The Gen Zia mysteries

[Captain1]

Re: The Gen Zia mysteries

@antiobl

Arab terrorism in general against Pakistan and Qaida terrorism in particular started in 1984 and Gen. Zia's assassination was one of its manifestations. Qaida was trying to hit the whole US-Pak-Arab trio when possible and that's what they accomplished by killing top US-Pak Generals, CIA, and US state department officials.

Unfortunately the US-Pak-Arab trio was totally exhausted by 1988 and kind of oblivious from the danger in the midst. Remember that fighting Ruskies took every last ounce of intellectual, financial, and physical strength. When Commies were finally defeated by 1988 (the actual defeat showed up a bit later), intelligence agencies of Pakistan, US, and Saudi Arabia were totally out of breath as well. And due to that shear exhaustion, we made mistakes. One of that mistakes was to let Qaida take hold in Pakistan.

Qaida terrorists weren't focussed too much on Afghan Jihad. Most of these 500 or so terrorists never went beyond Tora Bora. Their contribution to Afghan Jihad is minimal at most. That's why they had energy to plan and attack US-Pak-Arab targets. Peshawar became the playground of Qaida in 1984 and remained so until 2002. During this time, the tentacles of Qaida grew deeper and stronger. And the world has consistently paid huge price for it.

Pakistan and US were so lenient with these Qaida terrorists that US continued giving visas in Saudi without interviews right up until the fateful day of Sept 11 of 2001. While Pakistan continued to host these ungrateful "guests" with warmth and hospitality that they never deserved.

In summary, just connect the dots from 1984 until now with every terror attack against Pakistan, Saudi, and USA and you will see how Qaida has been consistent in its fasid actions.

yaar kia khaa pee rahay ho aaj kal? recipe hamayn bhi batao zara

[antiobl]

Re: The Gen Zia mysteries

^^ Oh baba, kaam ki baat karo naa! Mairay kitchen pay kiyon najar lagaatay ho! [Trans: Captaan brother! say something worthwhile!]

[Reza_Pahlavi]

Re: The Gen Zia mysteries

@ehsan

Yup Bhutto’s biggest mistake for making such an in competent and third rate person as Zia COAS of Pakistan. Fro that he was rightly lynched. Unpardonable sin. Couldn’t agree more .

:k:

[antiobl]

Re: The Gen Zia mysteries

@Haris Zuberi

Interesting angle antiobl!

So you feel it was the Arab extremism. but one may think in 1988 the US-Pak-Arab trio was still at the prime of its romance and unity against USSR? apparently there weren’t many signs of displeasure from any of the 3 quarters visible right before the sudden departure, or were there? Even internal Pak politics was stagnant and calm. The only major opposition was away. And for the Arab jihadi forces to get rid of one of the parties, the US lands and leadership could/should have been a more reasonable and at that time even easily available target. But then again, was the Arab Jihadi uprising ever as far-sighted? I believe it wasnt until much later that OBL and his likes after being un-employed at Afghanistan shifted attn to further prospects and directing guns at the old ally Amreeka.
So in that light too, what for, by who exactly and why was such a departure orchestrated?

People now forget that Arab terrorists killed many Pakistani commandos in a very similar plane crash back on 1979.

On 20 November 1979, several hundred Sunni radicals under Juhaima ibn Muhammad ibn Saif al Utaiba captured the Great Mosque complex. Juhaima came from one of the leading Najdi families. Hundreds of pilgrims were taken hostage, and the Saudi security forces were unable to cope. So international forces including Pakistani commandos had to go in and kill the bloody hostage takers. 250 people lay dead, among them 127 Saudi troops. Sixty-seven captured militants were eventually beheaded for the uprising in four Saudi cities.

Saudi Arabian Jihadis were looking for a revenge. Some of the Pakistani commandos who successfully evicted Utaiba's terrorists from Haram Sharif were returning home on 11 November 1979 via PIA flight. That flight went down due to smoke and fire in the cabin and crashed near Ta'if Saudi Arabia. 

Nine years later Gen. Zia’s plane had smoke and fire in the cabin just like that PIA flight.

[Flame_of_Life]

Re: The Gen Zia mysteries

Who killed Zia?](http://www.worldpolicy.org/journal/articles/wpj05-3/crossette.html)

beats me but maybe the lady has some answers :hmmm:

[moin.ul.atiq]

Re: The Gen Zia mysteries

@zobia

now will u reveal the story of ur Messiah’z death too
wat u say about dat

.

He’s not my messiah. I am Punjabi sunni muslim- NOT Qadiani. Ask Qadianis on this forum please.

[moin.ul.atiq]

Re: The Gen Zia mysteries

People now forget that Arab terrorists killed many Pakistani commandos in a very similar plane crash back on 1979.

