About 100 years ago Mustafa Kemal Ataturk (MUsharraf wants to become the second Ataturk) was sent to Libya to fight Libyan army. He had only 8000 troops against more than 100,000 Italian troops. The British controlling the egypt would not allow Turkish troops from Arabian Peninsula to cross to Libya. Mustafa Kamal organised sanoosi tribes of Libya, armed them, gave them money and asked them to fight with him against Italians. During that time he wrote a letter to his friends and said that the sanoosi tribesmen were brave and good soldiers but they do not want this war to end, because they want the money to keep coming.
In 2001 after 9/11 americans had asked Taleban to hand over Osama to them. Pakistan was asked to put pressure on Taleban as well. A delegation consisting of DG-ISI and few clerics went to Kabul to negotiate and it was reported that Taleban declined. Today NAjam Sethi on Geo said that one of the delegation memebers gave an interview later and said that DG-ISI instead of asking them to hand over Osama to US or expel him from Afganistan (like Sudan) instead told them to hold on and take one the americans.
Now according to Sethi, teh then establishment actually wanted americans to attack Afghanistan because in doing so they had to get Pakistan’s support and Musharraf saw it as his Zia moment. To get the dollars flowing from US.
Similar allegations were made post Osama operation on american news media that Apkistanis did not want to catch Osama because they are getting paid to find him.
During Musharraf era their was hardly any concrete operation against Taleban, in one incident 300 soldiers were captured by Taleban without firing a single shot.
IS Musharraf the real double agent to get us into this mess?
you may separate musharaf from isi military etc now but when those things where happening all of pakistani agencies were together. in fact the double game was the only one agenda that everyone there were together in on and fully aligned.
In 2001 after 9/11 americans had asked Taleban to hand over Osama to them. Pakistan was asked to put pressure on Taleban as well. A delegation consisting of DG-ISI and few clerics went to Kabul to negotiate and it was reported that Taleban declined. Today NAjam Sethi on Geo said that one of the delegation memebers gave an interview later and said that DG-ISI instead of asking them to hand over Osama to US or expel him from Afganistan (like Sudan) instead told them to hold on and take one the americans.
Hold on a second. I am not a Mushy fan (as should be clear from my thousands of posts against him :D), is the "delegation member" saying that ISI told them to "take on the Americans" knowing that at most Taliban had few rocket launchers while US had all the planes, helicopters, missiles at their disposal? Did Taliban believe that they could counter missiles, bombs (forget daisy cutters as probably they didn't know those existed)? Things don't add up.
Similar allegations were made post Osama operation on american news media that Apkistanis did not want to catch Osama because they are getting paid to find him.
"paid to find him"??? I thought that war war against "terrorism" and not against an individual? Pakistan is getting reimbursed for the fighting as well as support/logistics provided to US forces.
During Musharraf era their was hardly any concrete operation against Taleban, in one incident 300 soldiers were captured by Taleban without firing a single shot.
IS Musharraf the real double agent to get us into this mess?
Even today there is hardly any operation against Taliban, there is operation against TTP yes, but not against Taliban US wants Pakistan to attack (North Waziristan)... that is going by the accusations/allegations.
Musharraf a "double agent"? or the WOT Pakistan side "double game"? Its likely, but is it for really financial purpose or is it for 'strategic' purpose is the question, more likely its for long term strategy when US leaves the region (would they really?)
Hold on a second. I am not a Mushy fan (as should be clear from my thousands of posts against him :D), is the "delegation member" saying that ISI told them to "take on the Americans" knowing that at most Taliban had few rocket launchers while US had all the planes, helicopters, missiles at their disposal? Did Taliban believe that they could counter missiles, bombs (forget daisy cutters as probably they didn't know those existed)? Things don't add up.
"paid to find him"??? I thought that war war against "terrorism" and not against an individual? Pakistan is getting reimbursed for the fighting as well as support/logistics provided to US forces.
Even today there is hardly any operation against Taliban, there is operation against TTP yes, but not against Taliban US wants Pakistan to attack (North Waziristan)... that is going by the accusations/allegations.
Musharraf a "double agent"? or the WOT Pakistan side "double game"? Its likely, but is it for really financial purpose or is it for 'strategic' purpose is the question, more likely its for long term strategy when US leaves the region (would they really?)
Yes we know Captain that you are not Mush fan. But remember Taleban and co always had delusions of grandeur and at the same time beleived that all us soldiers are cowards. Its true that these days there is no special operation but few years earlier thee was in Waziristan, which did not happen in Mush era and Musharraf later said that it was due to lack of public support.
Yes we know Captain that you are not Mush fan. But remember Taleban and co always had delusions of grandeur and at the same time beleived that all us soldiers are cowards. Its true that these days there is no special operation but few years earlier thee was in Waziristan, which did not happen in Mush era and Musharraf later said that it was due to lack of public support.
Don't forget that these were same guys who had actually fought in the war against Russia so its not like there were not aware of their strengths and weaknesses.
Mushraff and army dosent had any other way to escape to get away from americans possible attack threat in pakistan. be brave to stay with zalimans or face an allied attack, surely with kind help of neighbour country the allied was in very strong position, so army chose to make a decison to save us and our homeland for a possible strike and it was stay with america/allied!! later days things and stegties changed by both sides according to their interests.
Mushraff and** army dosent had any other way to escape to get away from americans possible attack threat in pakistan**. be brave to stay with zalimans or face an allied attack, surely with kind help of neighbour country the allied was in very strong position, so army chose to make a decison to save us and our homeland for a possible strike and it was stay with america/allied!! later days things and stegties changed by both sides according to their interests.
