The Inventor of Milad

[Ahmad_G]

[quote]
Originally posted by Insaniyat:
*Well guys I don't know how each sect stand on the shirk but lets think about it this way, In islam we belief something as nisbaat,wasile or wastaa,Personally I dont see anything wrong by asking to God by giving the wastaa of the Holy Prophet he is a Rehmat for the Ummah, If you think that is shirk then tell me when you go to Qaba and hold its gilaaf and ask to God with its wastaa isnt that a shirk then, Does God live inside the Qaba or its just a nisbaat. I heard from one of my Sunni friends that Hazrat Adam prayers were accepted after he gave some wasta to God but he never told me what the wasta was, or the reference he learnt it from, next time if i see him i'll find it out and let you guys know.
*
[/quote]

Brother, I don't think these people are going to reply when you crush them in the corner. They just don't get it. They don't understand that hadrat Muhammad is the best of Allah's creations!! He's wassilah. We do not worship him! Because he is human, but he is the best of Allah's creations.

No one will really answer your comment that gave a good point, rather they will twist it! for, I'm still waiting for the questions that I had in all posts!

I mean, they are making us all mushriks! all of Ahlus-Sunnah are mushriks according what wahabies say!! all of that is just to prove that they should be followed. Tell them and let them know that true Muslims will never change by the propoganda and lies of some that are nothing comparing to the majority of Muslims.

[Ahmad_G]

[quote]
Originally posted by ramesha:
**
((((We r lucky to be from Prophet muhammad's (phuh) ummat. We r very lucky indeed. We r blessed that we are the ummat of Mahboob-e-Allah.

Who better to make waseela then prophet muhammad and his familly the ahl-e-bayt whom allah has purified from all sins.

I am not saying that making waseela in duas is WJAIB or neccessary. Its upto oneself. But its not gunnah my dear sis as wahabis suggest. They r ignorant as they can be. And worst of all muslims r falling for whatever they come up with.

You dont know what you are missing on my sister. May allah forgive our sins in sadqa of his mahboob nabbi.))))
**
[/quote]

Barakallahu feek sister. Masha'llah, you have washed all of the dirt off and proved the truth that some are trying to cover!.

Now the X sis asked a question, and I hope that she wants to accept the truth. I will just add to what the sisters and brothers in this thread said: Muhammad is our wassilah. We will never go and say: O Muhammad cure me, or O Muhammad grant me Paradise!! although some try to make it look like that, but that's not true nor accepted Islamically.

What Muslims do when they make tawassul (seek wassilah) is by sayin O Allah, I repeat, O Allah, we ask you BY THE GREAT VIRUTE OF YOUR BELOVED MUHAMMAD to grant us Paradise.. Or O Muhammad, I ask Allah by your virtue to get cured. So we are asking Allah, but Prophet Muhammad is the reason for me. Allah's will does not change! Allah willed eternaly everything, so whether we make du^a or tawassul, Allah's will does not change.

If one asked: but how and why did Muslims make tawassul? We say "again", it's because the Sahabah, and Scholars did so. Prophet Muhammad taught us to do so by teaching Sahabah.

In Al-Mu^jam Al-Kabir and Al-Mu^jam As­Saghir, Imam at-Tabaraniyy related the hadith about the Prophet from the route of ^Uthman Ibn Hunayf who was in a circle with the Prophet when a blind man came to address Prophet Muhammad, sallallahu alayhi wa sallam:

The blind man addressed the Prophet by saying, "O Prophet of Allah, ask Allah for me to cure my blindness." The Prophet replied by saying, "If you wish, you would be patient with your calamity, and if you wish, I will ask Allah to cure your blindness."

However, the blind man told the Prophet: "The loss of my sight is a great hardship for me, and there is no one near to guide me around."

At this moment, the Prophet ordered the man to go to the place where al-wudu' would be performed, perform al­wudu', pray two rak^ah, end his salat by saying as-salamu ^alaykum, and then say the following words:
which mean: <> The blind man went and did as the Prophet ordered. Shortly thereafter, he returned to the Prophet's session with his blindness cured.

