The issue of Fadak

Society Religion & Philosophy
81

Re: The issue of Fadak

^yes and admitting that Abu Bakr made a blunder and made the Prophets daughter angry could set the stage for taking this discussion to move ahead which it isnt doing at the moment.

Thats a rather interesting title of a book. Is the book anti Maulana Maududi?

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Re: The issue of Fadak

Pysah, All the dilemma you have been going through of who knows the right interpretation of quran, which hadith to choose and which one to rule out... This is what I am trying to point out to you..... If you look into the issue deeper... these are the concerns it raises... and if you try to answer my questions with a cool and unbiased mind inshallah it with clear things up to you.... The issue is alot more than wordly thing as you have been trying to protray in the past....

**- Does everything Prophet P.B.U.H says is according to Allah SWT will?

  • Would Allah SWT let his Prophet give such a hadith if nauzubillah Bibi Fatima Zehra SA had a tendency of getting angry with the people for wrong reasons?**

- The only person who represented lady when it came to curse on lairs in Mubahila , the lady who was raised no other then Prophet P.B.U.H. .... nauzubillah misinterprets quran and yet Abu Bakr knew it correclty? If this is your believe. May Allah SWT and his Prophet P.B.U.H reward you for correcting the ummah.

- Are you implying the lady who is chief of all the ladies and paradise and the mother of the leaders of heaven.. nazubillah mis interpret Quran and yet Abu Bakr who is just a companion knows better and can embarass her????? Wow buddy you got some nerve... Good Job !

- Would Quran ask us to love Ahleybait even though they nauzubillah can mis interpret quran and get angry for wrong reasons?

- Would Prophet ask us to follow Quran and Sunnah and yet do not give us a reliable source to get the sunnah and leave us to pick and choose? or is it Quran and Ahleybait as I quoted from Sahih Muslim earlier?

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Re: The issue of Fadak

Peace Texan_Dude

Actually I am not calling anyone wrong in this matter, but clearly you have decided to call someone faultless and the other totally blameworthy, this is the unfairness I am bringing to you with evidence and sound reasoning.

To explain I can present to you a little example.

A man goes to a masjid and hammers a nail at the doorway, cleans his shoe on it and enters the building. Another man comes along from inside the building sees the nail and removes it throwing it away ... Who has done wrong?

The answer is none of them: Because the essence of a deed is based on the intention.

If the intent of the first man is to maintain the cleanliness of the masjid and the intent of the second is to protect people from getting hurt ... both will get their reward with Allah (SWT).

Such is the matter that you dwell on, because you loathe to attribute good intentions to all of the high ranking sahabah and judge their intentions without knowledge it is you who are doing this not I. I am merely saying Fatimah-tu-Zahra (AS) was right from one angle, but the angle you want her to be from makes her seem wanting of worldly possession and Abu Bakr as-Siddiq as a cruel man - thus defaming both. My interpretations do not make her seeking a worldly thing but a gesture of love for her father and his (RA) action as a gesture of upholding the law without any self-interest, but he (RA) did, as references annotate seek the pleasure of Fatima-tu-Zahra (AS) because she was from the family of Muhammad (SAW).

By claiming that Abu Bakr as-Siddiq a man who gave away all his wealth and cleaned an old women's house during his caliphate is going to leave the daughter of Muhammad (SAW), to be angry and upset without trying to make her happy and to assume that she would leave this world holding a grudge is an accusation at both of these great people's intentions, even when we have lots of character hadith of both of them and references which go against the version which suits your particular political bias.

And that is what it comes down to ... bias, and I have no cause to be bias.

Timepass - March 2013
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Re: The issue of Fadak

There is numerous instances of deliberate victimization of the Ahl al-Bayt (as). Fadak is only one instance. Can Sunnis tell us why khums was cancelled?

