Re: The Fallacies of Anti Hadith Arguments
The by stander need not be that innocent because he/she does not live in a cacoon or cave of sorts.
Let the innocent by-stander go and seek knowledge raher then passing judgement. Let them try and read these texts and try to understand the religion.
Please.
Re: The Fallacies of Anti Hadith Arguments
^keeping in mind my expectation -which was based on numerous past experiences- of the kind of reply I would get from anyone, I offer my sincere gratitude to you for replying without including any explicit personal attack in your post 
Re: The Fallacies of Anti Hadith Arguments
I agree, and more so than the by-stander, the actual debators should not assume things about the by-stander('s way of living, methods of gaining knowledge, reading or not of these texts) without verifying it directly with the by-stander (which would take only 1 post/PM and 1 reply to that).
But by that time, the by-stander has understood the futileness of even asking out of curiosity or perhaps as a mode of gaining extra information (?) a question to the debators and as such wonders why time and again he commits the same mistake of asking a question to a debator. He even wonders whether the posting of his previous reply is still justified! Whence, having contemplated this, the by-stander decides to leave the thread.
Re: The Fallacies of Anti Hadith Arguments
^ r u thinking you r the only by-stander...
I took the phrase as general ...
Re: The Fallacies of Anti Hadith Arguments
^ r u thinking you r the only debator...
I took the phrase as general ...
Re: The Fallacies of Anti Hadith Arguments
and both are wahies rejection of one means rejection of other some hadees refers to the particular cases ie exception and rejector of hadees normally point out to them , to show that hadees are wrong etc etc
although if you read the siako sabak you can clearly understand that that mentioned hadees refer to the exception so for rejecting some hadees we must atleast have a knowledge of whole science of hadees history and siako sabak of every one
you must have listened that
neem hakeem khatrayeh jaan
*similarly if some one is neem "Mula" that is rejector of some hadees based on little knowledge" is khatrayeh iman * i have very little time so i can't explain all of clearly but i hope you understand
i am talking about exactly the same thing, the problem with you people is that you start avoiding the question and talking here and there.
i am asking can we believe on every Hadith reported in Sahih Bukhari? please answer first and then comment on me or my beliefs
Re: The Fallacies of Anti Hadith Arguments
^ no, you can question it, do the research on all the information around it but don't start questioning for your whims and desires... you know what I mean.
Re: The Fallacies of Anti Hadith Arguments
Come on Cap 1!! i am not questioning on my whims, it seems that no body wanna search the truth and all just playing their own flutes.
If you have a concrete answer to my question above about sahih bukhari please give but do not talk left and right.
Re: The Fallacies of Anti Hadith Arguments
i am asking can we believe on every Hadith reported in Sahih Bukhari? please answer first and then comment on me or my beliefs
if you dont believe in Sahih Bukhar this means that you are saying that Imam Bukhari was a lier and he has quoted a lie not a hadees
if one can't understand any hadees it doesn't means that hadees is wrong , it means that there is some problem with his understanding
Re: The Fallacies of Anti Hadith Arguments
he was not the messenger of Allah.So he is just like our Todays Mullah.U cant say tht about any particular person tht he will not lie.And his Tasanif is free from error.tht why Muslim is so backword and Mullah leading them because we gave them Authority of Our deen.if they say this is shariyaat and we will accept it we will not do reasearch on it.Agar koi in ke books k main yea kahta hai k main is se mutafiq nahi hoo kion k yea Muhamamd(pbuh)k words nahi hai tu woh munkir e hadees aur kafir hoo jata hai.In imamo ka sab se bara karnama yea hai ke har chiz jo inhoonay hasil ke sab ko Muhammad(pbuh) se Munsalik kar dia.aur is main kuch Ghalat likha bhi hoo tu Mullah Yea kah daitay hai ke Yea hadees hai.Hadees ke means news ke hi hai.Aur Khabar ko bayaan karnay wala Shih nahi hoota is main apni kharafatain bhi shamil kar laita hai.First of All hadees books is not Written by Our Beloved Prophet.Its beeen collected by People whom we call Imam.Aur Yea kitnay Achi thai App in kitabat se Andaza laga saktay ha ke in hoonay apni Tasanif main kia kia kharafatain Jama ke hai. jis kaam ko karnay islam aya tha in hoona is ko Islam ka Muqadar bana dia u cant say tht these books r Authenticated as quran bhai yea insaan ke likhi hoye books hai aur is main Shar ka mada rahta hai jaab muslim has been divided in to uncounted firqas in hoonay aisay darwazay ko khat khataya jis main tazad hi tazad aur mushriqo ko muqa day dia k woh islam ke ghalat interpretation kar sakain. 
