Re: The Dilemma for Pak Liberals…
Liberalism and Conservatism are the “Kala Bagh Dam” and “Basha Dam” for the US.
Re: The Dilemma for Pak Liberals…
Your basic premise ‘the dilemma for Pak liberals’ assumes incorrectly that all liberals are secualrists. This wud apply probably only in France, the bastion of secularism, but not in England the center of liberalism.
Then you go on to assume that political parties such as lota PML, Mqm and PPP are secularists. Iam quite sure the PML-Q if not right wing is Center-Right, while Mqm is nationalists and PPP searching for liberal agenda.
Your claim that Mush did not want to depend on his buddies the MMA is erroneous by a wide margin. If he didnt then why the MMA-Govt alliance in Baluchistan? MMA Govt in NWFP? And, Opposition leader in the House, MMA? Its quite clear from Govt policies that there is a tacit agreement btw ruling power and MMA.
The religo-political parties supporting democracy? Here again, your assessment/assumptions are absolutely wrong. These parties are against the sitting Govt (Musharraf) as our opposition parties hv done always. For them politics is getting into power, democracy, shamocracy is just another excuse to get into the other persons pants.
As for the dilemma of liberals? Well, this group is the most threatened specie in Pakistan (Muslim world), niether do they hv peace at home or abroad. Mush & Co if anything are a authroitarian form of center-right conservative political spectrum. They may appear to be liberals cause we are swinging from being extreme right. The religo-political parties wish to take pak back to the extreme right, thus the opposition to reform and propaganda of being democrats. These are the most extreme form of conservative, right wing political parties who hv no respect for pluralism what to talk about liberalism. As for the Mush & Co, well they are the “Clone Master’s” of politics. Given a choice they can mutate into liberalists and then into right wing consevatives. Looking at their track recors, they resemble center-right conservatives.
Re: The Dilemma for Pak Liberals...
So called Liberalism is a curse- Pakistan cant live without islam- no country can- thats why LIBERAL countries- are now turning to religion again
nobody is questioning religion- it is the people who control it- Long live Islam
Re: The Dilemma for Pak Liberals...
Liberalism doesnt mean abandoning Islam. There are liberal Muslims out there. We just dont want fanatic Islam. Islam that is forced on everyone is also a curse..
Re: The Dilemma for Pak Liberals…
Good point, Secular and liberal can be mutually exclusive!
Re: The Dilemma for Pak Liberals...
wrong-their is no distiction between liberal and fundementalist islam
Astagfirullah- an educated uncle of mine said that this kind of things would happen- that Islam would be divided just like Judiasm is- there are orthodox jews, liberal jews, reform jews- Astagfirullah- in Islam there is no such things as Liberal or fundmentalist- we are either Muslim or were not- you cant pick and choose aspects of Islam
i am a muslim- i try to be the best servant to Allah as i can- i am neither fundementalist, moderate or liberal- if fundementalist is to follow all aspects of islam- then yes i am a fundementalist- but stop with crap that there is liberal or moderate Islam
nobody sayed islam is to be forced "there is no compulsion" and "Mankind was one Ummah, then Allaah sent prophets bringing good news and warnings.” [Sooratul-Baqarah 2:213]
Re: The Dilemma for Pak Liberals…
Dear Immanwalla+
WHo are Wahabis, Shias, Sunnis, Ismailis, Ahmedis, Ahle0Hadeeth, Salafis, Barelvis, Kharajis etc etc etc? Once u hv figured their origins and differences, please do feel free to express your satisfaction with one version of Islam.
Re: The Dilemma for Pak Liberals...
firstly boy
yes we know there are difference such as wahabi, shia or whatever
im talkin about callin yourself a liberal or moderate muslim is wrong- if we just take for example a ahl- us sunnah follower- one says hes fundementalist and another says hes a liberal- there is no such thing like that in islam
Re: The Dilemma for Pak Liberals…
NanneeAmma,
its ok to be wahabi/barelvi/shis butt incorrect if u r moderate or liberal muslim. Hmmmm, is this goin to be a trick question kinda thingee??
Re: The Dilemma for Pak Liberals...
correct me if i am wrong
wahabis/shia/barelvism is a set of beliefs or intepreations
to make it more easier- most muslims are ahlus-sunnah wal jammah- yep- i dont agree when they say i adopt this part of the religion but i dont like this part of this religion. now dont get me wrong- sects are wrong-
islam is one religion- and as the prophet (SAW) said that the ummah would be split into 77 (i tink) sects- but as i see it- i am of no sect-i am niether moderate, nor liberal nor fundmentalist nor in between-
the problems with muslims is that they have no knowldge of islam say that they can determine the beliefs- instead they leave this unto mullahs and peer sabs who have no knowledge of islam (not all jus some).
Re: The Dilemma for Pak Liberals…
Your basic premise is correct, Islam is and has to be one religion. But, its very difficult to know who has the correct interpertation, it is general belief that Allah will decide who was right and who was wrong. When u hv varying interpertations on sects, u can also hv moderate/extremist interpertations of faith, thus the connotation of liberal versus traditionalist versus extremist.
Re: The Dilemma for Pak Liberals...
Very well said....I agree, I usually like interperting things to my liking/convenience......
Re: The Dilemma for Pak Liberals...
if u think u r confused then u ll be otherwise not.confused kya .....main bhi:D