I’ve been hearing lots of different things about
Dayubandi vs. Brailvi
Please define their differences with precise knowledge.
Kindly respect the opinion of others and no personal/religious attacks are allowed.
You have the “Freedom of Speech” as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone else.
This is for someone who wants to know why there are two sects, may be your right answer could change someone’s life.
Jazak-u-mulallah-o-hhairah
Assalaam-Alaikum,
Deyobundi's are seen as followers of the Madressa Deoband in India, they follow the Khilafat of Hazrat Ashraf Ali Thanveer (ra). They mainly belong to the hanafi school of thought, and are linked to the tableegi jamaat.
Bharelvi's are seen to be the followers of the Ahleh sunnat group, the reason they are referred to as Barelvi's is because they follow the teachings of Hazrat Muhammad Raza Barelvi (ra), which is the town from which Hazrat Muhammad Raza (ra) came from.
The real difference between these two groups lies in Aqeedah, and their beliefs regarding the Prophet (saw) and Allah (swt). For example:
a) Barelvi's believe it is ok to celebrate the birth of the Prophet saw and Deobandi's concider this as bidah (innovation)
b) Deobandi's believe the Prohpet (saw) was not made out of light(noor), Barelvi's believe the Prophet (saw) was.
c) Barelvi's believe the Prophet (saw) had knowledge of the unseen, where as Deobandi's believe the Prohpet (saw) only knew what Allah (swt) wanted them to know.
d) Deobandi's do not allow the use of the Prophet (saw) name with the pre fix of Ya, which is used only when a person is alive. Where as barelvis believe using Ya before the Prophet (saw) name is allowed.
These are just a few examples, and both groups support their views with evidence from the Quran and Hadiths. However on the otherhand
Both of the groups do not differ in terms of believing in the authenticity of the Quran and Hadith, both of the groups are mainly followrs of the Hanafi school of fiqh, and both groups have many learned scholars. Even though the groups differ in some respects they do find themselves on similar ground regarding many aspects of Islam.
This is what i know to the best of my knowledge, inshAllah it will shed some light on what u wanted to know.
Wsalaam
PM
b) Deobandi's believe the Prohpet (saw) was not made out of light(noor), Barelvi's believe the Prophet (saw) was.
not exactly true.... being from the barelvi school of thought, I know that barelvi school of thought does not say such things.. people who follow them DO have their point of views BUT as far as I know, it is about the ROOH of the prophet (SAW) which is obviously from the Light (NOOR) of ALLAH and Deobandi brothers also beleive in that.
c) Barelvi's believe the Prophet (saw) had knowledge of the unseen, where as Deobandi's believe the Prohpet (saw) only knew what Allah (swt) wanted them to know.
absolutely not true... Barelvi also beleive that the Prohpet (saw) only knew what Allah (swt) wanted him to know BUT we believe that he was foretold so many things.
WasSalaam!
Gadha since I dont have any evidence off hand to back up my point, I cant argue with whats youve said, do u know of any web addresses or books which support your views?
JazakAllah
PM
Lessons from the Deobandi-Barelawi dispute
http://www.ahya.org/tjonline/eng/12/16taqlid.html
This dispute amongst the two major Hanafee Sufi groups has led to much trouble over the past century. This rivalry affects every area, street or community where the Muslims reside. Hostilities between these two groups have grown to the extent that they even disagree on the physical sighting of the moon, at times, causing bloodshed and loss of life.
Over the years, the Barelawis have been satisfied with their tombs and Madrasas and have had little activity in terms of mobilizing their followers for Dawah. Their refutation of the Deobandis have been based mostly upon the Deobandi’s double standards like, denying the knowledge of the Unseen for Allah’s Messenger (sallallahu alaihi wa-sallam) but approving it for their scholars and saints.
The Barelawis also continue to criticize the Deobandis upon their views on, ‘Khatam an-Nabuwwah’ or ‘the Seal of Prophethood’, the issue that initiated the split between them.
But in recent years, the Barelawis too have formed Dawah organizations to counter the Jamaat Tableegh. Just like the Deobandis have Fazaail-e-Aamaal, the Barelawis have their Dawah book by the name of Faizaan-e-Sunnat.
The Deobandis criticism is based upon the Barelawi’s openly directing acts of worship to other than Allah. Also, to the fact that many Hindu rituals, superstitions and acts of immorality flourish at graves under the patronage of the so-called keepers of the graves.
