamo alaikum, my brother

Another example, the muslims have been effected by ideas that do not emanate from Islam and as a result of being effected by them ,thier behaviour has changed (clubbing, having relationships outside of marriage, leaving islamic obligations etc..)salaam
[/QUOTE]

I disagree.

I think the west has been influenced by Islamic ideals. By many ideas.

If ones behavior has changed, its the fault of that individual giving into human base desires.

Its not the fault of religion. Religion has guided us the correct way to behave. All of our religions have.

It's the failure of humans (or human nature) to overcome the temptation to sin. Not just sexually.

It's hard not to give into greed, jealousy or power. Its hard not to sin when given the opportunity for wealth and fame, it's human selfishness.

And human beings are selfish by nature.

It's mankinds failure. Not Islam.

Stu · April 14, 2003, 11:56pm

*{Edited}

If you have nothing useful to contribute on a topic, just stay out. Thanks*

rvikz · April 15, 2003, 12:25am

all parts of the world become secular only mid-east and south asia
still not secularised thats why nothing innovative ideas coming from these regions.

Khilafah1422 · April 15, 2003, 12:33am

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Aafreen: *
ws, aafreen is very much a feminine name..im a sister not a brother. You really wont like me now will you...

i have given several evidences above (pls read them, why dont you question the knowledgeable scholars that have given these opinions, they cover everything you have mentioned) I have also received fatawa supporting lobbying of MP's among other types of political participation from resources such as Islamonline.net. Perhaps you should ask them for advice.

When thousands of Muslims are involved in the Political system in Britain and Europe even in India (everywhere where they are a minority and need to be heard) why do you wish to silence them?? Why do you consider yourself to have a monopoly on the truth? Surely Allah tala has that.

As i said before i do not wish to debate with you, i have spent ten years doing that, it is all HT like to do, you wish to engage us in debate and prevent any action. Indeed if you really want to debate and listen to others (as you are the UK) you should attend events by MPAC, MAB, ISB etc

I include below an example of effective lobbying of an MP in the UK.....

Gapes feels the heat

The Muslim constituents of Ilford South have called for the resignation of Mike Gapes, vice-chairman of ‘Labour Friends of Israel’ and MP for Ilford South, following his vote in favour of the Iraqi invasion.

The Jewish Chronicle reported:

“…demonstrators had disrupted his [Mike Gapes’] constituency surgery to hand him an 800 signature petition, urging him to resign”. Gapes complained “There have been demos against me all over the place, particularly outside Ilford town hall”.

The Chronicle goes on to say “In a letter to the Ilford Recorder, Ghazanfer Ali, chairman of the Ilford Islamic Centre; Mohammad Siddique, chairman of Barking’s Al Medina Mosque and Inayat Bunglawala, secretary of the Ilford branch of the Islamic Society of Great Britain called on him to ‘resign now rather than defy the wishes of his constituents on a matter of such importance’.”

It seems the people of Ilford are trying to tell Mr Gapes something. As a pro-Israeli zionist sympathiser, Gapes was already an enemy of the Ummah, in voting with Blair in favour of the Iraqi invasion he went too far. By deliberately flouting the wishes of the large Muslim community within his constituency Gapes has forfeited his authority as a representative of that community, in Parliament.

The huge level of vocal and organised opposition to Gapes shows what the Ummah can do once roused, It is a credit to the Muslim community in Ilford. But the fight is not over yet, pressure needs to be maintained. It must be made clear to Gapes and those like him that the Muslim electorate will not be dismissed or ignored. The days of passive acceptance are over, British Muslims are beginning to find a voice and a strength and inshallah we will use it.

What you can do especially if you live in Mike Gapes’ constituency:

Contact Mike Gapes directly and voice your anger at his pro-war stance:

Email: [email protected]

Telephone: 020 7219 6485

Contact the Ilford Recorder newspaper (for which Gapes writes a column) voice your disapproval of Gapes’ being given a platform by a local community newspaper, which should represent the concerns of the local population.

Telephone: 020 847 1421

Email: [email protected]

Or email the editor Colin Grainger: [email protected]

MPAC – TAPPING INTO THE FORCE OF ISLAM

www.mpacuk.org
[/QUOTE]

Assalamo alaikum

When i finished typing the post i started thinking that aafreen was a female name and was very embarassed. My apologies to you sister and i hope you were not offended. Nevertheless, i admire any muslim who has sentiments for Islam and that includes yourself.

Sister, pls either cut and paste the relevant article that shows how muslims can participate in the western political system OR insert the relevant hyperlinks on your next post.

We are not having a debate but an Islamic discussion for the sake of getting closer to Allah (swt). So let me ask you 2 questions (if you dont mind):

1) According to your opinion is democracy (making laws) allowed

and

2) If there is a definite ayah of the Quran that prohibits the muslims from allowing the kufaar to have authority over them, can we then look for other evidences?