About 100 years ago Mustafa Kemal Ataturk (MUsharraf wants to become the second Ataturk) was sent to Libya to fight Libyan army. He had only 8000 troops against more than 100,000 Italian troops. The British controlling the egypt would not allow Turkish troops from Arabian Peninsula to cross to Libya. Mustafa Kamal organised sanoosi tribes of Libya, armed them, gave them money and asked them to fight with him against Italians. During that time he wrote a letter to his friends and said that the sanoosi tribesmen were brave and good soldiers but they do not want this war to end, because they want the money to keep coming.
In 2001 after 9/11 americans had asked Taleban to hand over Osama to them. Pakistan was asked to put pressure on Taleban as well. A delegation consisting of DG-ISI and few clerics went to Kabul to negotiate and it was reported that Taleban declined. Today NAjam Sethi on Geo said that one of the delegation memebers gave an interview later and said that DG-ISI instead of asking them to hand over Osama to US or expel him from Afganistan (like Sudan) instead told them to hold on and take one the americans.
Now according to Sethi, teh then establishment actually wanted americans to attack Afghanistan because in doing so they had to get Pakistan's support and Musharraf saw it as his Zia moment. To get the dollars flowing from US.
Similar allegations were made post Osama operation on american news media that Apkistanis did not want to catch Osama because they are getting paid to find him.
During Musharraf era their was hardly any concrete operation against Taleban, in one incident 300 soldiers were captured by Taleban without firing a single shot.
IS Musharraf the real double agent to get us into this mess?
Excellent post IC -
Very very possible and logical. Unfortunately the insider making the claims may not be able to substantiate their claims and will be called a liar.
However on the flip side, logically speaking "IT ALL ADDS UP"
Hold on a second. I am not a Mushy fan (as should be clear from my thousands of posts against him :D), is the "delegation member" saying that ISI told them to "take on the Americans" knowing that at most Taliban had few rocket launchers while US had all the planes, helicopters, missiles at their disposal? Did Taliban believe that they could counter missiles, bombs (forget daisy cutters as probably they didn't know those existed)? Things don't add up.
"paid to find him"??? I thought that war war against "terrorism" and not against an individual? Pakistan is getting reimbursed for the fighting as well as support/logistics provided to US forces.
Even today there is hardly any operation against Taliban, there is operation against TTP yes, but not against Taliban US wants Pakistan to attack (North Waziristan)... that is going by the accusations/allegations.
Musharraf a "double agent"? or the WOT Pakistan side "double game"? Its likely, but is it for really financial purpose or is it for 'strategic' purpose is the question, more likely its for long term strategy when US leaves the region (would they really?)
Yes we know Captain that you are not Mush fan. But remember Taleban and co always had delusions of grandeur and at the same time beleived that all us soldiers are cowards. Its true that these days there is no special operation but few years earlier thee was in Waziristan, which did not happen in Mush era and Musharraf later said that it was due to lack of public support.
I would add that the "Sense of Grandeur" was with Mush as well and I really agree with you that he must have seen it as his moment to gain US support after overthrowing Nawaz.
Mushraff and army dosent had any other way to escape to get away from americans possible attack threat in pakistan. be brave to stay with zalimans or face an allied attack, surely with kind help of neighbour country the allied was in very strong position, so army chose to make a decison to save us and our homeland for a possible strike and it was stay with america/allied!! later days things and stegties changed by both sides according to their interests.
That is about 5-10% of the ingredient on the recipe for this current WOT / War of Drones on Paksitan the rest is most likely Musharaf / ISI kichri mixed with US appetite for relentless mono-visioned redemption from the loss of face on 9/11/2001.
Operation 9/11 and General Musharraf’s counter-blackmailing.
A fascinating piece from Media Monitors Network. Abid Ullah Jan also has a new book that looks promising. In addition to Musharraf’s tipping of his hand about Saeed Sheikh, Pakistan’s PM also has confirmed reports that then-Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage – in a conversation with ISI Chief Gen. Mahmood Ahmed, no less – threatened to bomb Pakistan “back to the stone age” if they did not cooperate with the U.S. after 9/11. One could assume that such a threat could not have been made without significant basis. See also Devlin Buckley’s excellent overview of this subject. . for further.
you guys better to read/search a lot of things, to dislike or like somone just becoz you representing just your own theories or some oponent polcitcal party agenda to disgrace someone is not acceptable.
I am not saying here that Mushraff was an agnle, he did plenty of mistakes to stay in power or show his governing power but some of his work with assistance of ISI/Army was just sake of Pakistan stabality and save his AXX.
What Musharraf & Co did after 9/11 was right decision. After the UN Security Council resolution and support of nearly every country except Cuba/Iran & North Korea, do we choice? The question to be asked is did we negotiate well? The answer is not.
As far double dealing concerned, yes he did - he suppose to do that. I remember Ahmed Rashid (authority on Taliban) said in a interview that Musharraf ordered for buildup if their will be any fight with US. Our establishment still think of these walking zombies as strategic assets.
After US-led forces landed in Afghanistan then we understand how deep the cancer of extremism was in society of Pakistan, actually it's already eaten half of our social fabric.
I am not saying that Musharraf had any choice but to co-operate with US, rather questioning whether MUsharraf did encourage Taleban at the same time not to hand over Osama. Did Musharraf want US to attack Afghanistan to get dollars and military technology from USA.