The Khilafah is the only hope for the muslims...

Khilafah1422 · April 11, 2003, 12:41am

With the impending crusade upon this noble ummah, the muslims have yet again faced another shock which puts her into thinking mode with regards to thier problems and how to solve them. All other solutions have failed to solve this ummahs problems. The UN is clearly seen as a western tool and the ummah sees her rulers as western backed puppets. The current systems in her lands have subjugated her to the west making her lands a big market for the multinational corporations.

The solutions currently being provided number many but only one agrees with her deen and earns the pleasure of Allah(swt).

These solutions being:

To participate in the western countries and influence the MP’s in order to change the foreign policy
To send money
To make dua
To perfect our iman and that this will effect the situation in Iraq
To reestablish the Khilafah and unify the muslim lands

I put this up for discussion for you to judge and bring evidences to back your claim

Assalamo alaikum

Ali

Mr_Fraudia · April 11, 2003, 5:13am

Re: The Khilafah is the only hope for the muslims...

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Khilafah1422: *
The solutions currently being provided number many but only one agrees with her deen and earns the pleasure of Allah(swt).

These solutions being:

1) To participate in the western countries and influence the MP's in order to change the foreign policy

2) To send money

3) To make dua

4) To perfect our iman and that this will effect the situation in Iraq

5) To reestablish the Khilafah and unify the muslim lands

I put this up for discussion for you to judge and bring evidences to back your claim

Assalamo alaikum

Ali
[/QUOTE]

all of them. Each helps in one way or the other.

al_nasar · April 11, 2003, 2:17pm

Sending money will relieve the pain in the short time, but it wont kick out the invaders who are causing the pain.

If we really want the suffering of muslims to stop, we have to remove those who cuase the sufferings in the 1st place (eg the western backed puppet muslim rulers and in case of Iraq the USA/UK troops)

system · April 11, 2003, 2:51pm

True! but first we need to educate the people of what is right and wrong and what a true Mulsim is! Everytime there are elections it is our own people in the Muslim world who support rulers who are not good.

First awareness and educating of masses by media etc. Then a real change will be possible.

Firstly unity inside the Muslim countries is required. It is only after that, that we can go towards the unity of the Muslim world.

It is surely Islam that unites us as different people. Are we sincere in being true Muslims?

Khilafah1422 · April 11, 2003, 3:19pm

Re: Re: The Khilafah is the only hope for the muslims...

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *

all of them. Each helps in one way or the other.
[/QUOTE]

Assalamo alaikum

Due to the various solutions being posed by various organisations, the muslims need to understand the nature of these solutions and whether they emanate from Islam or secularism.

If they emanate from Islam then they should be accepted and if they emanate from secularism or any other source other than Islam then they should be rejected as accepting them would lead one to disobey Allah(swt).

Islam has the capacity to solve all problems faced by human beings regardless of time and place. allah (swt) says in the Quran, "And we have revealed a book in which there is an explanation for everything"
[nahl:89].

Hence, if Islam has provided solutions for the problems we face, then surely we should refer back to it.

I disagree with mr Fraudia that all these solutions are fine and all help. Please give evidenses from the Quran and sunnah to back your claim.

JazakAllah khair

Changez_like · April 11, 2003, 3:36pm

Re: The Khilafah is the only hope for the muslims...

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Khilafah1422: *
....
5) To reestablish the Khilafah and unify the muslim lands
...
[/QUOTE]

This can't be done without great mass murdering. Do you want that?

Mr_Fraudia · April 11, 2003, 3:36pm

Re: Re: Re: The Khilafah is the only hope for the muslims...

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Khilafah1422: *
I disagree with mr Fraudia that all these solutions are fine and all help. Please give evidenses from the Quran and sunnah to back your claim.

JazakAllah khair
[/QUOTE]

Of course you disagree, you are HT member. :D

lemme post your own statement..

*"The solutions currently being provided number many but only one agrees with her deen and earns the pleasure of Allah(swt)." *

and the various options u had..

1) To participate in the western countries and influence the MP's in order to change the foreign policy.

yeah who cares what they say, I mean we dont need to do jack, as soon as khilafah is established we will make a real tall wall around or borders and not deal with anyone outside, not for trade not for education, not for anything, why even bother with these people.

I mean yes we i.e. HT did ask people to write to MPs and all, but we ourselves did not..we stand by our principles that we dont need to do anything to influence any western country's policy..I mean yeah we have these conferences (in western countries) and we yipyap about this and that, u know down with this down with that type of stuff, but we dont really care.

I dont even know why we are living here in the west..okay HT..left right left right...lets pack up and go...chop chop...hurry up.

