The Judgment

[divine-light]

though 3:30 pm Friday was a sad moment rather shocking…

but later if we think into this matter ..some deep insight ..things are not simpler as they sems to be…

9 honrable judges have to decide about the fate of 16 crore people**…you cannot imagine..how much pressure was on thier shoulders ..yesterday ..virtually they were walking over a tight rope…thier one movement of pen coud change the history of Pakistan…**

We have observed 9 honurable judges throughout in past 6 months in newspaper…

some of them which favoured General Musharraf are eally very good and brave judges …and did excellently for the human rights violation cases of Missing people…and other price increasing cases…like

*** Justice Javed Iqbal**
*** Justice Javed Buttar**
*** Justice Falek Sher**

etc etc…

Justice javed Iqbal took bold decisons on** Missing people** case…and price increasing attitudes in Islamabad…

Justice Falek Sher alongwith Justice Ramdai …ordered to destruct the 11 storey** Masood Hospital**…on Ferozpur Road Lahore ..although the NGOs were indulging the sifarish of president and Prime Minsiter of pakistan…

Justice Buttar .a very brave judge ..indeed..brother of Dr Amna Buttar..who was mishandeled b police in Islamabad in procession n favour of Chief Justice…Justice Buttar gave the most vigorous remarks against Musharraf in CJ case…

all 3 judges ..yesterday favoured the Government…

If we think for a bit…what had happened if they would have decided against the President…and why …

• do constitution of pakistan not allow him to wear uniform till 15 November,2007

• do 17 ammendment is not part of Consitution…

• do 2/3 majority not allowed Musharraf to have dual offices of presidency and Army chief…

• do 2 SC decisions not validate…dual office principle…

That why during 11 days …all judges unanimosuly said that ..what we can do now…your own Parliment ..the most supreme instituion of any state ..by 2/3 majority has passed bill in Musharraf favour ..why you lawyers and poiticians ..not go to Parliment and ammend the 17th ammendment and kick out it..or 270aa which validates ..all Musharraf acts…

Justice Javed Iqbal said the historical sentence…If Parliment is a lame duck…then Supreme Court has no any power injection to made this lame duck ..a lion !!!

what a slap..honurable judge made on the bloody…hypocrites**..halwa eaters**…diesel smugglers…traitors ..sitting in Parliment and receiving 3 lakhs per month with cars..free telephones..and free residencies…

what the hell these ..politicans did in last 5 years for the people whom they were reperesentin in the assemblies..just go musharraf go slogans ..and deals ..and hypocrisy…

all 160 millions people are dozing .. enjoying Mast Mol…and giving all pressures to only 9 men..just 9 men..what a shame…

Judges could become TARZANS yesterday..but what would be the result then…

*** Martial Law**
*** Emergency**
*** Dissolution of Assemly and extending them to 1 more year.**

In all 3 cases what will happen…again we will be back at 1999 …by de railing the process of Militarization to civilan set up…

That why on 5 September 2007..on first day..when CJ Jusice ifthikhar said when he was on first day listening this case ..he said to Akram shaikh repersenting Qazi Hussain …he said…

Akram sahab ..do you want to de-rail the whole system…which is about to to turn into total civilian one..on 15 November just after 2 months…

and this one sentence ..shows how the honurable judges of the honurabe Supreme Court of Pakistan…are thinking about the future of pakistan…and its future dangers…if they will not decide the case sensibly…

and i strongly belive that..6 judges also did the same thing yesterday..for the upcoming better of Pakistan…though it was a bit sad at the moment…but in my humble opinion..will be good…in near future ..if not rejoicing at the time being…

having said all this…

a brave and hearty salute to 3 brave judges who opposed the majority decision..and proved that they are Justiec Carnilas …followers…and once again ..one and only ..a man with unbeatable respect and repute**..Justice Rana Bhagwandas** ..in his last case of his 40 years brilliant career..again prooved .that no doubt ..he is one the most brigtest stars ..of pakistan judicial history…as he is going to retire on December 2007…

plus…salute to brave Justice Shakurullah Jan and 3r honurable judge.…all were from smaller provices ..and once again proved thier loyalty and bravery …

History will never forget these 3 brave judges …

[Iconoclast]

Re: |""

[QUOTE]
Martial Law
* Emergency
* Dissolution of Assemly and extending them to 1 more year.