Then, after the death of the Prophet, and during the time of the caliphate of ^Uthman Ibn ^Affan, a man came to ^Uthman Ibn Hunayf. This man complained to ^Uthman Ibn Hunayf about a matter which he needed to be fulfilled through the caliph, but which was not being fulfilled. ^Uthman Ibn Hunayf ordered the man to go to the place where al-wudu' would be performed, perform al-wudu', perform two rak^ah, and after saying as­salam to say the following words: 'O Allah, I ask You and I direct myself to You in supplication by our Prophet Muhammad, the Prophet of Mercy. O Muhammad, I direct myself to Allah by you, so my need [specify need] would be fulfilled.

^Uthman Ibn Hunayf told him to return after doing this, and they would go together to the caliph. This man went and performed what ^Uthman Ibn Hunayf ordered him to do. However, instead of returning to ^Uthman Ibn Hunayf, he elected to go on his own to the caliph--which he did. When he reached the door of the caliph, the gateman took him by the hand to the caliph. ^Uthman Ibn ^Affansat him on a carpet next to him and asked him, "What is your need that you wanted fulfilled? I forgot all about it until just now." The man informed the caliph about his need, which he fulfilled. The caliph told him, "Whenever you have a need, come to me and I will satisfy it for you."

I hope that this is clear because water does not get any clearer.

---

<<>> Learning the Obligatory Knowledge of the Religion puts the Muslim on the road for excellence and self-betterment. Acquire The Islamic Knowledge!!

Ahmad/Islamic Studies

[Ahmad_G]

[quote]
Originally posted by Ahmad G:
**
- Is prayin taraweeh in cngregation = bad innovation? Haram?

• I having Qur'an with the dots on it, dot for the Ba', dot for the Fa', and dots for the sheen, is that = Bad bid^ah? Haram to have?

• Is using a mihrab where khateeb stands = Bid^ah, Haram?

• Is Mawlid that is done by MILLIONS OF Muslims, worldwide; In India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, sudan, sweden, Libia, Algeria, Shishan, Egypt, lebanon suria.... all of these are committing shirk? = Bid^ah?

• I using the internet, riding cars, watching tv.. all haram?

-.....

all of these things were not done during the time of the Prophet. But Muslims did them according to sahabah and scholars' rule: If it does not oppose the religion, it's not forbiden.

Imam Muslim related from the route of Jarir Ibn ^Abdullah (Check Muslim), that the Prophet said:
which means: <>

The Prophet said: <>

I need answers to every question.

• Is it not bid^ah to put the letters (SAW) or (AS) after the name of the Prophet instead of putting the whole salat and salam for respect? It wasn't done by Prophet nor sahabah!

• Is it not bid^ah follow the sects and leave the Ijma^ and sayings of qualified scolars?!

....... And a lot more.

I need answers to these questions with the prooves on them! otherwise, this would be another escape from the prooves.**
[/quote]

[X_Communist]

Originally posted by Ahmad G:

If one asked: but how and why did Muslims make tawassul? We say “again”, it’s because the Sahabah, and Scholars did so. Prophet Muhammad taught us to do so by teaching Sahabah.

k, i followed all the stuff before this…but this is kinda ‘tripping the boat’…SAHAHBA???..i dont think so.

sis ramesha,
still waiting for the second part of my two questions

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

[Ahmad_G]

[quote]
Originally posted by Ahmad G:
**
((((In Al-Mu^jam Al-Kabir and Al-Mu^jam As­Saghir, Imam at-Tabaraniyy related the hadith about the Prophet from the route of ^Uthman Ibn Hunayf who was in a circle with the Prophet when a blind man came to address Prophet Muhammad, sallallahu alayhi wa sallam:

The blind man addressed the Prophet by saying, "O Prophet of Allah, ask Allah for me to cure my blindness." The Prophet replied by saying, "If you wish, you would be patient with your calamity, and if you wish, I will ask Allah to cure your blindness."