*2) To send money *

yeah, what would money do, we dont need to set up schools, provide better health care and social service facilties. Money does nothing, as a matter of fact lest also scrape zakat, useless command by Allah, only he knows wy he told us we need to pay zakat. Money solves nothing, the day the khilafah magically appearts, everyone will become literate just by breathing the air in khliafah, all of a sudden we will be self sufficient, industrial power, we dont need to invest in people or projects to make that happen maaaan. it will happen right away.

*3) To make dua - *

yep yep. lets not make duaa, because Allah is helpless, if we dont distribute flyers at the local masjid, and wait for some "ansaar" to come around and offer us a launchigngpad for khilafah nothing will happen. I meanyes our original ansars to be i.e. taleban were booted out but more ansaar will come around..eh? why even ask Allah, he has never told us to pray to him for what we want..praying is useless..we dont need Allah's help or will, we can do it on our own..right??

4) To perfect our iman and that this will effect the situation in Iraq

Imaaan shimaaan, who cares about Imaaan, we dont care about imaaan, as long as we have one big piece of land run by us (yeah not be the ppl, but we will choose among ourselves who is fit to lead since ppl cant really choose wisely) I mean the original caliphate was corrupted and diseased due to lack of imaan by people anyways, but we are better, we can make it work even if people dont have an ounce of imaaan...we kewl like dat.

5) To reestablish the Khilafah and unify the muslim lands.

yep..everytime we distribute a flyer the odds of the khilafah being created magicaly the next day increase. btw we wont do anything in teh countries we actually want the governments to reform..i.e. middle east, but we will pass flyers to expats overseas. the plan has been working liek clockwork for 50 years..we rock baby!!!

Khilafah1422 · April 12, 2003, 7:05pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: The Khilafah is the only hope for the muslims...

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *

Of course you disagree, you are HT member. :D

lemme post your own statement..

*"The solutions currently being provided number many but only one agrees with her deen and earns the pleasure of Allah(swt)." *

and the various options u had..

1) To participate in the western countries and influence the MP's in order to change the foreign policy.

yeah who cares what they say, I mean we dont need to do jack, as soon as khilafah is established we will make a real tall wall around or borders and not deal with anyone outside, not for trade not for education, not for anything, why even bother with these people.

I mean yes we i.e. HT did ask people to write to MPs and all, but we ourselves did not..we stand by our principles that we dont need to do anything to influence any western country's policy..I mean yeah we have these conferences (in western countries) and we yipyap about this and that, u know down with this down with that type of stuff, but we dont really care.

I dont even know why we are living here in the west..okay HT..left right left right...lets pack up and go...chop chop...hurry up.

*2) To send money *

yeah, what would money do, we dont need to set up schools, provide better health care and social service facilties. Money does nothing, as a matter of fact lest also scrape zakat, useless command by Allah, only he knows wy he told us we need to pay zakat. Money solves nothing, the day the khilafah magically appearts, everyone will become literate just by breathing the air in khliafah, all of a sudden we will be self sufficient, industrial power, we dont need to invest in people or projects to make that happen maaaan. it will happen right away.

*3) To make dua - *

yep yep. lets not make duaa, because Allah is helpless, if we dont distribute flyers at the local masjid, and wait for some "ansaar" to come around and offer us a launchigngpad for khilafah nothing will happen. I meanyes our original ansars to be i.e. taleban were booted out but more ansaar will come around..eh? why even ask Allah, he has never told us to pray to him for what we want..praying is useless..we dont need Allah's help or will, we can do it on our own..right??

4) To perfect our iman and that this will effect the situation in Iraq

Imaaan shimaaan, who cares about Imaaan, we dont care about imaaan, as long as we have one big piece of land run by us (yeah not be the ppl, but we will choose among ourselves who is fit to lead since ppl cant really choose wisely) I mean the original caliphate was corrupted and diseased due to lack of imaan by people anyways, but we are better, we can make it work even if people dont have an ounce of imaaan...we kewl like dat.

5) To reestablish the Khilafah and unify the muslim lands.

yep..everytime we distribute a flyer the odds of the khilafah being created magicaly the next day increase. btw we wont do anything in teh countries we actually want the governments to reform..i.e. middle east, but we will pass flyers to expats overseas. the plan has been working liek clockwork for 50 years..we rock baby!!!
[/QUOTE]

Assalamo alaikum, my brother

Brother, at the end of the day we are here to worship Allah (swt) in every action that we do and any action which is a disobedience to Him, we abstain from it.

From my understanding, i think you misunderstood the objective of my question... let me expand:

The point that I am trying to raise is that how directly will the muslims change their situation and what is the way forward prescribed by Islam.

