The invention of the Hindu

The invention of the Hindu

http://www.axess.se/english/archive/2004/nr2/currentissue/theme_inventionhindu.php

Hinduism is largely a fiction, formulated in the 18th and 19th centuries out of a multiplicity of sub-continental religions, and enthusiastically endorsed by Indian modernisers. Unlike Muslims, Hindus have tended to borrow more than reject, and it has now been reconfigured as a global rival to the big three monotheisms. In the process, it has abandoned the tradition of toleration which lie in its true origins.

By Pankaj Mishra
Author

arlier this year, I was in Rishikesh, the first town that the river Ganges meets as it leaves its Himalayan home and embarks upon its long journey through the North Indian plains. The town’s place in Indian mythology is not as secure as that of Hardwar, which lies a few miles downstream, and which periodically hosts the Kumbh Mela; nor is it as famous as places like Allahabad and Benares, even holier cities further down on the Ganges. People seeking greater solitude and wisdom usually head deep into the Himalayas. With its saffron-robed sadhus and ashrams, its yoga and meditation centres, and its internet and dosa cafes, Rishikesh caters to a very modern kind of spiritual tourist: the Beatles came, most famously, in the sixties to learn Transcendental Meditation™ from Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. Their quick disillusionment seems not to have deterred the stylishly disaffected members of the western middle class that can be found wandering the town’s alleys in tie-dye outfits, trying to raise their kundalini in between checking their Hotmail accounts.

 I was in Rishikesh to see my aunt, who has just retired to one of the riverside ashrams. She has known a hard life; widowed when she was in her thirties, she worked in small, badly paid teaching jobs to support her three children. In my memory, I can still see her standing at exposed country bus stops in the middle of white-hot summer days. She had come to know comfort, even luxury, of sorts in later life. Her children travel all over the world as members of India's new globalised corporate elite; there are bright grandchildren to engage her at home. But she was happiest in Rishikesh, she told me, living as frugally as she had for much of her life, and devoting her attention to the end of things.

 True detachment, however, seemed as difficult to achieve for her as for the spiritual seekers with email. I had only to mention the political situation—India was then threatening to attack Pakistan—for her to say, angrily: "These Muslims need to be taught a lesson. We Hindus have been too soft for too long."
 In the last decade, such anti-Muslim sentiments have become commonplace among the middle class upper-caste Hindus in both India and abroad who form the most loyal constituency of the Hindu nationalist BJP. They were amplified most recently in Gujarat during the BJP-assisted massacre in early 2002 of over a thousand Muslims. They go with a middle class pride in the international prominence of Indian beauty queens, software professionals and Bollywood films. Perhaps I wouldn't have found anything odd about my aunt's anti-Muslim passions had I not later gone up to her monastic cell, one of the several in a large quad around a flower garden, and noticed the large garlanded poster of a well-known Sufi saint of western India.

 Did she know that she revered someone born a Muslim? I don't think so. The folk religion to which the Sufi saint belongs, and which millions of Indians still practise, does not acknowledge such modern political categories as "Hindu" and "Muslim." I think the contradiction between her beliefs and practice would only be clear to the outsider: the discrepancy between the narrow nationalist prejudices she had inherited from her class and caste, and the affinities she generously formed in her inner world of devotion and prayer. It is not easily understood; but it is part of the extraordinary makeover undergone by Hinduism since the nineteenth century when India first confronted the West, and its universalist ideologies of nationalism and progress.

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THE REMARKABLE quality of this transformation is partly shown by the fact that there was no such thing as Hinduism before the British invented the holdall category in the early nineteenth century, and made India seem the home of a “world religion” as organised and theologically coherent as Christianity and Islam. The concepts of a “world religion” and “religion” as we know them now, emerged during the late 18th and early 19th century, as objects of academic study, at a time of widespread secularisation in western Europe. The idea, as inspired by the Enlightenment, was to study religion as a set of beliefs, and to open it up to rational enquiry.