However, the blind man told the Prophet: "The loss of my sight is a great hardship for me, and there is no one near to guide me around."

At this moment, the (((Prophet ordered))) the man to go to the place where al-wudu' would be performed, perform al­wudu', pray two rak^ah, end his salat by saying as-salamu ^alaykum, and then say the following words:
which mean: <> The blind man went and did as the Prophet ordered. Shortly thereafter, he returned to the Prophet's session with his blindness cured.

Then, (((after the death of the Prophet))), and during the time of the (((caliphate of ^Uthman Ibn ^Affan))), a man came to (((^Uthman Ibn Hunayf))). This man complained to ^Uthman Ibn Hunayf about a matter which he needed to be fulfilled through the caliph, but which was not being fulfilled. ^Uthman Ibn Hunayf ordered the man to go to the place where al-wudu' would be performed, perform al-wudu', perform two rak^ah, and after saying as­salam to say the following words: ((('O Allah, I ask You and I direct myself to You in supplication by our Prophet Muhammad, the Prophet of Mercy. O Muhammad, I direct myself to Allah by you, so my need [specify need] would be fulfilled.)))

^Uthman Ibn Hunayf told him to return after doing this, and they would go together to the caliph. This man went and performed what ^Uthman Ibn Hunayf ordered him to do. However, instead of returning to ^Uthman Ibn Hunayf, he elected to go on his own to the caliph--which he did. When he reached the door of the caliph, the gateman took him by the hand to the caliph. ^Uthman Ibn ^Affansat him on a carpet next to him and asked him, "What is your need that you wanted fulfilled? I forgot all about it until just now." The man informed the caliph about his need, which he fulfilled. The caliph told him, "Whenever you have a need, come to me and I will satisfy it for you."

I hope that this is clear because water does not get any clearer.

**
[/quote]

I'm glad that you are following along and hope that you are seeing the proves as must, for your oppostion about sahabah doing tawassul, the best sugestion is to re-read the post! well, didn't you read in the mentioned hadith about the Propeht and the blind man? the blind man and other people that were that are called Sahabah! The Propeht taught the blind sahabbiyy to do the tawassul.

What If one said: well that was done during the time of the Prophet? e.i. that incident was during the time of the Prophet! we say if it was not allowed after the Propeht's death, than the Prophet would have clarified that! AND, we have mentioned the hadiht of ^Uthman Ibn ^Affan (He a great Khalifah and Sahabiyy!) didn't he teach the blind man to make tawassul? yes he did.

So for the question, there's the answer. Sahabah did that. For the opposers, there's the answer with the reference of the hadith. If not saticfied, do not belie al Hadith because it's in the books of the Scholars and will never be removed. If not sure, than verify for yourself.

So, Mialdunnabiyy, Tabbarruk, Tawassul, and visiting the Propeht's grave are actions that are done by the millions of Muslims until now and we have proven that. Therefore, it should stand clear for those who wronged Ahlus-Sunnah to back off and repent from wrongness for the sake of Allah. That is my sincere advice. End of discussion.

And Allah knows best.

[X_Communist]

ramesha, sis,,,you there???

[ramesha]

How?
do you ask ALLAH to forgive you on his behalf? and/or
do you ask the PROPHET HIMSELF to pray to ALLAH for you?

salaam sis,

well my dear sis there is no set way to do it. U could just take their names whenever you are doing duas e.g. after namaaz munajaat or something!!

Well and 2ndly if u still not satisfied then at least stop blaming others for commiting SHIRK!!

Salaam
ramesha

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

[Azam]

Originally posted by Salman-:
**As-Salamun-Alaikum

Surely, bidat (innovation) is nothing but introducing something new in religion. Something that did not exist before. Now tell me is it bidat to spread the knowledge of traditions through modern media like Television, Computers and internet? If it is, we must refrain from such acts for they did not exist in the time of the Prophet (s.a.w.s.). No, my friend, such innovations are haraam only if they spread evil and sensuality. But if they are used to spread Quranic sciences we must make optimum use of them instead of considering them as ‘bidat’.