The Jamaat Tableegh, which is the Dawah organ of the Deobandis refrains from taking part in this dispute and avoids all controversial issues and anything that would offend the common people who are engrossed in extreme forms of grave and saint worship.
Their modus operandi simply includes calling to their Fazaail-e-Aamaal reading sessions and to spend specific periods of time with the Jamaat Tableegh. This Jamaat does not demand much from the common people in terms of correction of their Aqeedah or understanding of the religion. Rather, a major portion of their followers remain in a state of confusion with regards to the correct beliefs, until a person who has spent a lifetime with the Jamaat may have a very shallow understanding of Tawheed.
He, however, will be properly indoctrinated with Sufism and the policies laid down by the founders of the Jamaat Tableegh, because the basic aim of this Jamaat is to convert people to mere blind-followers of Deobandism.
Whilst the Barelawis have been staunch in their rejection of the Deobandis and the Jamaat Tableegh. The Deobandis have made several attempts to bridge their gap with the Barelawis. This is because they realize that for most part that their differences are not significant and Sufism by its very nature can accommodate even major differences.
The books that the Deobandis have written to bridge their gaps with the Barelawis contain a lot of Qur’aanic verses and Ahaadeeth. This is the same Qur’aan and Hadeeth, which when the Deobandis are asked to refer to, they simply turn away saying, “the Qur’aan and Hadeeth are beyond the understanding of the people of today. Now, the only valid course of action is Taqleed of the Mujtahid Imams.” - It is extremely surprising to see that though both the Deobandis and Barelawis claim to follow the Hanafee Madhhab, they can hardly find anything in their Madhhab to reconcile their differences.
The Deobandis under ordinary circumstances reject outright the possibility that Imam Abu Haneefah could have given a certain ruling based upon his opinion in the absence of authentic Hadeeth reaching him. They strongly stress that every ruling of the Imam is based upon the Hadeeth and binding fully upon the Muqallid. Yet, they take a completely liberal approach with the Barelawis.
Mufti Muhammad Khalil Qadri in his book, “Inkashaf-e-Haqq,” comments upon the Barelawi’s blind-following their founder - Ahmad Raza Khan - in the Takfeer (declaring Kufr) of the Deobandis saying, “Even the personal opinions based upon Ijtihad of the Mujtahid Imams were not taken as Yaqeeni (perfect surety). Then how can the personal opinion of a non-Mujtahid Muqallid Alim and that too on the issue of Takfeer of a Muslim be considered as sure and final?”[1]
Furthermore, both of them believe that the Messenger of Allah (sallallahu alaihi wa-sallam) is alive and aware in his grave.
They also agree that occasionally he visits them either in the Madrasa of Deoband or in the Milaad celebrations of the Barelawis. Likewise, they hold the same belief for their elders and Sufi saints - Yet, despite of all this, both the Deobandis and the Barelawis, when calling each other towards their group neither refer to the Hanafee Madhhab nor seek the advice of Allah’s Messenger (sallallahu alaihi wa-sallam) and neither do they seek the mediation of their Shaikhs and elders - Rather they are forced to call each other using the Qur’aan and the Hadeeth, though they believe that it is neither possible nor allowed to deduce injunctions directly from the Qur’aan and the Sunnah.
Whether the blind-followers like it or not, only the Qur’aan and the Sunnah can unify the Ummah and point towards the One Straight Path of Allah. The Deobandis can misquote, misinterpret and twist the text of the Qur’aan and the Sunnah in order to confuse the common people into believing that the Messengers and the righteous are alive in Barzakh and aware of the living, having the ability to advice and assist - but it is at times like this that their fraud becomes apparent even to the common people without even referring to any books or proofs!
[1] Inkashaf-e-Haqq, by Mufti Muhammad Khaleel Ahmad Khan Barkati Qadri, publisher Anjuman Faroogh-e-Sunnat, Bombay, Chapter.1, p.92.
Pilot and I were discussing this subject and interestingly some one from his family pointed that the touching issues are
1) Naa'at Goee (Poetry & Reciting)
2) Darood Shareef
3) Eid Milad un Nabi
I'm reposting a question that I asked in a separate thread. Thanks to Faisal for directing me here, please do comment:
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by RajputFury: *
Let me begin by saying I am a fervent believer in the Deoband School of thought, however I am a Muslim first and foremost without regard to sect.