Many Sunnis do not even know about it at all! Yet, it is a Qur’anic Commandment! Let me cite an instance:

Shaykh Nasiruddin al-Albani in his Al-Irwa 1242 narrates:

عن جبير ابن مطعم أنه جاء هو وعثمان بن عفانيكلمان رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم فيما قسم من الخمس بين بني هاشم وبني المطلبفقلت يا رسول الله قسمت لإخواننا بني المطلب ولم تعطنا شيئا وقرابتنا وقرابتهم منكواحدة فقال النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم إنما بنو هاشم وبنو المطلب شيء واحد قال جبيرولم يقسم لبني عبد شمس ولا لبني نوفل من ذلك الخمس كما قسم لبني هاشم وبنيالمطلبقال وكان أبو بكر يقسم الخمس نحو قسم رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم غير أنه لم يكن يعطي قربى رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ما كان النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم يعطيهم قال وكان عمر بن الخطاب يعطيهم منهوعثمان بعده*

**Jubayr ibn Mut’im narrated that he and Uthman ibn Affan went to the Messenger of Allah to complain about his method of distributing khums, only between Banu Hashim and Banu Abdul Mutalib. I (Jubayr) said: “O Messenger of Allah, why do you give from the khums to Banu Hashim and Banu Abdul Mutalib and you give us nothing while we are equal with them in being related to you?” The Messenger of Allah replied “Only the Banu Hashim and Banu AbdulMutalib are equal in relationship with me!”

Jubayr said: He never gave any share of the khums to Banu Abd Shams and Banu Nawfil as he did to Banu Hashim and Banu AbdulMutalib. Abubakr used to distribute khums in this manner too, except that he did not give the close relatives of the Messenger of Allah what the Messenger of Allah used to give to them. Umar and Uthman used to give him some of it however.**
Albani declares it sahih.

Source: ßÊÈ ÇáÍÏíË¡ ááÃáÈÇäí](كتب الحديث، للألباني)

One asks: why did Abubakr target the close relatives of the Holy Prophet (pbuh)?
Source: Al-Albani on Abubakr’s bias treatment

MATCH THE LAST WORD
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Re: The issue of Fadak

Can shia tell me why did Hazrat Fatimah رضى الله عنها got angry with her own husband Hazrat Ali رضى الله عنه ? Does it nauzubillah mean that Hazrat Ali was munafiq or kaafir?

Narrated Sahl ibn Sa'd: Allah's Apostle went to Fatima's house but did not find 'Ali there. So he asked, "Where is your cousin?" She replied, "There was something between us and he got angry with me and went out. He did not sleep (mid-day nap) in the house." Allah's Apostle asked a person to look for him. That person came and said, "O Allah's Apostle! He (Ali) is sleeping in the mosque." Allah's Apostle went there and 'Ali was lying. His upper body cover had fallen down to one side of his body and he was covered with dust. Allah's Apostle started cleaning the dust from him saying: "Get up! O Aba Turab. Get up! O Aba Turab (literally means: O father of dust).
(Saheeh Bukhari, Kitabus Salat)

So why Shia makes a big deal of dispute between Hazrat Abu Bakr RA and Hazrat Fatimah RA, but never mentions of dispute between Hazrat Ali RA and Hazrat Fatimah RA? Why the double standard?

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Re: The issue of Fadak

You have quoted a Sahih al-Bukhari tradition to prove a Shi'a belief?? That's a bit odd! Anyway, the Qur'an itself has confirmed that the relationship between Imam Ali (as) and Bibi al-Zahra (as) was PERFECT throughout. Thus, any narration anywhere that contradicts the Qur'an is false.

We read in the Holy Qur’an:

He has let free the two bodies of flowing water, meeting together:
Between them is a Barrier which they do not transgress:
Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Out of them come Pearls and Coral:Al-Qur'an, Surah 55, Ayah 19 - 22, translated by Yusufali

Imam al-Suyuti in his Tafseer Durre Manthur, Volume 6 page 143, while commenting on the verse, states:

According to Ibn Abbas the two rivers mean 'Ali and Fatima. The barrier means the Holy Prophet and the pearl and coral mean Hasan and Husayn

As for the Sahih al-Bukhari tradition that you cited, it is weak on account of one of its narrators. Modern day Sunni scholar Shaykh Hassan Saqaf in his book Majm'o Rasael al-Saqqaf, Volume 2 page 738 stated on this alleged story:

وهو حديث شاذ تكلم عليه بعض الحفاظ !! لأنه من رواية المسور بن مخرمة وكان منحرفاً عن سيدنا علي.