Your answers would be much appreciated.

JazakAllah khair

Your brother, Ali

Lajawab · April 15, 2003, 5:15am

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by aravamudhan: *
There wouldn't have been and will not be any so called attack on the Ummah if Muslims can proactively control fundamnentalism and violence within their own lands and communities. I have read numerous times that as a religion it stands for peace. So be it.

A number of terrorism related attacks in non-Muslim domianted countries in recent past have originated from Muslim countries. If the governments and establishments in these countries had taken action and controlled these terrorists, there wouldn't have been an attack on Afganistan or Iraq or Pakistan or Malaysia or Iran or whatever example you want to suggest.

What else are we to do? Fundamentalists and terrorists train within Ummah lands and the Ummah rulers wouldn't do anything about them - do we have to just sit and watch and let more planes to be smashed against buildings?
[/QUOTE]

Islamic fundamentalism? There is no such thing...And anyways, forget about the west, let's just talk about America...If we put the entire history if Islamic 'fundamentalism' in one basket and the deaths and barbarism caused by the USA alone in one, you can see what is the greatest threat to world peace...America does not want peace, it wants subjugation and submission, like all the other western ideologies from Normans and English and French and Portuguese to the second and third Reich to modern day United States...No doubt US will meet the same end as these other empires, but US is now against a foe which has withstood the trials of time like no other civilization...America will perish for sure...As for the Khilafah, we shall have it...Sooner or later...

system · April 15, 2003, 1:05pm

Actually Lajawab, Islam is a mere pup in the history of civilizations. Only 1500 yrs. Compare that with the Greek, egyptian, Indian, chinese...couldn't it be that the it is Islam that might not stand the test of time?

Aafreen · April 15, 2003, 1:11pm

aa, all your questions will be answered by the fatawa and religious advice i posted, I have inserted relevant hyperlinks....
they are all relevant to questions you are asking. Why dont you do some homework?? Why should i spend time editing, and cutting and pasting when you should be reading it all...anyway i actually have work to do like lobbying my MP, monitoring the media, attending MPAC event this weekend etc.
ws aaf

Hum_Hain · April 15, 2003, 9:19pm

sisters are not always that rude!

Khilafah1422 · April 15, 2003, 11:59pm

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by laeeqkhan: *
True! but first we need to educate the people of what is right and wrong and what a true Mulsim is! Everytime there are elections it is our own people in the Muslim world who support rulers who are not good.

First awareness and educating of masses by media etc. Then a real change will be possible.

Firstly unity inside the Muslim countries is required. It is only after that, that we can go towards the unity of the Muslim world.

It is surely Islam that unites us as different people. Are we sincere in being true Muslims?
[/QUOTE]

Assalamo alaikum brother

You made some very interesting points regarding the education of the masses.

In alot of the muslim countries, the rulers are not elected but rather they are either kings and have inherited the leadership or are in thier seat via rigged elections eg Musharraf.

What we must keep in mind is that any sort of independent media that cultures the masses with the true picture of Islam and how the muslims need a system that implements islam will be met with resistance by the government. All the rulers in the muslim world work hand in hand with the west to halt any Islamic change occuring and that means that if any organisation arises which seeks to motivate the muslims to change the current system will be opposed by the government. As an example, there are groups who work to mobilise the muslims to implement the shariah, the governments in the middle east and Pakistan throw these people into the torture chambers and give them long sentences.

It can be seen that the Pakistani government is aiding the FBI in arresting muslims from various political parties in implementing these policies formulated by the west. So the rulers in the muslim world are working against the dawah of Islam.

Therefore the muslims need to be motivated to overthrow thier existing governemts and then use the media which will be used to propogate Islam and educate the masses. The education curriculam can then be reevaluated and the corrupt subjects can be removed and the muslims can then be utilised to progress in the sciences, technology and most importantly Islam and its detailed systems of life.

Wa salaam

Khilafah1422 · April 16, 2003, 12:07am

Re: Re: The Khilafah is the only hope for the muslims...

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Changez_like: *

This can't be done without great mass murdering. Do you want that?
[/QUOTE]

Assalamo alaikum brother

I certainly do not unnecessarily want muslims to suffer but lets remind ourselves of the statement made by the Prophet when he was asked to stop the call of Islam.

The Prophet (saw) said to his uncle, when the kufaar were asking the Prophet to compromise, he said "O uncle, if they were to put the sun in my right hand and the moon in my left on condition that i abandon this call, i will not stop untill Allah makes this deen prevail or I die in the attemp"

So the Prophet was willing to shed his own blood and even die in making this deen prevail and we also know that abu bakr (ra) fought those people who refused to obey one rule of Islam which was the payment of zakaat.

So the unification of the muslims is not going to be an easy job but its an obligation ordained by Allah.