Re: The Fallacies of Anti Hadith Arguments
do i have said this
prove it
these people aslo brings Quran to us then if these are wrong then Quran will also be wrong according to your theory
Alhumdulliah and we are proud to be , may Allah aslo show you the right path
who say that don’t research , but to do research you should have some basic knowledge , which from your explanations etc doesn’t seems so
sirf kehnay sey hadees ghalat naeen ho jati
for that you have to prove and so far none of the ahdees has been proved wrong , only lame excuses were given by the people like you
waooow prove it , this is totally based on your imagination.
Do the Quran written by our Beloved Prophet bpuh
if yes prove it
again you are blamming on your imagination, be mature yaar
just lame excuses like other hadees rejectors just based on imagination
Re: The Fallacies of Anti Hadith Arguments
Do the Quran written by our Beloved Prophet bpuh
if yes prove it
Quran is written by Muhammad (pbuh) Jaab in ke pass wahi Aty woh is ko likh lia karty thai **
**see this
(52: 1/2/3). The Divine Guidance which sometimes appeared on mount Sinai (and sometimes on the mount Olive ~ 95:1-3); and this Book (the Quran) which is in front of you, written on a fine velum parchment and publicized in the farthest of places; and
(29:48). (As for the proof that this book has been revealed to you from Allah and not devised by you, everyone knows that) Before the revelation of this Quran, you did not know how to read or write with your own hand
Allah, the Wise and the Knowing has said: “The guidance you long for (1/5), is preserved in this Book (15/9) wherein there is no uncertainty, ambiguity or psychological perplexity. This Book shows to the Muttaqeen the path leading to the ultimate destination prescribed for humanity. The Muttaqeen are those who wish to avoid pitfalls of the wrong path, who believe in the unseen (which becomes comprehensible through reflection on the Quran), and are confident that the right path will lead to the destination even though the former may be obscured initially
(6:19) Ask them: “Whose testimony is the strongest to validate what I say?” Tell them: “Allah’s testimony is the best to decide between you and me. This testimony has been revealed to me and is now included in the Quran so that through it I should forewarn you as well as those whom it may reach after you.” Ask them: “Do you still affirm that there are deities other than Allah? If you affirm this I certainly cannot endorse this. I affirm that Allah alone is the sovereign and I abhor what you associate with Him.”
Re: The Fallacies of Anti Hadith Arguments
(6:20)** Those to whom We had given the Book before you recognize the truth**
AGar imam nah kah dia ke quran kitabi shakaal main nahi tha in hoonay maal lia.Allah barha ayaat main kah raha hai k Hum ne is se Pahlay bhi Books de thin inbaya ko lakin Hum is ko manay k liye tayar nahi kion ke Imamo ke baat ghalaat hoo jatay hai.So shame
Re: The Fallacies of Anti Hadith Arguments
I believe that we should come to the point for which this thread was created. Those people who reject completely hadith are definitely wrong. Academic scholars have put a lot of suspicion in hadith literature as now there are many fallacies coming from modern research methodologies e.g. Ibn Hisham wrote first sirat book (Sirat rasool ul llah), he didn't mention any dates, it is easy to forge the chain narration of people especially when collecting information of some event atleast a century or two before etc. But academic scholarship doesn't disregard all of them. It still has some truth. But how to know that it is truth or not. The simple and basic criteria is to see that whether it goes along Qur'an and Sunnah or not. Qur'an is much more authentic source of prophet Muhammad life and its transmission came to us through generation to generation without any flaw. Sunnah is present in the practice of Ummah and came to us through generation to generation without any flaw. If some practice is not Matawatur (continuous), its authenticity can be challenged. A narrative of the words, deeds or tacit approvals of the Prophet (sws) called Hadith and the knowledge gained from them can never be regarded as absolutely certain. Hence, a Hadith does not add anything to the content of Islam stated in the Qur’an and Sunnah. Ahadith (plural of Hadith) only explain and elucidate what is contained in these two sources and also describe the exemplary way in which the Prophet (sws) followed Islam. This only is the sphere of Hadith which falls within the ambit of Islam. Outside this sphere, there exists no narrative which can be called or accepted as Hadith.