Wa-Salamun-Alaikum-Wa-Rahmatullahi-Wa-Barakatu**

Good point brother Salman. Very interesting indeed!

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/ok.gif

[Azam]

indeed

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/ok.gif

[X_Communist]

Originally posted by ramesha:
**How?
do you ask ALLAH to forgive you on his behalf? and/or
do you ask the PROPHET HIMSELF to pray to ALLAH for you?

salaam sis,

well my dear sis there is no set way to do it. U could just take their names whenever you are doing duas e.g. after namaaz munajaat or something!!

Well and 2ndly if u still not satisfied then at least stop blaming others for commiting SHIRK!!

Salaam
ramesha

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

**

hmm..i see,but do you ever ask teh prophet ‘himself’ to pray to allah for you?(that was my original question by the way)

–X Commie.

[Ahmad_G]

[quote]
Originally posted by Ahmad G:
** I'm glad that you are following along and hope that you are seeing the proves as must, for your oppostion about sahabah doing tawassul, the best sugestion is to re-read the post! well, didn't you read in the mentioned hadith about the Propeht and the blind man? the blind man and other people that were that are called Sahabah! The Propeht taught the blind sahabbiyy to do the tawassul.

What If one said: well that was done during the time of the Prophet? e.i. that incident was during the time of the Prophet! we say if it was not allowed after the Propeht's death, than the Prophet would have clarified that! AND, we have mentioned the hadiht of ^Uthman Ibn ^Affan (He a great Khalifah and Sahabiyy!) didn't he teach the blind man to make tawassul? yes he did.

So for the question, there's the answer. Sahabah did that. For the opposers, there's the answer with the reference of the hadith. If not saticfied, do not belie al Hadith because it's in the books of the Scholars and will never be removed. If not sure, than verify for yourself.

So, Mialdunnabiyy, Tabbarruk, Tawassul, and visiting the Propeht's grave are actions that are done by the millions of Muslims until now and we have proven that. Therefore, it should stand clear for those who wronged Ahlus-Sunnah to back off and repent from wrongness for the sake of Allah. That is my sincere advice. End of discussion.

And Allah knows best.**
[/quote]

X, just follow Al-Hadith, make du^a' as the hadith is. You can not ask Muhammad for things No! But you ask Allah to forgive by Muhammad. That's how it is according to Islamic contexts.

And Allah knows best.

[X_Communist]

ok ahmad bro, im following you.

but how is singing for mohammed or Allah right in the eyes of islam??

[ramesha]

Originally posted by X_Communist:
**ok ahmad bro, im following you.

but how is singing for mohammed or Allah right in the eyes of islam??**

salaam sis,

Ghoom phir kay hum loog wahein aa gae jahan say shorow howe thay

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

salaam and happy eid.
ramesha

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

[X_Communist]

sis, but wasnt that the topic?

[Ahmad_G]

Originally posted by X_Communist:
ok ahmad bro, im following you. but how is singing for mohammed or Allah right in the eyes of islam??

X, I do accept you following me because that means you are following the truth according to the evidence mentioned.

For your question about Islamic Chants, (Na^t or Madih), it’s permissible to make chants for Allah or the Prophet meaning mentioning Allah or Prophet or Sahabah or Islamic topics. Its permissibility is according to Islamic contexts that I will mention soon. However it’s not permissible to use any musical instruments such as piano, fluke, guitar… even if making Islamic madih, Duff (Tamberine), drums, claps are only permissible not music because Prophet said Music is haram in al-hadith.

What is the proof for the permissibility of Madih? Once a Sahabiyy said to Prophet Muhammad: “Ya Rassulallah, I would like to praise you (make madih for you), Prophet said to him, go ahead (and made Du^a’ for him) and told him to say. And than he started saying his praises.
“ãä ÞÈáåÇ ßäÊ Ýí ÇáÙáÇá…”

Also, Prophet Muhammad when he went to Al-Madinah, the Muslims there welcomed him using duff (Tamberine) and saying the famous chant: “Tala^a-lbadru ^alayna Min Thanniyati-lwada^…” which we all know. And other proves. If some are not certain about these ahadihts, we will post the references insha’llah.