On 20 November 1979, several hundred Sunni radicals under Juhaima ibn Muhammad ibn Saif al Utaiba captured the Great Mosque complex. Juhaima came from one of the leading Najdi families. Hundreds of pilgrims were taken hostage, and the Saudi security forces were unable to cope. So international forces including Pakistani commandos had to go in and kill the bloody hostage takers. 250 people lay dead, among them 127 Saudi troops. Sixty-seven captured militants were eventually beheaded for the uprising in four Saudi cities.

Saudi Arabian Jihadis were looking for a revenge. Some of the Pakistani commandos who successfully evicted Utaiba's terrorists from Haram Sharif were returning home on 11 November 1979 via PIA flight. That flight went down due to smoke and fire in the cabin and crashed near Ta'if Saudi Arabia.

Nine years later Gen. Zia's plane had smoke and fire in the cabin just like that PIA flight.

Care to provide link please. I don't think Saudi Arabia has ever done any harm to Pakistan- they have always provided Pakistan with money and technology- to help Pakistan grow.

[Captain1]

Re: The Gen Zia mysteries

@antiobl

^^ Oh baba, kaam ki baat karo naa! Mairay kitchen pay kiyon najar lagaatay ho! [Trans: Captaan brother! say something worthwhile!]

worthwhile post gets worthwhile responses… AQ terrorism started in 1984???

[muali]

Re: The Gen Zia mysteries

@moin.ul.atiq

People take drugs and blame Gen. Zia for their incompetence. How is Zia responsible for drug culture and AK47 culture? If you mean by opening the doors to the Afghans, I would say its a good thing he did. Afghans are our brothers and have always helped us. They are part of us. we need to repatriate 2.5 million Afghan refugees Iran is going to kick out of their country. We must make room for them and tax every Pakistani towards their repatriation to Pakistan. Regarding extremism, Zia wanted all of us to lead lives of good muslims- hudood ordinance, blasphemy laws were the steps in the right direction. Perhaps, you are not aware that he was willing to give breaks to govt. employees offering Salat-Al-Zuhur. Has anyone else done that before? Can't you accept good things he did for ordinary muslims like zakat- compulsory deduction must be made a law.

care to explain your ideology on the higlighted part.
Kare koi aur bharey hum...wah jee wah....
By the way ..wat do we get out of it...???
**

[TLK]

Re: The Gen Zia mysteries

^^ Yes to Muali.

Before helping Afghanis, should not we bring Pakistanis back from camps, sitting in Bangladesh, first. They are PAKISTANI, with capital P. They have more right on us

[Aliyish]

Re: The Gen Zia mysteries

^^ Yes to Muali.

Before helping Afghanis, should not we bring Pakistanis back from camps, sitting in Bangladesh, first. They are PAKISTANI, with capital P. They have more right on us

Bahi I brought it to light one day and the response I got was ‘ we shant be caring about them , they should get mix with Bangladesh and live happily there ‘ .

so i said we shant be worrying about those Afghanis also !

[Captain1]

Re: The Gen Zia mysteries

care to explain your ideology on the higlighted part. Kare koi aur bharey hum...wah jee wah.... By the way ..wat do we get out of it...???

kis se poochh rahay ho bhai...

[Aliyish]

Re: The Gen Zia mysteries

kis se poochh rahay ho bhai...

ek sachay Punjabi , sunni muslim say . who is a true follower of marday momin ! :)

[muali]

Re: The Gen Zia mysteries

@aliyish

ek sachay Punjabi , sunni muslim say . who is a true follower of marday momin !

* right on…*
**
*Kaptaan Sahab yeh lo jee *

[Captain1]

Re: The Gen Zia mysteries

ek sachay Punjabi , sunni muslim say . who is a true follower of marday momin ! :)

egjaktly

[moin.ul.atiq]

Re: The Gen Zia mysteries

@muali

care to explain your ideology on the higlighted part.
Kare koi aur bharey hum…wah jee wah…
By the way ..wat do we get out of it…???

Arrey yaar, baat bahot asaan si hai. Vekho, Afghans have always helped us- turn the pages of history and you will see Abdalis, Sher Shah suris etc. who helped most of the Indian muslims come to Islam- plus they have fought for us too- if your elders lived in Punjab pre-1947, they will tell you that Hindus and Sikhs had put up an impressive fight against muslims in big cities like Lahore and Pindi- they were willing to fight and NOT leave Pakistan during partition. In Lahore, Sikhs and Hindus had the upper hand until Pashtuns from NWFP came to Punjabis’ rescue. Afghans turned the fight in favor of us- after Pathans entered the fight in 1947, almost all Hindus and Sikhs were forced to leave Western Punjab leaving behind properties which helped poor muslims who needed them more than anyone else. If they have made these huge sacrifices for us, why should we shy away from them when they need our help? If we help them, we would have loyal and law-abiding citizens- one day you will see Afghan doctors, scientists and engineers building modern Pakistan

[antiobl]

Re: The Gen Zia mysteries

@moin.ul.atiq

.......you will see Abdalis, Sher Shah suris etc. who **helped most of the Indian muslims **come to Islam- plus

they have fought for us too- if your elders lived in Punjab pre-1947, they will tell you that Hindus and Sikhs had put up an impressive fight against muslims in big cities

Afghan doctors, scientists and engineers building modern Pakistan

This sure sounds like some madrassah style Hi-$hit-ry (bad smelly history). Funny how some people are simply stuck in medieval period and refuse to wake up to the current times.

