The Four Imams and their opinions on shias...please help...

Ok now Sharaabi posted opinions of the four imams and their opinions on shias…

As a general point if these four have a consensus on something then ill believe it…so if what Sharaabi has presented is true then i will quite happily accept it…

This is where my query comes in however…the shias i know tell me that there is a distinction between Rafidite shias and conventional shias…and they themselves see rafidite shias as being extreme…they tell me that the four imams to accept conventional shia as Muslim but have ikhtilaaf…can both shias and sunnis clarify this point…

I know there are loads of threads on this but i thought id be specific as to my query…

Re: The Four Imams and their opinions on shias...please help...

By the most commonly used defination rafidi is someone who considers the fourth caliph superior to the first 3 ...so all shais should be rafidis ...but not all rafidis are shias as a rafidi means a "dissenter"
maybe you are confusing Ghulat with rafidi ...as the Ghulat were a deviated form of shiaism

Re: The Four Imams and their opinions on shias...please help...

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Re: The Four Imams and their opinions on shias...please help...

[QUOTE]
By the most commonly used defination rafidi is someone who considers the fourth caliph superior to the first 3 ...so all shais should be rafidis ...but not all rafidis are shias as a rafidi means a "dissenter"
[/QUOTE]

And the first rafidi is Muawiya who is the first curser of Sahabas, Ahl-e-bait(A.S) and Caliphs by cursing Hazrat Ali(A.S).

Re: The Four Imams and their opinions on shias...please help...

that makes him a nasibi not a rafidi

Re: The Four Imams and their opinions on shias...please help...

Do you have any proof to what you're saying...or is it just one of those lies, which you people churn out so perfectly.

Re: The Four Imams and their opinions on shias...please help...

Rafidites are basically those who reject, who reject the status of the Companions except for like three or five, who are from the Ahle Bait.

This is definetly part of conventional shia beliefs, hence they are all one and the same.

Now if you'd find a shia who accepts the status of Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman as well as all the other Companions (rah), he would not be classified as a Rafidite.

Re: The Four Imams and their opinions on shias...please help...


False.

Re: The Four Imams and their opinions on shias...please help...

you can only reject something you've 'considered' as a possibility, you cant reject something you've never thought of accepting in the first place, hence the title is pretty much flawed and does not apply here.

Re: The Four Imams and their opinions on shias…please help…

Politics and Religion are strange bedfellows!

***When we brought politics into religion that is when the Muslims split into Shia and Sunni…:bummer: ***

Re: The Four Imams and their opinions on shias...please help...

Do you have any proof to back this statement? I have heard he is one of the blessed ten sahabas who are part of Ashra Mubashara.

Re: The Four Imams and their opinions on shias...please help...

are you trying to say that you have nothing to do with the first generation of muslims under the one banner and excepted the status of the Sahabas?

Re: The Four Imams and their opinions on shias...please help...

that depends sharaabi; what is your definition of a sahabi?

Re: The Four Imams and their opinions on shias…please help…

I would disagree, i think its the other way round, its the religion that has been brought into politics. To keep a centuries old feud alive and get from people Khums money. ( I am sorry if i have offended some, but this is what i feel)

Re: The Four Imams and their opinions on shias...please help...

Sahabas are those who were along side the Prophet during his battles with the Kuffars. Sahabi was he, who was with him in Cave of Hira...on that historical journey...such that the Allah granted him the title Thaani Athnain (the second of the two). Sahabaas are those whom the Prophet gave his daughters to in marriage.

btw..your posts are evident to the fact that shias harbor the same rafidite beliefs that our predecessors warned us about.

Re: The Four Imams and their opinions on shias...please help...

k lets not get all defensive and emotional, i just wanted a simple definition cause i know its something we differ on. Im assuming here, the definition for sunnis is anybody who has seen or met the prophet at least once in their life time? now feel free to correct me if im wrong..?

Re: The Four Imams and their opinions on shias...please help...

[QUOTE]
Do you have any proof to what you're saying...or is it just one of those lies, which you people churn out so perfectly.
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For your satisfaction I will not give you one but many references...and even references of sunni ulemas who accepted this fact.