It’s also no doubt that Muslims wherever they are they make Na^t or madih during Islamic occasions like Eids, Mawlids, Ramadan, Hijrah, Isra’ & Mi^raj…

And for the biggest Islmaic multimedia site on the net that I have seen, visit the Muslim Community Radio: www.2mcr.com and choose Arabic Madih and English Madih!. I urge every one to visit and listen to Madih because it softens the heart and increases the love for Allah and the Prophet..

Eid Mubarak to all.

[system]

X-com, let the idiots do the idiot things. Let the innovators, who creat NEW things in the RELIGION of ISLAM creat new things, they will surely go in to the deep-debths of HELL, inshallah and Ameen.

These people will never open their eyes or hearts to see what is in QURAN and Sunnah but they will only see what their corrupt imaams and mulahs says. THat is VERY very stupid, let them show off their highly-stupid stupidity and let us laugh at them for trying to corrupt and creat new things in islam, which was COMPLETED 1420 years ago, when MOHAMMAD was alive. And Allah confirms, in quran that Islam is complete and he has chosen Islam for ALL man kind. Now let these idiots, act like bunch of idol and forefather worshipers and let us watch them go to hell, inshallah.

These people are "sum-mun bukmum, umyun" leave them to die like this, we have done our job to convey what is in hadith books and what allah revealed in Quran, its up to him to show them the right path of SUNNAH OF MOHAMMAD (not their forefathers and mulahs and Imaams, but ONLY mohammad's Sunnah).

Take it easy.

---

*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*

---

----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----

[Azam]

Originally posted by Ahmad G:
** X, I do accept you following me because that means you are following the truth according to the evidence mentioned.

For your question about Islamic Chants, (Na^t or Madih), it’s permissible to make chants for Allah or the Prophet meaning mentioning Allah or Prophet or Sahabah or Islamic topics. Its permissibility is according to Islamic contexts that I will mention soon. However it’s not permissible to use any musical instruments such as piano, fluke, guitar… even if making Islamic madih, Duff (Tamberine), drums, claps are only permissible not music because Prophet said Music is haram in al-hadith.

What is the proof for the permissibility of Madih? Once a Sahabiyy said to Prophet Muhammad: “Ya Rassulallah, I would like to praise you (make madih for you), Prophet said to him, go ahead (and made Du^a’ for him) and told him to say. And than he started saying his praises.
“ãä ÞÈáåÇ ßäÊ Ýí ÇáÙáÇá…”

Also, Prophet Muhammad when he went to Al-Madinah, the Muslims there welcomed him using duff (Tamberine) and saying the famous chant: “Tala^a-lbadru ^alayna Min Thanniyati-lwada^…” which we all know. And other proves. If some are not certain about these ahadihts, we will post the references insha’llah.

It’s also no doubt that Muslims wherever they are they make Na^t or madih during Islamic occasions like Eids, Mawlids, Ramadan, Hijrah, Isra’ & Mi^raj…

And for the biggest Islmaic multimedia site on the net that I have seen, visit the Muslim Community Radio: www.2mcr.com and choose Arabic Madih and English Madih!. I urge every one to visit and listen to Madih because it softens the heart and increases the love for Allah and the Prophet..

Eid Mubarak to all.**

agreed 100%

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/ok.gif

piyaray nabee ka payara madina!!!

yaad jis waqt madinay kee fiza aatee hay
sans laita hon to jannat kee huwa aatee hay

[Insaniyat]

[quote]
Originally posted by The Watcher:
**X-com, let the idiots do the idiot things. Let the innovators, who creat NEW things in the RELIGION of ISLAM creat new things, they will surely go in to the deep-debths of HELL, inshallah and Ameen.