[/QUOTE]

I think this had a major influence on decison.

[divine-light]

Re: |""

^^ totally agreed..remeber "IF" of Musharraf statement ..which he presented in the SC a week ago....

[Iconoclast]

Re: |""

By the way now we shud change our textbooks and instead of teaching "Do qaumi Nazriya" we should be teaching "Nazriya-e-zaroorat".

[divine-light]

Re: |""

No no ..its not nazria zaroorat ..in my humble opinion.....
justice javed iqbal time and agin said that ..the decison will not be of nazria zaroorat....

actually nazriya zaroorat came every time ..to "VALIDATE " and "LEGATAMIZE" any army ruler when he comes....

this time an army ruler is GOING out.....

and if the judges had become TARZANS yesterday...then...may be we have again 10 years MARTIAL LAW....

i am not saying that it was an ideal decison...but its better to have something..rather than nothing..thats way..i think so...:)

[divine-light]

Re: |""

Pir Shahib..law is always organic..means changes with time.....

and now time is saying that ...for the betterment of country...its necesarry ..not to make any hurdle ..in going out military ruler..thats why judges interpreted it ..in theis regard....

but see ..3 judges wen aginst....

i again say.....its just like that..a robber comes into any house ..and say to the owner that.. i will only loot money..but if you resised...the honour of women in the house also will be in danger....
so better to loot him ....money rather than honour ....

similarly....if the ruler is asking way out ..from uniform..its the responsibility of the 9 honurable judges ..to decide the fate of 16 crore people and Pakistan...sensibly.....

otherwise...you know pakistan's history...whats happened to it..in past 60 years...

[yazdi]

Re: |""

so are u saying that the judges based their decision not on law but what their verdict could potentially result in?

It's not that they have based their decision without considering law of the land...
Law provided them reasons to declare petition non maintainable on technical grounds, and judges exercised this option to make it basis of their decision strictly technically speaking...
I don't think the decision was made on nazreaizaroraat....

As far as intentions were concerned I am afraid your speculation is correct. They feared roll back of a lot of progress made to establish rule of law in the country.....

The legal problems for President by no means are over, and for the courts to tackle him without uniform will become much easier....

[Mostar95]

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Pakistan will neve be able to get rid of military and its rule.

[divine-light]

Re: |""

law is organic but does not change on the fly. judges may have different interpretations of the law in their mind as they see a particular situation and its specifics.

the responsibility of judges is to uphold the law and not to make political decisions.

and they exactly did thier job according to law....

do the constitution of Pakistan ..not says that General Musharraf can hold 2 offices until 15 november...2007....

they not did any political decision.....

the honurable judges gave the decison exactly according to the Constitution of Pakistan....

thast why they time and again said that...we have not put this uniform to President ..Parliment did that..why you people come to us..go to Parliment...make 2/3 majority and kick the uniform bill out of Parliment....

[divine-light]

Re: |""

the 9 honurable judges of SC of Pakistan almost completed thier case about 12 pm noon...and then announced it on 3;30 pm....

if 30 min. of Jumma Prayers..you can imagine ..for 3 hours..they burnt thier nerves ..and nuerons to take this difficult and un popular decison....

3 hours is not a short time...you can yourself imagine..how difficult it is when 9 people have to decide about the future of whole country and 16 crore people...

[yazdi]

Re: |""

Pakistan will neve be able to get rid of military and its rule.

Mostar I am not so pessimistic....
I think court has decided the case very sensibly, It will go a long way to rid the country from army rule...
Just let the president take off his uniform, let him become toothless...
Courts will slaughter him like a sheep....

[divine-light]

Re: |""

^^ no sir..the 3 brave judges not went aginst the constitution ....bu thse blessed souls ...uphold the "Spirit of Constitution " which says that ..in democatic system..an army ruler cannot be a president or candidate of presendial offce....

actually ..its just like the above robber example....a army ruler is sitting in the house with guns.....

by the rule of De Facto....what can you do ....better to give him a** "save Passage"** ...so that this De Facto rule will eventually change into De Juro rule...

6 honurable judges decded the case by above mentiod De juro rule ..and

3 honurable judges decide the case ...according to** Spirit of Constitution**....

thats the only difference....

but again ...its time to use De juro...to have something rather than nothing.....