My question to all of you is that why are deobandis so denigrated and persecuted in some quarters? I was doing some research and I have 2 quotes:
**"Fatwa of three hundred Ulama against Deobandis
``The Deobandis, because of their contempt and insult, in their acts of worship, towards all saints, prophets, and even the Holy Prophet Muhammad and the very Person of God Himself, are definitely murtadd and kafir. Their apostasy and heresy is of the worst kind, so that anyone who doubts their apostasy and heresy even slightly is himself a murtadd and kafir. Muslims should be very cautious of them, and stay away from them. Let alone praying behind them, one should not let them pray behind one, or allow them into mosques, or eat the animal slaughtered by them, or join them on happy or sad occasions, or let them come near one, or visit them in illness, or attend their funerals, or give them space in Muslim grave-yards. To sum up, one must stay away from them completely.''
(See the Unanimous Fatwa of Three Hundred Ulama, published by Muhammad Ibrahim of Bhagalpur) **
and
**Deobandis should be declared non-Muslim minority
In March 1953, a poster was put up on walls in Karachi titled:
``Demands: Deoband sect should be declared a separate minority''.
Among other things it said:
``Just as Sikhs originated from Hinduism, but are not Hindus, and Protestants came from Roman Catholicism, but are not Catholics, similarly, the Deobandi sect originated in the Sunni community, but are not Sunnis. The representatives of this minority sect are Mufti Muhammad Shafi, Sayyid Sulaiman Nadawi, Ihtasham-ul-Haqq, and Abul Ala Maudoodi, etc.''
After this it was demanded that this sect be declared a non-Muslim minority. It was signed by 28 persons
(see Tulu`-i-Islam, May 1953, p. 64).
**
I would like to hear your views on Deobandis. I am curious to read your thoughts.
[/QUOTE]
In question of one of the earlier posts, by brother SajidKayum I believe, dont Deobandsi reject Sufism out right as "bida" and thus curse those you follow the traditional Sunni path inc. Sufism and so on.
Plz explian this. :)
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by mo_best: *
In question of one of the earlier posts, by brother SajidKayum I believe, dont Deobandsi reject Sufism out right as "bida" and thus curse those you follow the traditional Sunni path inc. Sufism and so on.
Plz explian this. :)
[/QUOTE]
Thats not true Mo. In fact, Deobandis have been involved in Sufism for a long time. What we do consider bidah is Saint Worship i.e., goinng to Mazar for Fateha etc., Also we consider Propphet Muhammed to be a man-- a human, although a very special, favorite one of Allah but nonetheless a man. We do not ask anyone (like pirs) for anything rather we ask Allah. In my opinion, what draws me to deoband is the direct relationship with Allah.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by RajputFury: *
1)
What we do consider bidah is Saint Worship i.e., goinng to Mazar for Fateha etc.,
2)
Also we consider Propphet Muhammed to be a man-- a human, although a very special, favorite one of Allah but nonetheless a man.
3)
We do not ask anyone (like pirs) for anything rather we ask Allah.
4)
In my opinion, what draws me to deoband is the direct relationship with Allah.
[/QUOTE]
1) Going to someone's grave for Fateha is sunnah, but let me recite a sentence from the last khutba of our beloved Prophet (PBUH) here "... don't start worshiping the graves after I pass away, like others did..."
2) Please read and try understanding the subtext of sura-e-noor from Qur'aan
3) I guess all the facts of sunnis agreed on this point but only in Pakistan you see this happening
4) In my opinion you don't need to be affiliated to any school of thoughts in order to have a direct relationship with Allah
Jazak Allah Brothers, Masha'Allah very interesting replies.
I don't want to raise the issues that Salman had mentioned in his reply cause it creates an un pleasent atmosphere of acceptance and denial but I was wondering if this is true?
*1) Going to someone's grave for Fateha is sunnah, but let me recite a sentence from the last khutba of our beloved Prophet (PBUH) here "... don't start worshiping the graves after I pass away, like others did..." *
Right. I was referring to saint worship. I have been to enough Mazar's to see how these fateha's stretch out to personal appeals.
2) Please read and try understanding the subtext of sura-e-noor from Qur'aan
I do not see what you are referring to. I am assuming your talking about Quran 24:47-50? If so, can you clarify what you mean?