Oh Bhai sahib, Hindus and Sikhs in Lahore (and West Punjab) were our fellow citizens and future Pakistanis. They had nothing to do with katlo-gaharat (mayham) in the East Punjab.

They are the ones we shared our history, traditions, food, education, love of music, art, literature, businesses, schools, and hospitals. They were the minority, who were supposed to be protected and cherished by us the future Pakistani majority.

And we the Pakistanis as a nation miserably failed in our duty. We let these innocent citizens to be butchered, raped, and looted by our goons. Have you met a Hindu mother or a grand mother from Punjab in particular or North India in general. Let her sit next to your Daddi Amman, then see how similar they are in their love and affection for you.

I don't know about your kind, but our heads are bowed in shame, and our hearts still cry when we remember the butchery of fellow Muslims and the pain we all inflicted on our fellow citizens the Hindus and the Sikhs.

However you will not understand it. Your madrassah rote learning has snatched away all the humanity. You probably support the suicide bombings of modern day minorities such as Pakistani-Shias, Pakistani-Ahmadis, and Pakistani-Christians. Only a rabid Mullah fascist can harbor such hatred.

But I may be wrong! Who knows deep down you may be a decent human being!

p.s. And don't give me this logic that they killed Muslims in India so we must kill our fellow citizens, or they destroyed a mosque in India so we must respond by destroying few temples. This is not humane, instead this style of "Adlay ka Badla" (Tit for tat) is downright primitive,way below and absolutely opposite to the teachings of our Messenger pbuh.

[moin.ul.atiq]

Re: The Gen Zia mysteries

This sure sounds like some madrassah style Hi-$hit-ry (bad smelly history). Funny how some people are simply stuck in medieval period and refuse to wake up to the current times.

Oh Bhai sahib, Hindus and Sikhs in Lahore (and West Punjab) were our fellow citizens and future Pakistanis. They had nothing to do with katlo-gaharat (mayham) in the East Punjab.

They are the ones we shared our history, traditions, food, education, love of music, art, literature, businesses, schools, and hospitals. They were the minority, who were supposed to be protected and cherished by us the future Pakistani majority.

And we the Pakistanis as a nation miserably failed in our duty. We let these innocent citizens to be butchered, raped, and looted by our goons. Have you met a Hindu mother or a grand mother from Punjab in particular or North India in general. Let her sit next to your Daddi Amman, then see how similar they are in their love and affection for you.

I don't know about your kind, but our heads are bowed in shame, and our hearts still cry when we remember the butchery of fellow Muslims and the pain we all inflicted on our fellow citizens the Hindus and the Sikhs.

However you will not understand it. Your madrassah rote learning has snatched away all the humanity. You probably support the suicide bombings of modern day minorities such as Pakistani-Shias, Pakistani-Ahmadis, and Pakistani-Christians. Only a rabid Mullah fascist can harbor such hatred.

But I may be wrong! Who knows deep down you may be a decent human being!

p.s. And don't give me this logic that they killed Muslims in India so we must kill our fellow citizens, or they destroyed a mosque in India so we must respond by destroying few temples. This is not humane, instead this style of "Adlay ka Badla" (Tit for tat) is downright primitive,way below and absolutely opposite to the teachings of our Messenger pbuh.

anti sir, what happened in 1947 was tit-for-tat killing. The killings in India and in particular undivided Punjab started at the behest of Hindu nationalist leaders, Mr. Gandhi and Mr. Patel. Gandhi/Patel wanted a Hindu India with no role for muslims, who were far ahead of Hindus and Sikhs in terms of education and technology(Like Sir Syed Ahmed Khan). The killings in West Punjab were in response to the killings in East Punjab- I am not justfying them anyway. But most of the people who died in West Punjab were also muslims. We, the Punjabi muslims never asked any asked Hindus and Sikhs to leave West Punjab- they could have converted and settled down- infact millions did. I hope you study history brother- Quaid-e-Azam wanted a theocracy with the holy Quran being the guide and the Sharia Law. Ask any Punjabi elder and he'll tell you that.

[Haris]

Re: The Gen Zia mysteries

@Flame_of_Life

Who killed Zia?](http://www.worldpolicy.org/journal/articles/wpj05-3/crossette.html)

beats me but maybe the lady has some answers :hmmm:

Interesting read!

[zer01]

Re: The Gen Zia mysteries

@Haris Zuberi

So who was it? Any clues? Any info on inside talk and the investigation commission’s findings which it seems are never to be released? What’s the common belief two decades later?

Mukafaat e Amal??