The list of Sunnah which Javed Ahmad Ghamidi has developed based on this principle are:
Worship Rituals
i. The Prayer
ii. Zakah and Sadqah of ‘Id al-Fitr
iii. Fasting and ‘Itikaf
iv. Hajj and ‘Umrah
v. Animal Sacrifice and the takbirs during the days of tashriq1
Social Sphere
i. Marriage and Divorce and their relevant details
ii. Abstention from coitus during the menstrual and the puerperal period
Dietary Sphere
i. Prohibition of pork, blood, meat of dead animals and animals slaughtered in the name of someone other than Allah
ii. Slaughtering in the prescribed manner of tadhkiyah by taking Allah’s name
Customs and Etiquette
i. Remembering Allah’s name before eating or drinking and using the right hand for eating and drinking
ii. Greeting one another with assalamu ‘alaykum (peace be to you) and responding with wa ‘alaykum al-salam (and peace be to you)
iii. Saying alhamdu lilah (praise be to Allah) after sneezing and responding to it by saying yarhamu kallah (may Allah have mercy on you)
iv. Saying adhan in the right ear of a new born baby and saying ‘iqamah in its left ear
v. Keeping moustaches trimmed
vi. Shaving pubic hair
vii. Shaving the hairs under the armpits
ix. Circumcising the male offspring
x. Cleaning the nose, the mouth and the teeth
xi. Cleaning the body after excretion
xii. Bathing after the menstrual and the puerperal period
xiii. Ghusl-i Janabah2
xiv. Bathing the dead before burial
xv. Enshrouding a dead body and preparing it for burial
xvi. Burying the dead
xvii. ‘Id al-Fitr
xviii. ‘Id al-Adha
For more information, please see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mizan
Re: The Fallacies of Anti Hadith Arguments
totally out of context
we reject the saying of Imams and we even through their fatwahs to walls
if they contradicts to Quran and Ahadees
but we never say them lier as you do
for example we have a fatwa of Imam Shafi
"when a man in wozo touches the women the wozo breaks"
and it contradicts with ahdees of sanun abu dawood chapter 70 verse number 179 in which it is described that Hazoor PBUH ney apni one of wife ko pear kia and he offer the prayer after that
similarly many others fatwahs of all Imams have been rejected by Ulmahs and scholars
so your claim is wrong
and that is totally out of contexts
Re: The Fallacies of Anti Hadith Arguments
Quran is written by Muhammad (pbuh) Jaab in ke pass wahi Aty woh is ko likh lia karty thai ** **see this (52: 1/2/3). The Divine Guidance which sometimes appeared on mount Sinai (and sometimes on the mount Olive ~ 95:1-3); and this Book (the Quran) which is in front of you, written on a fine velum parchment and publicized in the farthest of places; and
(29:48). (As for the proof that this book has been revealed to you from Allah and not devised by you, everyone knows that) Before the revelation of this Quran, you did not know how to read or write with your own hand
Allah, the Wise and the Knowing has said: “The guidance you long for (1/5), is preserved in this Book (15/9) wherein there is no uncertainty, ambiguity or psychological perplexity. This Book shows to the Muttaqeen the path leading to the ultimate destination prescribed for humanity. The Muttaqeen are those who wish to avoid pitfalls of the wrong path, who believe in the unseen (which becomes comprehensible through reflection on the Quran), and are confident that the right path will lead to the destination even though the former may be obscured initially
(6:19) Ask them: “Whose testimony is the strongest to validate what I say?” Tell them: “Allah’s testimony is the best to decide between you and me. This testimony has been revealed to me and is now included in the Quran so that through it I should forewarn you as well as those whom it may reach after you.” Ask them: “Do you still affirm that there are deities other than Allah? If you affirm this I certainly cannot endorse this. I affirm that Allah alone is the sovereign and I abhor what you associate with Him.”
thanx To Almighty Allah you know this
that Hazoor PBUH havn't directly write the Quran
first wahi come and then he wrote
now come to point
prove that do Hazoor PBUH say some thing that is false and not wahi ie on his PBUH own will ( not according to Allah's will )
Re: The Fallacies of Anti Hadith Arguments
Why would he be considered a 'liar' if someone doesn't believe in Imam Bukhari's works? He might be considered as a human being prone to making mistakes, the work might be considered good but not 100% error/flaw-free.
Re: The Fallacies of Anti Hadith Arguments
If you have a concrete answer to my question above about sahih bukhari please give but do not talk left and right.
Are you questioning a particular hadith or are you questioning entire set of hadith in Sahih Bukhari?
Re: The Fallacies of Anti Hadith Arguments
Now that you are back in this thread and participating, do you have a proof of this from Quran?:
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showpost.php?p=4649202&postcount=19
Re: The Fallacies of Anti Hadith Arguments
IMran in 3 different threads i have asked various questions you seem to go round in circle brother, enjoy life and have a nice though.