What I did'nt intend to show was that all obligations and recommended acts should be abolished or neglected ie zakat, dua, perfection of Iman etc...

My beloved brother, yes the muslims do not have just a single problem, there exists various problems ie poor education, economic problems, occupation of muslim lands, muslims not practicing the basics etc... So you and me are unified upon our perception of the current problems faced by the muslims.

What we differ upon is the approach by which these problems are solved.

When we try to understand the nature of the problems, we can clearly see that some of them are problems that arise from a root problem and there is also a major root problem, where if this was solved, the other problems would also be solved as they result from this root cause.

As an example, the current problem of Iraq. The attack upon the muslims of Iraq was aided by the current regimes in the muslim countries ie kuwait and saudi arabia (even though they denied any assistance). One can clearly see that the branch of the problem is the attack on Iraq and the root problem is the existence of corrupt regimes which collaborated with the west. Had the rulers in these countries rejected to aid the west and were unified on this, then it would be very difficult for the u.s and britain to conduct this war.

Another example, the muslims have been effected by ideas that do not emanate from Islam and as a result of being effected by them ,thier behaviour has changed (clubbing, having relationships outside of marriage, leaving islamic obligations etc..)

When we try to understand the cause behind this problem, we can see that the western culture was exported into muslim countries and is broadcasted via many styles ie cable, magazines, universities etc.. But who facilitated this? Was it me and you? Who allowed the changing of the education curriculum of the muslim countries? Do you and I have a say in this?

The obvious answer to this is NO. The curriculum is designed by the government or is taken from the west and introduced domestically. So now, when our brothers and sisters go to school or universities in the muslim countries, they are educated by western culture. Here, i dont mean maths , english and science but the ideas of freedom. Islamic education is taught in a secular manner and not as a complete way of life.

So, again if we want to comprehensively change the status qou with regards to the education system, then that which regulates the education system needs to change ie the systems in our countries.

Indeed, we can engage in reforming the education system but the corrupt regimes are there to protect the culture of the west. Why is it that many muslims want to adhere to Islam but regardless of that, in some schools in Pakistan, male and female students were given chat up lines to practice upon each other? Why are all the madrasas being shut in Pakistan but the christian missionary schools are given a free hand?

The rulers in the muslim countries are working against the muslims who want an islamic change.

So, yes we need to perfect our iman, give zakaat, help build schools, make dua to Allah (swt) but this is not going to remove the corrupt leaders in our lands but definately it will bring us closer to Allah (swt)

InshAllah i hope i have not offended you, if i have, then please forgive your brother.

I would like to hear your response with regards to the above.

JazakAllah khair

salaam

baba-jee · April 12, 2003, 7:42pm

the khilafat is not such a simple subject to discuss as the history of islam shows after the first 2 khilafa rashideen. Under the Khilafat of Hafrat Uthman Ghanni, Uthman ibn Affan and Hazrat Ali ibn Abu taalib, the khilafat has been shown to be a subject which is not easily understood.

aravamudhan · April 12, 2003, 7:44pm

There wouldn't have been and will not be any so called attack on the Ummah if Muslims can proactively control fundamnentalism and violence within their own lands and communities. I have read numerous times that as a religion it stands for peace. So be it.

A number of terrorism related attacks in non-Muslim domianted countries in recent past have originated from Muslim countries. If the governments and establishments in these countries had taken action and controlled these terrorists, there wouldn't have been an attack on Afganistan or Iraq or Pakistan or Malaysia or Iran or whatever example you want to suggest.

What else are we to do? Fundamentalists and terrorists train within Ummah lands and the Ummah rulers wouldn't do anything about them - do we have to just sit and watch and let more planes to be smashed against buildings?

Mr_Fraudia · April 12, 2003, 7:51pm

Thank you for your response, you are correct i misunderstood you.

There are a few aspects in your post I want to address. In principle I am all for khilafah and muslim unity.

I think that long term goal and short term challenges both need attention on an equal footing. The result of teh short term actions should have a positive impact on the long term goals.

Khilafah will not come by itself, there has to be a will of people to be united, for that there has to be an awareness of the advantages of unity, there can be small steps as econimoc union etc. Better understanding between countries, sects and what nots. This is directly related to awareness and education.

There are people who are engaging in honor killings because they think that their tribalitic actions are somehow supported by religious edicts. There are people going around killing each other all in the name of religion, look at sipah e sahaba and sipah e muhammad etc for example in Pakistan.