 But academic study of any kind imposes its own boundaries upon the subject. It actually creates the subject while bringing it within the realm of the intellect. The early European scholars of religion labelled everything; they organised disparate religious practices into one system, and literally brought into being such world religions as Hinduism and Buddhism.

 Not only Hinduism, but the word Hindu itself is of non-Hindu origin. It was first used by the ancient Persians to refer to the people living near the river Indus (Sindhu in Sanskrit). It then became a convenient shorthand for the Muslim and Christian rulers of India; it defined those who weren't Muslims or Christians. Modern scholarship has made available much more information about the castes, religious sects, folk and elite cultures, philosophical traditions and languages that exist, or have existed, on the Indian subcontinent. But despite containing the world's third largest population of Muslims, India is still for most people outside it, a country of Hindus; even a "Hindu civilisation" as it featured in Samuel Huntington's millenarian world-view.

 The persistence of such labels in the West is not just due to ignorance, or to some lingering Christian fear of unconvertible heathens. Perhaps, the urge to fix a single identity for such diverse communities as found in India comes naturally to people in the highly organised and uniform societies of the West, where cultural diversity now usually means the politically expedient and hardened identities of multiculturalism. Perhaps, people who themselves are defined almost exclusively by their citizenship in the nation-state and the consumer society cannot but find wholly alien the pre-modern world of multiple identities and faiths in which most Indians still live.

 Certainly, most Hindus themselves felt little need for precise self-descriptions, except when faced with blunt questions about religion on official forms. Long after their encounter with the monotheistic religions of Islam and Christianity, they continued to define themselves through their overlapping allegiances to family, caste, linguistic group, region, and devotional sect. Religion to them was more unselfconscious practice than rigid belief; it is partly why Indian theology accommodates atheism and agnosticism. Their rituals and deities varied greatly, defined often by caste and geography; and they were also flexible: new goddesses continue to enrich the pantheon even today. There is an AIDS goddess which apparently both causes and eradicates the disease. At any given time, both snakes and the ultimate reality of the universe were worshipped in the same region, sometimes by the same person. Religion very rarely demanded, as it did with many Muslims or Christians, adherence to a set of theological ideas prescribed by a single prophet, book, or ecclesiastical authority.

 This is why a history of Hinduism, no matter how narrowly conceived, has to describe several very parochial-seeming Indian religions, almost none of which contained an evangelical zeal to save the world. The first of these—the Vedic religion—began with the nomads and pastoralists from central Asia who settled north India in the second millennium BC. It was primarily created by the priestly class of Brahmans who conducted fire sacrifices with the help of the Vedas, the earliest known Indian scriptures, in order to stave off drought and hunger. But the Brahmans who also formulated the sacred and social codes of the time wished to enhance their own glory and power rather than propose a new all-inclusive faith; they presented themselves as the most superior among the four caste groups that emerged during Vedic times and were based upon racial distinctions between the settlers and the indigenous population of north India and then on a division of labour.

Re: The invention of the Hindu

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by multanimitti: *
The invention of the Hindu

Hinduism is largely a fiction , formulated in the 18th and 19th centuries out of a multiplicity of sub-continental religions, and enthusiastically endorsed by Indian modernisers. Unlike Muslims, Hindus have tended to borrow more than reject, and it has now been reconfigured as a global rival to the big three monotheisms. In the process, it has abandoned the tradition of toleration which lie in its true origins.
[/QUOTE]

No doubt about it. They dump one of their old Gods every year and chose a brand new one in it's place.... lol

It's the same thing with their beliefs. They don't have any of their own, whatever looks o.k. to them they accept it.

Pakidragon, I don’t know whom you address as ‘they’, may be you first find out the actual reasons why some of your antecessors had to accept the invaders religion.
You know why I like the Hindu society? It gives an open approach to new thoughts. And most of all if I have to criticize any of mind set of this hindu society, I am not discarded, not threat, no religious law will persuade me.
If you have no rational thinking, keep yourself away from ideological debates.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by anjjan: * Pakidragon,
[/QUOTE]

That's PakistaniDragon to you brother.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by anjjan: * I don’t know whom you address as ‘they’,
[/QUOTE]

You know who.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by anjjan: * may be you first find out the actual reasons why some of your antecessors had to accept the invaders religion.
[/QUOTE]

My ancesters were living under extreme oppression. Many of the women used to be abused, raped, defiled and then unwanted all due the extreme karam sutra practicing Hindutwa rule by the Rajas. Then the invaders came and married these women to give them respect and dignity.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by anjjan: * You know why I like the Hindu society?
[/QUOTE]

Nope.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by anjjan: * It gives an open approach to new thoughts. And most of all if I have to criticize any of mind set of this hindu society, I am not discarded, not threat, no religious law will persuade me.
[/QUOTE]

That's why 200,000 Christians have been killed in india in the last 3 decades and they continually get burned for preaching their own religion never criticising the Hindu. Didn't 100,000 Hindus razed the Babri Mosque not too long ago? What about that persecution in Gujarat a couple of years back?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by anjjan: * If you have no rational thinking,
[/QUOTE]

I don't. Do you?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by anjjan: * keep yourself away from ideological debates.
[/QUOTE]

I know what i'm talking about. Do you?

huh hindu religion...based on black magic.kill lower caste people..destruct muslims,slaughter people for the sake of "soil gods"....really i can kick these gods and these gods cannot even reply..thts mean i m stronger then hindu people gods...interesting thing is hindu people give "birht" to their gods...wowow....anjan plz reply yaar...dont no how u people go to ur mander which is extremely horrible in looking...

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by chalna: *
huh hindu religion...based on black magic.kill lower caste people..destruct muslims,slaughter people for the sake of "soil gods"....really i can kick these gods and these gods cannot even reply..thts mean i m stronger then hindu people gods...interesting thing is hindu people give "birht" to their gods...wowow....anjan plz reply yaar...dont no how u people go to ur mander which is extremely horrible in looking...
[/QUOTE]

Do you think, it's like Devil worship?

I read Ibn Taymiyyah's book 'The Jinn (Demon) in the Qur'an and Sunnah' and he explained that all idol worship is simply Devil worship because it makes people follow other than the true God.

Multanmitti

1) No doubt about it. They dump one of their old Gods every year and chose a brand new one in it's place.... lol

Can you back this up with facts or this is like the normal idle chatter you are so fond of?

2) It's the same thing with their beliefs. They don't have any of their own, whatever looks o.k. to them they accept it.

Is there any religion without different opinions amongt its people as to what they should believe in and what they should not believe in?

If people were not willing to accept whatever is not OK to them, how do you think, people convert to Islam or convert from Islam to any other religion?

Chalna

really i can kick these gods and these gods cannot even reply..thts mean i m stronger then hindu people gods...interesting thing is hindu people give "birht" to their gods

I have this feeling that you are better placed on the stage of a rabble rousing mob collecting funds for Al Qaeda and the Terrorists who come into India than on this discussion board.

Generally we try to understand different opinions, and try not to insult any religion. Check the forum rules.....

Also why do I think that the next attack is on me....?

I do not find word ‘Hindu’ in any of our religious scriptures. The religion in scriptures is called ‘sanatan’ or dharma, later we find development of ruling clans, like vaishanav, shaiv etc.
It may be shortsightedness or broadmindedness that no one here objects to ‘Hindu’ name.
A christen friend says that it is easy to live among hindus, no one here asks for identity, very uncommon if living in other societies.
I donot know when this hindu system divided itself into different casts. There are upper casts and then, upper among uppers. So are low casts, and further uppers among lowers and lower-lowers casts. This system has taken thousands of years in developing the mindset. And so far there is no clue. I have seen hardcore communists, but remain in cast borders.
Is it easy to convert a Hindu. No it is not easy.
Islam and Christianity invaded the countries, and converted the total population. Result is that Africa is totally converted into Islam, or Christianity. Central asia gave up to Islam, after Arab countries. But in India after so much repression, aggression and offering rewards, a small section could accept the religion of invaders.
There is no coming back in Hindu religion, otherwise majority could return.

I have no objection in calling me a Hindu, but when VHP says that I must worry for Hindus I have objection. This is Hindu culture that I am not ready to give up to a sect mindset.

I am tired of cries for babri structure. Why hindus cannot build up a temple of their choice in India? VHP asks for only three temples Ram, Krishna and Kashi only and not for three thousand where Islamic structures are built after destroying Hindu temples in last millennium.

Pope does not know that 200000 Christians are killed in last three decades in India. I also never knew it. This is what, information, lack of information or too much information?

And what is wrong in a Hindu temple? I like it. A very safe place for eve teasing while chantting Hare Krishna and for good Gupshup.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Toddytapper: *
Multanmitti

1) No doubt about it. They dump one of their old Gods every year and chose a brand new one in it's place.... lol

Can you back this up with facts or this is like the normal idle chatter you are so fond of?

2) It's the same thing with their beliefs. They don't have any of their own, whatever looks o.k. to them they accept it.

Is there any religion without different opinions amongt its people as to what they should believe in and what they should not believe in?

If people were not willing to accept whatever is not OK to them, how do you think, people convert to Islam or convert from Islam to any other religion?

Chalna

really i can kick these gods and these gods cannot even reply..thts mean i m stronger then hindu people gods...interesting thing is hindu people give "birht" to their gods

I have this feeling that you are better placed on the stage of a rabble rousing mob collecting funds for Al Qaeda and the Terrorists who come into India than on this discussion board.

Generally we try to understand different opinions, and try not to insult any religion. Check the forum rules.....

Also why do I think that the next attack is on me....?
[/QUOTE]

Toddy, I don't feel like replying to all these genious scholars who love to insult other's faith, so I am associating it with your post.
Mate if you think Hinduism is a false and inferior religion then you have to come with facts. All the religion of this world have good thing and BAD things associated to them if you want to see the inconsistancies in Islam check thread called "I invite Sher". You should not make mockery of others.

Folks,

The rules of Religion Forum (and for religious discussions in general) clearly lay out that any thread started for the express purpose of insulting a faith or religion have no place on Gupshup's Religion Forum (you can find other places on the net to thrash out such discussions). At the same time, some discussions are good because it allows the people to thrash out "misconceptions".

So, in this particular case, I will like to know from our hindu members, whether they are offended by this thread and want it closed, or they want to use this as place to clear up the points raised in the first post (assuming there are any points worth discussion, IYO)?

Thanks.

Chalna, muslims are hindus,just a bit confused. Hopefully you will revert back to worhipping the many aspects of God, not just one that is pissed off all the time and is in perpetual need for Midol.

I’ve never seen such a hypothetical kind of person before. ‘chanda’ ‘do google better’ next time and bring some facts.

: ). ‘chanda’ why dont you just reffer to s’thing you left incomplete
Unanswered Questions Await For the Smartest Guy around the Fourm ] and we will see who is confused here.

And I’ve a suggestion for you do google better.

What pleasure does it give you to attack someone else's religion? What does it matter to you?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by fakir-e-azam: *
What pleasure does it give you to attack someone else's religion? What does it matter to you?
[/QUOTE]

Whome are you addressing. Becuase I never intended to 'attack' s'ones religion.

Faisal, I personally don't mind.

If you cannot discuss religion or sex or emotions or war or anything else, why have a brain and a mouth? :)

Just one comment though. We need to make a distinction between religion and its practicioners. I have no problems with somebody criticising either, but let's bear this in mind. Yes, hindus practice(d) sati, casteism and what not. But these, including idol worship are NOT part of hinduism per se.

If the practicioners of a religion with 1700 years of history is seen to have, according to the guppies here, various problems or deviations that need to be corrected, isn't it reasonable to expect that a 'religion' (?) that is 7000-8000 years will have changed more from what it was then?

[Please don't respond to the following questions, but think about it: Do you love your mother? Do you love her more than anybody else in the world? Do you idolise her (in the english sense of the word)? Do you worship her (again, in the english sense of the word)? If you had to choose between a living mother and a god who is somewhere, what would you do? Is your mother a devil?

If you find this logic ridiculous, I would agree. But much of discussions about religion seems to have this drift. Is my mother better than yours? Do I even know your mother well? Do I REALLY know MY mother well?]

really how we can call a religion whose god r make by people..again my question to all hindus IF I KICK HINDUS STONE GOD,WILL THEY REPLY TO ME????nooo ....hindu religion does not make sense..sorry if i offended any1 but this is question to anjan arvind and the ike

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Matsui: *
Chalna, muslims are hindus,just a bit confused. Hopefully you will revert back to worhipping the many aspects of God, not just one that is pissed off all the time and is in perpetual need for Midol.
[/QUOTE]

Someone didn't have their rat milk today ? :D haina?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by chalna: *
really how we can call a religion whose god r make by people..again my question to all hindus IF I KICK HINDUS STONE GOD,WILL THEY REPLY TO ME????nooo ....hindu religion does not make sense..sorry if i offended any1 but this is question to anjan arvind and the ike
[/QUOTE]

What is this if not a religion Bashing thread, just coz its Hinduism its allowed, believe you me if it was Islam at question, there would be umpteen threads in feedback. Crying Murder.

Get real guys.

Its as if you are saying hamara khoon ,khoon, aur tumhara khoon pani.

is it fair????

nb: I am a Muslim (For those who didnt realise it so far).

Dear Chalna, your question is very valid. If you kick a stone god, it cannot respond. If you destroy a temple, mosque, kick a graveyard, or a dead body, nothing out will respond. Yes, some followers may get offended and may response you on behalf of god.

What is Hinduism, and why is it known as Hinduism? I do not know. Hindus have accepted this brand name and do not object to it. That’s all.
Today two types of Hinduism are prevailing in India. One is cultural Hinduism, we all are part of it, and RSS Hinduism.
It is not very easy to offend a Hindu on the name of religion, he will just ignore you. But it is easy to offend an RRS Hindu.
This RSS Hinduism is ridiculous and is very similar in setup to system of Islam. You tell your grown up children at Madrisas that your religion is pure authentic and the only one. RSS does the same, tells its grown up children at RSS parade shakhas that Hindu religion is the best, only one and authentic.
And result we know.

Who is Hindu? First of all any one who follows some or all customs, bad or good customs of thousands year old culture in this South Asia is a Hindu.
Or all people who are living on eastern side of river Sindhu or Hind is a Hindu.

I have read that Indian Muslim camps at Hajj visit are named Hind camps, and usually all arabs call these Muslims from India visiting hajja, Hindu Muslim. Theses Muslims from India do not object calling them Hindu Mudslim at Makka, but they make cries if I call them Hindu in India.

So who is a Hindu? Choice is yours.
Dear Chalna, if you have any objection, please write! And kindly do not ask me to translate Sanskrit shlokas. I am zero.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by chalna: *
really how we can call a religion whose god r make by people..again my question to all hindus IF I KICK HINDUS STONE GOD,WILL THEY REPLY TO ME????nooo ....hindu religion does not make sense..sorry if i offended any1 but this is question to anjan arvind and the ike
[/QUOTE]

Mate,, Childish, that is what's your posts are, especialy this one. I have been kicking aound Allah like all the other Fundamentalists and don't see any replies from God. I don't think God himself make any sense. well, after all God was created by some insecure people of the ancient times who could not make sense of the things around them and felt the need to have something like God who knows everything.