1-Muawiyah, the son of Abu Sufyan, gave order to Sa'd, and told him: "What prevents you that you are refraining from cursing Abu Turab (nickname of Ali)?" Sa'd replied: "Don't you remember that the Prophet said three things about (the virtue of) Ali? So I will never curse Ali."
Sahih Muslim, Chapter of Virtues of Companions, Section of Virtues of Ali - see Chapter p1284, Tradition #5916

2-"Mu'awiya issued an order to curse Hadhrath 'Ali. Upon hearing this Sa'd bin Abi Waqqas said "Even if you place a sword over my head and demand that I curse 'Ali, I will refuse to do so".
Fathul Bari, Vol. 7, Page 74, "Bab Manaqib 'Ali"

3-Ibn Kathir records that:
"Sa'd bin Abi Waqqas said to Mu'awiya you have sat me next to you on your throne and begun to curse Hadhrath 'Ali"
Al Bidayah al Nihayah" page 341 Volume 7 the Chapter "The virtues of 'Ali"

5-When Mu'awiya was proceeding to Hajj he saw Sad, grabbed him by the hand and sat him next to his pulpit. Thereafter he proceeded to curse Ali, Sad got angry stating you have sat me next to you and began to indulge in the awful act!
Tarikh ul Islam Volume 1 page 38

6-"Mu'awiya ordered the people and Sa'd bin Abi Waqqas to curse 'Ali, this angered Sa'd and fearing Allah (swt) he refused to do so, not caring what anyone else thought".
Sibt Ibn Jauzi al Hanafi in His Tadhkiratul Khawass page 113

7-"At the end of the Friday sermon Mu'awiya would say 'O Allah, curse Abu Turab, he opposed your Deen and path, curse him and punish him in the fire.' He introduced this bidah during his reign, his Governors acted upon it, this bidah continued until the reign of Umar bin Abdul Aziz"
Ibn Abi al Hadeed in his commentary of Nahjul Balagha Volume 1 page 464

8-"Upon the orders of Mu'awiya, 'Ali was cursed during the reign of Banu Umayya from Mashrik (east) to Mughrib (west) from the Mosque Puplits".
In Mu'jam al Buldan, Volume 1 page 191 Allamah Yaqoot Hamawi states

9-"Following the deaths of 'Ali and Hasan, Mu'awiya issued an order to all Mosques including Masjidun Nabi that the people curse 'Ali".
In Iqd al Fareed Volume 1 page 246

10-"It is indeed unfortunate that this bidah was introduced that cut the nose of the cities, this bidah even reached the pulpits and even shamelessly reached the ears of those present in the Mosque of Rasulullah (s). This bidah was introduced by Amir Mu'awiya".
Pakistani Hanafi scholar Maulana Raghib Rahmani in "Hadhrath Umar bin Abdul Aziz" page 246, Khalifatul Zahid, Page 246

11-"When Umar bin Abdul Aziz came to power be put an end to the bidah introduced by Mu'awiya, namely of swearing at 'Ali and cursing the family of the Prophet at the end of the Juma Khutba".
In Tarikh Khamis Volume 2 page 316

12-"Traditions were first formed in book form in the days of Ummayads, who, for about 90 years, throughout their vast dominions stretching from the Indus in India to Asia Minor and Spain, insulted the descendants of Fatima and got Ali openly censured in Friday sermons at the mosques. They had hundreds of saying coined to eulogise Amir Muawiya."
Allamah Shibli Numani ,Siratun Nabi Vol.1 page 60

Re: The Four Imams and their opinions on shias...please help...

Ok now Sharaabi has stated that all shias are Rafidi...is that the case?

Re: The Four Imams and their opinions on shias…please help…

I think this is the hadith you talking about..

*The Book Pertaining to the Merits of the Companions *

*Book 031, Number 5916: *Sa’d reported Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) as saying to 'Ali: Aren’t you satisfied with being unto me what Aaron was unto Moses?

Source

Damn, you guys are good at lying and fabricating proofs.

Re: The Four Imams and their opinions on shias...please help...

ok..I didn't know the definition was something we differed on.

Your definition is incorrect. A Sahaabi is one who has met the Prophet atleast once in his lifetime, in a state of Islam.