We can not focus on long term without realizing what needs to be done short term, yet we can not ignore long term and focus only on short term.

what we also need to do is weed out these supposed religious leaders in our countries who are only using it as a pawn for their own power. The examples I will give you are Pakistani MMA, the leaders' sons are in US while they were rousing poor people to go wage some jihad. Jamat e islami's student wing, the jamiat has been a source of terror on Pakistani campuses for decades. They have killed others..just because they had a difference in ideology.

and then you have the issue of madrissas, they are only being regulated now, and those who do not meet the standards face a lock. I think its a good step, we have to make sure that people dont use these institutions for their own goals and poison young minds. sadly that has happened, a handful of madrissas ahve given a bad name to many others. however the many others that may not be used for this purpose have untrained and ill prepared teachers.

The changes have to be at a grassroots level, and start with people. and its not jyst about convincing other educated people about the importance of unity, but also to the masses, they have to brought up many notches, the lowest common denominator has to be pulled up, otherwise the issues will remain.

Additionally the decay of society, can not be all attributed to the west, when the sultans had harems,and were involved in all kinds of vices there was no MTV, no "magazines" and other such things around. Everything that is bad in teh cultures is not imported, a lot of it is local as well, and has been around for ages.

so lets not just fcus on longterm at the expense of short term needs, or ignore long term direction and focus only on short term goals, we have to do both.

and that starts with cooperation between various msulim groups and organizations, because if people working for teh greater good cant cooperate, how can we expect the nations and sects to unite.

Mr_Fraudia · April 12, 2003, 7:55pm

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by aravamudhan: *
There wouldn't have been and will not be any so called attack on the Ummah if Muslims can proactively control fundamnentalism and violence within their own lands and communities.

What else are we to do? Fundamentalists and terrorists train within Ummah lands and the Ummah rulers wouldn't do anything about them - do we have to just sit and watch and let more planes to be smashed against buildings?
[/QUOTE]

No, i think we should oppose oppression and terrorizing of people everywhere whether its based on religion, ethnicity or what nots.

No one should stand around and do nothing while idiots crash planes in buildings, but no one should also stand around and do nothing when homes are bulldozed, or concentration camps are set or genocide takes place..we have to look beyond the blinders we all seem to have.

Hum_Hain · April 12, 2003, 9:38pm

much appreciated is the effort of our brother who explained the objectives of Hizb-ul-Tehrir! and the need for them to be accomplished i.e. establishment of Khilaafa! which ofcourse was done after misunderstanding of Mr. Fraudia! lol such long sarcastic reply; but again it proved as a catalyst! no offence!

I recently met someone who was a member of HT, & attended a few talk sessions at the local community centre! I agree with the brother!

and as it is witnessed in the recent days; Muslims all over the world are protesting against their governments; they want to unite as an Ummah! they feel for other muslims as an Ummah!

HT is doing a great job; one of their member’s was on ARY digital the other day; they’re making muslims around the globe more & more aware of the need for khilaafa! :k: :k: :k:

Mr_Fraudia · April 13, 2003, 4:00am

Hum Hain

I hope you will try to get your circle of Ht to cooperate with other muslim organizations, the prime goal of the groups may be different but the intent is the same i.e. to improve the conditions of muslims. Ht has had a pretty bad track record of working with other muslim groups. if we cant unite at the level of groups working for the betterment of our people, how can we ecpect unity across national boundries and sectarian lines.

Hum_Hain · April 13, 2003, 11:08am

^i am sure u would be right there!
i really don't know how the dealing of the HT with other fellow organisations is! & i don't think i'd be able to influence that either!
we have other organisations working for the betterment of muslims i.e. charity organisations etc. which ofcourse have the support of muslims!

But as far as I know, HT is the organisation whose prime goal is Khilafah! i.e. the strategy chosen to improve the conditions of the muslims! There might be other organisations, of which i don't know about, who are working for the establishment of Khilafah as well! I didn't know of HT a few weeks ago; but was made aware of it!

So this is where HT is doing a good job i.e. making ppl aware of the need for Khilafah & encouraging them!

yes; some ppl might have disagreements over the issue or HT; but we need to resolve them; there is an answer to everything; just needed is a bit of an optimistic & postive approach!

Mr_Fraudia · April 13, 2003, 9:42pm

Hum Hain

The challenge with HT is that they are not well organized, often have clashes with other groups, their history of cooperation with other groups has been really poor. There is a high turnover of membership due to lack of planning.

Educating ppl about khilafah is great, but an organization with a large member base should strive to do more to solve the current issues as well. HT in not the only way towards fostering better understanding and unity among muslims which is needed before any khilafah of any sort can be made possible, even the weak, hollow, decaying entity which imploded last century.

You have just become aware of HT, I have known HT inside and out for over a decade. I hope you can make th eorganization more results focused, less confrontational, dynamic, and planned.

Khilafah1422 · April 13, 2003, 11:43pm

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
Thank you for your response, you are correct i misunderstood you.