Wa salaam

Khilafah1422 · April 16, 2003, 12:09am

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by baba-jee: *
the khilafat is not such a simple subject to discuss as the history of islam shows after the first 2 khilafa rashideen. Under the Khilafat of Hafrat Uthman Ghanni, Uthman ibn Affan and Hazrat Ali ibn Abu taalib, the khilafat has been shown to be a subject which is not easily understood.
[/QUOTE]

So what is the misunderstanding according to your opinion?

Khilafah1422 · April 16, 2003, 12:18am

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Matsui: *
Actually Lajawab, Islam is a mere pup in the history of civilizations. Only 1500 yrs. Compare that with the Greek, egyptian, Indian, chinese...couldn't it be that the it is Islam that might not stand the test of time?
[/QUOTE]

Just because a civilisation did not cover a huge space of time does not indicate its unsuitability. Islam functioned as a way of life and as a political system for a period of 1300 years and achieved much progress in the fields of science, mathematics, medicine etc...

Its decline was not due to the unsuitability of its system but because people started to become confused about islam due to the influence of foreign philosophies ie greek, persian and later western.

In fact the western civilation (capitalism) has not been around for a very long time and its foundations are starting to crack due to the corrupt culture that emanates from secularism. High crime rates and stagerring sexual offences are the fruits of this so called great civilasation.

It looks like the track record of capitalism is not a very impressive one!

Lajawab · April 16, 2003, 3:02am

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Matsui: *
Actually Lajawab, Islam is a mere pup in the history of civilizations. Only 1500 yrs. Compare that with the Greek, egyptian, Indian, chinese...couldn't it be that the it is Islam that might not stand the test of time?
[/QUOTE]

This 'pup' as you call it sure outgrew the older kids on the block, didn't it...And anyway, your opinion has little value considering you don't even know how to properly address someone's faith...

system · April 16, 2003, 3:14pm

compare islam to other monotheistic faiths...that is fine. There are contexual similarities.

There is no comparison to other religions in the world. Buddhism, Hinduism etc..been there and done that.

system · April 16, 2003, 4:27pm

Dear MAtsui, you gotta read the Islamic History! The glorious civilization that ultimately lead to the renaissance in West!

system · April 16, 2003, 4:56pm

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Khilafah1422: *

Assalamo alaikum brother

You made some very interesting points regarding the education of the masses.

[/QUOTE]

Dear brother in Islam,

Assalam Alaikum!

You have mentioned a great point. I would comment further on this. The question is that why did the movements fail. Why did the people get jailed. The reason is that this way did not prove successful. There simply was no widespread support. Whenever the masses are united and the people aware, even the governments cannot stand in front of them.

An example, on the Iraq issue. People were united against the American agression. So protests widespread. Even the pro American governement had to say that it will be hard for us to support U.S in the Security Council.

So there is a Hadith of the Prophet (SAW), i don't know the exact words but its: the rulers are a reflection of the people. (May Allah forgive me if its incorrect).

So what we need is that we have to educate the people. It does not necessarily have to be from schools. We as Muslims do not realize the potential of mosques. What is the purpose of mosques - just prayers? I think that it was Masjid-e-Nabawi that was the centre of all activities.

If we make sure that we pray in the mosques five times a day, than we can go ahead. When we meet in the mosque we share ideas, maybe discuss issue and create an understanding. We also help each other. We educate and share knowledge. So a cohesive atmosphere emerges. People start learning true Islam, because there is a vent to express your feeling and improve yourself. TAzkia is achieved.

People have to be engaged in activities through the mosque. If this simple thing is done everywhere than we see the masses who come to mosque being educated. Than the time will come when people as a group, in large numbers will be in a position to change things. Actually who are the people who work in offices, make policies, teach in schools, make laws, implement laws? They are us, from us, Muslims!

I do not believe in going for an armed struggle at this stage. Why do we in the Muslim countries even have to do an armed struggle against our own people. Why can't it be achieved otherwise. Yes our leaders are bad, but are masses ready to accept what Islamic is to come. Look at Afghanistan. The Taliban were too strict and there is no compulsion in religion. They were right in many ways but their implementation was wrong. The people were not prepared for this.

Can the unrest and killing be justified? Even the people who really want to do something, cannot because they are alone. A concerted effort is required. We firstly start from ourselves, then our family, then friends and then our locality, and so on. If the base would be weak, no movement would be successful in bringing change. Let us first produce the 313 men (who fought on Youm-ul Furqan), then think of something ahead.

As far as the power of media is concerned, it can be used without hinderence. Trust me, if somebody comes up and opens a channel for the ducation of Muslims in the ISlamic way, he can do it. Even the country called United States, has so much freedom that you can go ahead and open this channel there. Nobody will stop you.
Wa salam

Khilafah1422 · April 17, 2003, 12:16pm

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by laeeqkhan: *