"It is an odd tradition and some scholars reject it!! because it is narrated by Musawar bin Makhrama who was deviated from Sayedna Ali".

Another angle from which Sunni scholars rejected the cited story is:

ووقع في صحيح مسلم من حديثه في خطبة علي لابنه أبي جهل قال المسور سمعت النبي صلى الله عليه و سلم وأنا محتلم يخطب الناس فذكر الحديث وهو مشكل المأخذ لأن المؤرخين لم يختلفوا أن مولده كان بعد الهجرة وقصة خطبة علي كانت بعد مولد المسور بنحو من ست سنين أو سبع سنين فكيف يسمى محتلما

*In Sahih Muslim recorded his (Musawar's) tradition about Ali's proposal to Abu Jahl's daughter, he said: 'I heard the prophet (s) addressing to the people while I was adult'. There is a problem in accepting the hadith because the historians never disagreed about his (Musawar's) birth which was after the migration while the story of Ali's proposal is about six or seven years after Musawar's birth, thus how come he was an adult?'. *

That should be enough to keep your lips dry!

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Re: The issue of Fadak

Of course I quoted Sahih Bukhari, because your own shia friends quoted the exact same book to prove that Fatimah RA got angry with Hazrat Abu Bakr Siddiq رضى الله عنه

So why you are making double standard for who can quote sahih bukhari and who cant?

Also you said any narration which contradicts Quraan is false. What about the narration in your book "Usool-e-Kafi" which says 12 Imams control everything in this universe and know everything even when and where they will die? This narration is clearly contradicting Quraan which says Allah Ta'ala controls everything and only He knows everything!

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Re: The issue of Fadak

You will never find a Shi'a quoting al-Kafi to show the beliefs of Sunnis. It just doesn't make ANY sense to do that. So, using Sahih al-Bukhari to prove our creed is really hilarious.

You mentioned a tradition. Could you be kind enough to cite it and similar ones?

I don't reply to unspecified traditions.

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Re: The issue of Fadak

any hadith that contradicts with Quran is false, doesn't matter if its from "Usool-e-kafo" or "Sahih Bukhari"

As a Muslim I believe ALLAH provides me food, but the fact is, at times my parents did.

Believe contradicting with a fact, does that mean my believe is wrong ? or does that mean i wasn't able to understand it properly, the case cud be; ALLAH provided me food through my parents !

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Re: The issue of Fadak

Aqeel bhai, you committed another haram act according to nasibi philosophy. Aql or reasoning/logic is haram in their madhab.

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Re: The issue of Fadak

Usool-e-Kaafi, Vol.1, P.265 says Allah has a defective quality (nauzubillah!)

Here is scanned page

Please answer this disgusting blasphemy which is written in your book.[/size]

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Re: The issue of Fadak

Verily the knowledge of the Hour is with Allah (alone). It is He Who sends down rain, and He Who knows what is in the wombs. Nor does any one know what it is that he will earn on the morrow: Nor does any one know in what land he is to die. Verily with Allah is full knowledge and He is acquainted (with all things). (Surah Luqman, Ch.31, V.34)

“The Imam knows his hour of death and his death is in his control.” (Usool-e Kaafi, Vol. No. 1,Page No. 258)

Nothing can remain hidden from the Imams, and they have a complete knowledge of past, present and future. (Usool Al-Kafi, Vol. No. 1, Page No. 260)

So does these narrations contradict the Holy Quraan?

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Re: The issue of Fadak

There you go exposing your reality by quoting from a website by shia killers and shia haters. Why are they afraid to allow access from Pakistan to their website.

Nasibis like you have a tendency of mistranslating and misquoting.

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Re: The issue of Fadak

OMG, from where to where this thread has gone, typical polemics thread, I think there should be some rules to maintain it, like a thread may be between two or three designated people or Mods shall keep deleting off track posts.

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Re: The issue of Fadak

Life and death is in the hands of Allah yet Essa (AS) could revive the dead....go figure

Allah can give power to his chosen people...I don't see the big deal in that

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Re: The issue of Fadak

Okay this thread has digressed and I do not think it is wise to keep this open any longer

I hope we have come closer as a result of these discussions