These people will never open their eyes or hearts to see what is in QURAN and Sunnah but they will only see what their corrupt imaams and mulahs says. THat is VERY very stupid, let them show off their highly-stupid stupidity and let us laugh at them for trying to corrupt and creat new things in islam, which was COMPLETED 1420 years ago, when MOHAMMAD was alive. And Allah confirms, in quran that Islam is complete and he has chosen Islam for ALL man kind. Now let these idiots, act like bunch of idol and forefather worshipers and let us watch them go to hell, inshallah.

These people are "sum-mun bukmum, umyun" leave them to die like this, we have done our job to convey what is in hadith books and what allah revealed in Quran, its up to him to show them the right path of SUNNAH OF MOHAMMAD (not their forefathers and mulahs and Imaams, but ONLY mohammad's Sunnah).

Take it easy.

**
[/quote]

Brother u just showed wat a good follower of sunnah of the Propeht u yourself are. Didn't Holy Prophet use to have good Akhlaq, wasnt it one of the thing that attracted others towards the islam, keeping that in mind won't it be a shirk for u to call other idiots rather then correcting them if u don't agree wiht them, Brother first try to follow his sunnah before preaching it to others, Holy Prophet even went to visit the lady who used to throw stones at him, when she got sick.

yeah let me give you a hadith of the Prophet
"Verily, I am leaving behind two precious things (thaqalayn) among you: the Book of God and my kindred (`itrah), my household (Ahl al­Bayt), for indeed, the two will never separate until they come back to me by the Pond (of al­Kawthar on the Judgement's Day)."

i have given the references to this hadith the Salmaan post of ' Hazrat Ali referred in the Holy Quran'

and i have also given the references of imamat in Ghadeer-e-Khum when Holy Prophet give Imamat to Ali, What right do you have to call them corrupt, you never even give me any references that What book did our Imams wrote that contradicts to Quran, and Yeah Islam was finished during the time of the Prophet but Imams are the Muhafiz of it they are a source of guidance, and defenders of islam from the evil, look at their life history brother before calling them corrupt, look how Imam Hussain sacrificed his own family on the way of Allah. U have a problem with y do we respect Abu Bakr's son and not Ayesha, its because he was with Haq, He helped Imam Ali in the battle of Jamal against Ayesha haven't i given the references before that how Ayesha disobyed Quran and led war agianst Hazrat Ali at the battle of Jamal. Isnt it a good example how corrupted some people got after the death of Prophet that they even disobyed Quran, and you think Our Imams are corrupted look at ur beliefs first brother. Does islam allows the wives of the Prophet to disobey Quran, doesnt that justify Imam Ali and Abu Bakr's son was with Haq.

[This message has been edited by Insaniyat (edited December 29, 2000).]

[X_Communist]

Ahmad, none of the above statements of urs (piano/duff/chants) prove taht chanting was performed by sahabas.

none.

if it was, im sure it would have been found in the six 'mustanid' books of the sunni sect....and it is not.

insaniyat,,,ikhlaq is present as long as a discussion goes on...when one ignores the other and continues to ramble on and on bout his/her point of view...it is no longer a discussion.

[Insaniyat]

[quote]
Originally posted by X_Communist:
**
insaniyat,,,ikhlaq is present as long as a discussion goes on...when one ignores the other and continues to ramble on and on bout his/her point of view...it is no longer a discussion.**
[/quote]

Excuse me now what kinda logic is this, I have been asking you sunni's some questions but nobody ever bothered to answer my question so does it mean i shall start cursing or loose my attitude, sister lemme tell u the Akhlaq of the Prophet
This lady use to throw stones at him whenever he use to pass her by and one day she didnt throw rocks on him, so Holy Prophet inquired about it and he found out she was sick, and Holy Prophet went to see her personally and this attitude of his pleased to her so much that she accepted islam, sister Islam even asks us to respect and help our parents even if they are Kafir and you call urself followers of the sunnah of the Prophet, and think the good attitude should be valid unless the discussion is going on, aren't we all discussing here, wow wat a good one when u cannot answer the discussion just ignore it by saying they are idiots, wah kiya insaniyaaat heh, Musalman honey kah dawa kartey hoh aur apna Imaan dekho