[divine-light]

Re: |""

^^ certainly..they will not discss openly those dangers to pakistan..if they had decied against the President..Such all things ewere discussed in court room...where the honourable judges were sitting and deciing the whole case..for 3 hours....

they cannot say that ..since pakistan;s future was in danger ...so we have trown it out...:)

and yes..technical errors ..its also justified..when Parliment has given Musharraf this opportunity...to challenge it ..in SC is can be a technical fault of the petitoners..as Parliment did all this thing ..not SC...

[Reza_Pahlavi]

Re: |“”

@divine-light

Judges could become TARZANS yesterday..but what would be the result then…

*** Martial Law**
*** Emergency**
*** Dissolution of Assemly and extending them to 1 more year.**

How can you dissolve the assemblies and extend their term for another 1 year as well?

I know you are clutching at straws after the SC judgement, but try to make some logical sense in your arguments.

[CM]

Re: |""

The more I think about it the more ingenious this decision is. They do not decide on merit thus they did not give a legal verdict on "whether he can hold two offices". They dismissed the claims based on a technicality. Not on their merit.

This opens the door in a few ways. The Supreme Court's verdicts can not be reviewed or overruled legally. Rather once they have decided they can not be undone and they become legal norms. So if they had ruled one way or another it would have set the foundations for our future.

What they did was defer the decision making process to a better or worse time. They merely said that they were unadmissible under technical grounds. Meaning the case can be tried again and a legal verdict can be given when those technical faults are fixed.

Musharraf's rule is at an end or close to it. Barring another military take over I find their strategy to be amazingly simple and yet also the best solution for the future of Pakistan. However I still say a 5-4 verdict would have been a better solution.

The Supreme Court has not closed the door on the issue of can he run with two offices. Rather they have postponed the debate.

[divine-light]

Re: |""

Mostar I am not so pessimistic.... I think court has decided the case very sensibly, It will go a long way to rid the country from army rule... Just let the president take off his uniform, let him become toothless... Courts will slaughter him like a sheep....

good analysis.....

i dont think SC will slughter president in civilian ...set u...but certainy he has no such powers as he has at this time....

so better for SC ..to take his uniform..then ..he will no more any danger to SC or Pakistan....

[divine-light]

Re: |""

The more I think about it the more ingenious this decision is. They do not decide on merit thus they did not give a legal verdict on "whether he can hold two offices". They dismissed the claims based on a technicality. Not on their merit.

This opens the door in a few ways. The Supreme Court's verdicts can not be reviewed or overruled legally. Rather once they have decided they can not be undone and they become legal norms. So if they had ruled one way or another it would have set the foundations for our future.

What they did was defer the decision making process to a better or worse time. They merely said that they were unadmissible under technical grounds. Meaning the case can be tried again and a legal verdict can be given when those technical faults are fixed.

Musharraf's rule is at an end or close to it. Barring another military take over I find their strategy to be amazingly simple and yet also the best solution for the future of Pakistan. However I still say a 5-4 verdict would have been a better solution.

The Supreme Court has not closed the door on the issue of can he run with two offices. Rather they have postponed the debate.

yes exactly..you put all this in nice way....
they not said that..its permissible for an army officer to be president..but they posponed it ..just for the future of PAkistan..and 160 million people....

i personally salute all 9 judges who ...took a very bold..un popular but healthy decision..

[Iconoclast]

Re: |""

Call it what you may, but the decison is neither bold nor popular. Shying away from a problem does not solve it.

[Aalsi]

Re: |“”

Let’s see what te full court decision is. I am sure it would be forthcoming just like the CJ judgement.

[yazdi]

Re: |""

good analysis.....

i dont think SC will slughter president in civilian ...set u...but certainy he has no such powers as he has at this time....

so better for SC ..to take his uniform..then ..he will no more any danger to SC or Pakistan....

They will really grill Musharraf once he takes off his uniform because really it's true that he can stay president in uniform till 15th November, but for new tenure beyond that he is not eligible to offer himself as a candidate. All these questions will be eventually decided on merit and even if he gets elected his election can be declared null and void....By deciding the petition on technical grounds supreme court has kept the option to eventully review the matter on merit at a later stage.....Looking at the mood of the judiciary it is very likely.....