3) I guess all the facts of sunnis agreed on this point but only in Pakistan you see this happening
Oh you'd be surprised. Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Indonesia.
*4) In my opinion you don't need to be affiliated to any school of thoughts in order to have a direct relationship with Allah *
The Deobandi school makes the relationship with Allah explicitly and directly with the individual.
We are a lot more conservative in our interpretations of the Quran.
Now my question is that why are deobandis seen with such hate?
I don’t know may be its just a perception. But how would you justify yourself if a brailvi ask you the same question?
Hate to say something like this but honestly it smells like Bigotism, why would you think that someone hates you just because akeeda or aka-ed are different 
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by RajputFury: *
I'm reposting a question that I asked in a separate thread. Thanks to Faisal for directing me here, please do comment:
"Fatwa of three hundred Ulama against Deobandis
``The Deobandis, because of their contempt and insult, in their acts of worship, towards all saints, prophets, and even the Holy Prophet Muhammad and the very Person of God Himself, are definitely murtadd and kafir. *Their apostasy and heresy is of the worst kind, so that anyone who doubts their apostasy and heresy even slightly is himself a murtadd and kafir. *
[/QUOTE]
WoW. So these 300 scholars branded ANYONE a murtadd or kafir even if he doubted. WOW again. That simply tells me that they are closing doors for others so they should not be able to THINK on their own. Its decrees like this which makes me runaway from ANY "scholar".
RajputFury: I think it goes both ways, both sects have regarded each other as "kafirs" and hate just because of that.
Sajidkayum: Do you not see the BIAS in this article? Open up your eyes and open the Quran, Sunnah... close the "scholars".
Re: Lessons from the Deobandi-Barelawi dispute
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sajidkayum: *
.....
They also agree that occasionally he visits them either in the Madrasa of Deoband or in the Milaad celebrations of the Barelawis. ......
[/QUOTE]
Would you mind providing a reference to this statement, I never read/heard this about Deobandis? No, not a "brelvi" reference please.
Re: Re: Lessons from the Deobandi-Barelawi dispute
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Changez_like: *
Would you mind providing a reference to this statement, I never read/heard this about Deobandis? No, not a "brelvi" reference please.
[/QUOTE]
[1] Inkashaf-e-Haqq, by Mufti Muhammad Khaleel Ahmad Khan Barkati Qadri, publisher Anjuman Faroogh-e-Sunnat, Bombay, Chapter.1, p.92.
Deobandism is just Islamic Fascism .
Brothers please read carefully......
Deobandi Bralvi differences are due to lack of "Spiritual" Knowledge...
Our religion Islam is combination of two things....
"Sharia"...... Apparent or physical orders
"Tariquah"...... Hidden or non-physical orders
For example:
Sharia..... is to pray five times a day, with conditions such as clean clothes, place, Wadhu etc.....now this is physical nature of orders.....
If u don't follow the rules ur prayer is not complete...this is step one
Tariquah.....in prayer is to keep ur heart present in the prayer...for every action in Prayer like Qiyaam, Rukuh, Sajud etc there are hidden spiritual benefits if u perform them according to orders......if u don't ur prayer is incomplete spiritually.....this is step two
You can only progress to step two, once you have become competent in step one......Its obligatory to be competent in step one and not to just stop there but to progress to step two
Now Deobandis just stick to Sharia.....and don't try to understand Tariquah...
While Sunnis jump on to Tariquah, which is more difficult path, without understanding Shariah....
That was the key difference between Imam Ahmed Raza Kahn Brailvi and Maulan Qasim Nanotvi from Deoband.....They both have debated with each other on key issues like Ilme-Ghaib(knowledge of unseen)...Milad Sharif Naat etc......
now their debates were based on knowledge......Maulan Qasim was an Aaalim of Shariah......While Imam Ahmed was an Aalim of Sharia and Tariquah....
But today their debate based on knowledge has been converted to debate based on hate......
Calling each other Kaafir, Murtad etc hurts the souls of both great scholars, this is not what they wanted.....
Today Molvis of both sides debate with each other, name n shame each other but how many of them have the knowledge and are competent in Sharia & Tariquah
Re: Re: Re: Lessons from the Deobandi-Barelawi dispute
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Pilot: *
[1] Inkashaf-e-Haqq, by Mufti Muhammad Khaleel Ahmad Khan Barkati Qadri, publisher Anjuman Faroogh-e-Sunnat, Bombay, