Is George W. Bush going to be labeled as the greatest President of our times?
I did not vote for him, but lately what I see happening around the world makes me wonder. It might be pre-maturish to say it right now, but if you look ever since he took office (1st and 2nd term combined) the mid-east is changing. Libya is one example, Afghanistan and the peaceful elections, Iraq and the election there, now it is trickling into Saudi Arabia, Palestinians/Israelis smoking the peace pipe. There are ramblings about Iran and dissent amongst their young college students about freedom and liberty.
Now mind you all of this comes at a price that us Taxpayers pay for, which the rest of the world conveniently ignores, but its ok I’d rather be ignored but have peace in the world for my childern to grow-up in. I think we are witnessing history.
Any yea and naysayers?
AND PLEASE CAN WE KEEP THE LEVEL OF DISCUSSION TO MATURE LEVELS PLEASE!!!
errrr.no Verizom Sahib. There is no single one. each generation posed similar challenges. olding a young nation together...fighting the good fight during civil war....managing the defeat of the Evil empire. I ma with GWB on the strategy...I think his implementation is shoddy.
In my estimation, the ranking would go as such. with very little difference between them.
1) Abe
2) GW
3)John Adams
4) FDR
5) Reagan
And while not president I would put Alexander Hamilton maybe at #3 as one that has maybe the largest impact on what America is today. Think BoNY.
:D on BoNY and Chase for that matter. I should have qualified it with modern times as in; if you were to compare it with presidents after FDR. But you are right from a historical perspective. I am suprised that you didn't mention Thomas Jefferson.
^^ Hate is a relative term. Look at ata-turk, he was probably the most hated in his day, but look at where Turkey is now compared to where it was when he took over.
Same goes for Bush, he might be hated now but lets say if he succeeds in bringing peace to the mid-east and Mid-east becomes the fertile crescent again, would he be looked as the greatest president?
GWB is more like a Prophet for the confused masses of th emiddle east. He will part palestine with a swing of his mighty danda and rain hellfire on arabobos when they get out of line. The people there like that. They deserve GWB as a prophet.
The mid-east is changing? maybe.. but is it for the good?
This President just made sure drug routes in Afghanistan were restored and toppled the only socialist-non-fundamentalist regime in the Middle East with a possibly theocratical state allied in the future with other Mullahs to their east.
And let’s not even start at the homefront.. deficits as far as the eye goes.. a superpower’s economy in ruins..
Well thats why I said peace in the middle east at the expense of us the taxpayer. We are generous people.
Poppy plantations are a serious issue, but with proper engagement and giving the new Afghan Government a chance can be eliminated or at least reduced.
BTW how come no fatwa on Drugs from Ummah?
As far as your first sentence I hope it is for good, but I think muslims in general are quite fedup with violence and now want to move on with their lives.
PA You'd judge a president on domestic issues rather than int'l issues, lets say theoratically he does succeed in bringing peace, wouldn't you think that would be a great accomplishment. I mean those have been fighting since God broke adams rib and created eve.
speak for yourself.. I’d rather be able to pay my bills and stay afloat than to be taxed to death for some fairytale objective of "bringing peace’ in the world..
they were NOT an issue with the previous Afghani government.. Once again this president enabled the manifold increase in cultivation and all other efforts to ‘curb’ it are just for show.. btw is it now the “ummah’s” fault that Israeli drug traders move their drugs through that route? I don’t think the “ummah” is the largest customer for these drugs anyway.
what violence? there was no “violence” except for limited freedom struggles around the world before this President engaged in costly bloody wars.
yes cuz he’s not the President of the world but the President of the USA.. i’d rather he focuses on problems here than drag our collective legs to meddle in affairs of other people..
then theoretically he’d be a good President.
which are we talking about? stay on course here Verizon.. u’re loosing it.. what is this about now? World Peace? Peace in the entire Middle East or just the Israeli-palesteninan conflict? And what did the last two wars and the next two have to do with all that?
Mat i sure hope u have a diversified portfolio. .. i hear Russia has already abandoned it's plans to peg it's currency to the Dollar... how long till the Chinese decide they need to keep more Euros than dollars.. how long till others no longer think investing in this economy is 'safer' than taking it to .. let's say even India.. which is the fastest growing economy..
I am pretty sure that there is fatwa from Ummah on poppy that’s why opium production significantly reduced during Taliban regime. But how a fatwa is going to stop US backed secular govt from producing opium production? CIA has a history of drug involvement. Not just in Afghanistan but throughout the whole world.
1947 to 1951, FRANCE
Early 1950s, SOUTHEAST ASIA
1950s to early 1970s, INDOCHINA
1973-80, AUSTRALIA
1970s and 1980s, PANAMA
1980s, CENTRAL AMERICA
1980s to early 1990s, and now since 2001 AFGHANISTAN
ClA-supported Mujahedeen rebels engaged heavily in drug trafficking while fighting against the Soviet-supported government and its plans to reform the very backward Afghan society. The Agency’s principal client was Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, one of the leading druglords and a leading heroin refiner. CIA-supplied trucks and mules, which had carried arms into Afghanistan, were used to transport opium to laboratories along the Afghan/Pakistan border. The output provided up to one half of the heroin used annually in the United States and three-quarters of that used in Western Europe. U.S. officials admitted in 1990 that they had failed to investigate or take action against the drug operation because of a desire not to offend their Pakistani and Afghan allies. In 1993, an official of the DEA called Afghanistan the new Colombia of the drug world.
You cannot compare the pegging of rouble to the of the Yuan to the dollar. Chinese are being urged to un-peg, even by the US because the yuan is highly undervalued. COnsidering the trade deficit with china, that would actually help American exports.
The measure of the sustainability of th eeconomy is not solely on the basis of the currency valuation. If you look at FII and FDI flows, US economy will be fine for the next 200 years. Whether AK47 believes there will be a khilafah or whether John Nichols believes India will take over the world.
If you remember the deficits of the very early 90’s, they were just as robust, but a good spell of economic fortune of the mid-late nighties gave a tremendous surplus just in a manner of two three years. The point is that deficits are moving targets and fuindamentals of the US economy can withstand such wide fluctuations. No other economy, including the EU can boast the same.
So all this :taaliyan: for demise of the US economy is wishful thinking at best. The smartest people in the world live here. Can’t happen…
Re # 10 I meant Israelis/Palys by.
Aint democracy great and we deprive people in our backyard. I mean here you and I are talking about the priorities that we think are good for us. You want domestic prpblems resolved and I want world peace. You got to vote for Kerry (i think) so did I.
I thought of this question last night while listening to news. It is the momentum of mid-peace efforts that made me open this thread.
But I hear you and you do have some valid points. Matsui can better explain the Euro and stuff, I had an interesting chat with him regarding that a few weeks back.
AS: I think CIA did that for funding purposes. CIA is murky business, they dont hire priests, the job itself is very dirty. But I hear you too. However
Is bush going to be the greatest president should peace be accomplished?
So if instead of petrodollars there will be petroeuros (just sounds gay), US economy will be impacted adversely to the point of collapse? hain? Are you abdalis classmate?
If you think that International transaction in € won't effect US economy then you need to go back and take economics 101 from Borough of Manhattan Community College.
You're giving compliments to a chef as having cooked the greatest meal ever without even tasting it yet Verizon.
After 9/11 the U.S. had the influence and ability to set the agenda on how the world would combat terror, George Bush decide to go cowboy and lost much of it. What the U.S. had after 9/11 is something the U.S. will likely never have again because George Bush’s failure to understand the how the world works, he is a cowboy. Cowboys shoot things first and ask questions later, cowboys see things in black and white.
Bush labeling Iran as part of the axis of evil in 2002 was a major mistake on the administration, The moderates in Iran prior to that had an influence that was growing, Bush's words were a gift to the hardliners as they shifted internal strife and questioning towards the threat that the U.S. openly presented to Iran, the moderates lost their influence.
Iraq is not a success, the flowers and candies were not there, and the U.S. is no longer fighting in Iraq to win but they are fight to not lose Iraq.
Israel/ Palestinians current situation is not about the Bush administration but more about the opportunity Arafat’s death has presented.
The U.S. had the finest ingredients that it enable it to create world policy after 9/11, the outcome that has been served is a microwavable entree, compliments to the chief indeed.
Have you been studying with CM and Abdali?