Ok here is the dilemma.. are you as a Pakistani pro Democracy or pro Secularism?
This is the dilemma Pak liberals have nowadays, Mushy has (being a dictator only naturally) gone for the secular option, he cobbled alliances between disparate groups which were previously opposing each other..the MQM-PPP patriots-PML (lota) and even some Baloch and Sindhi ethnic Nationalists on the grounds that he did not want to depend on his buddies the MMA. So what is the option for your average liberal Pakistani? Support a secular person like Musharraf with the full knowledge the whole system depends on him alone? Or support the oppostion, which includes religo political parties who have an agenda you despise, but are the only ones advocating democracy?
Support Musharaf for as long as he is around. His reign may have positive effect by sheparding Pakistani society towards more liberalism, them same way the Zia era turned Pakistan into a fantic state!
Stark contrast to the pervious uniformed dictator, Zia... who combined authoritarian rule with a religious push.
Zia famous question for the '84 referendum was something like "Do you want Pakistan to have an Islamic system of government?". Answer yes, and you got Zia for five years. Bingo!
Arguably this one is a slightly more complex conundrum for the liberals/urbanites in Pakistan. Presumably most ultra-orthodox muslims wouldn't loose their sleep over lack of democracy as their ultimate aim is one person rule in the form of khilafa, anyway.
On the contrary and in case it escaped your selective perception and broad generalization…there is a provision of majlis-e-shoora, in an Islamic form of government, which is no different then any representative democracy…Iran has done a wonderful job of implementing a system, which though not perfect, is atleast far superior to the despotic dictatorship in place in Pakistan at the moment…
Pakistani Democracy is far more unstable then how it is now. We have no real leadershp.. They are all just a bunch of feudal lords and the like. The biggest problem though is from religous fantics etc. We need a liberal secular leader to shepard the country out of the grip of religous fantaics before real stability can come about..
Yes, but you have to agree and most analysts do, that the Zia era with all its religous overtones and such, was the biggest blow to whatever secular character was left in the Country. Its when the liberals and moderates were pushed to the back and the fantics were given a front row seat.. That was the start of Pakistans religous intolerance and sectarian problems and even more global problems like terrorism…
It’s a proven fact that liberalism is a mental disorder and the word liberal with a big ‘L’ has become a cuss word. Yet some of the mushy buffoons want Pakistan to be a liberal state while rest of the societies of the world are trying to clean their image by not wanting themselves to be called liberals. Talk about the irony!
Liberalism is a mental disorder, it should be crushed in pak.
We want a stable demoracy run by the wishes of the Majority of people. We want a good prosperous strong pak. Musharraf is good for pak for present cause he make pak economy strong. but the whole liberal social agenda is what I am against. WE are against underwear gora liberalism.
So what is the pnt of ths cnvrsashon…its the US tht contrls evrythng…we live here and now we see bb bng pushd to the frnt…US thnks they want bb to tke ovr and chnge thngs in pak agan… oh allah us…
When you talk about liberals in the contexts of Pakistan it means respecting Human rights.. When you think of non liberals in Pakistan, its blowing people up and attacking them in marathons.. I think most people with a shred of descency and fear of GOD, would choose to be liberals in Pakistan, over being fanatics…
At least in the Western context, particularly in the american political dynamic, liberalism has come to be synonymous with hypocracy.....One need only look at the way the Democractic party and its various moronic leaders, such as flip-flop Kerry, who had voted for the war, but in the lead up to election, started criticizing Bush on very issue, have acquiesed to the right/conservatives/GOP's policies and political philosophy so that they can be more palatable in the future elections.......While completely ignoring the raison d'etre of and true ethos of being liberal.....On the other hand, no matter how fascist or down right bigoted and unpopular the mansifesto and policies of GOP/conservatives are, they stick to them and never once flinch.....
Same liberals in Pakistan, unlike their counterparts in the west, fail to come out and make a solitary sound at whatever atrocities their master orchestrate against the citizens of the third world…
Thats the problem all over the Muslim world. Because.
1. Unlike the fantics and hardliner lunatics who have all kinds of groups to reprsent them, such as MMA, JI, Taliban, and many other terrorsit groups including Al Qaeda, as well as organized indoctrination through Madrasaahs. Liberals on the other hand are not organized, and as result are for the most part, people going about their everyday lives, working raising their families. They are arm chair revolutinaries, unlike the Fantics who leave everything and dedicate themselves to being everones moral authority and punishing those who dont fall in line. There are a few lone voices emanting from some parts, people who want to change Islam to be more liberal and understanding but they are few and dont live in the Muslim world. Some simply convert to some other religion. We dont like to mention those people.
Liberals arent willing to use force the same way the fanatics are. So they are afraid to take them on... If the Liberals want to win out over the Fanatics, they will have to take to the streets and take their religon back by force if need be.
America has to stop acting like a bully and strengthening the hand of the fanatics and somehow promote liberal ethos.
Liberal in the US is simply campaign tool. Politics is both and neither… Sometimes Liberalism is on the card, sometimes conservatism. All depends on the audience.
The Liberal is not well defined though. What does being liberal entail? Even a liberal has a point where they break. There is a limit to how liberal one can be. In Pakistan, people have no clue what liberal or even moderate means. Most of the die hard Islamaist will assume it entails a complete break down in the moral fabric of society, as though everyone will be running through the streets in a thong!
us…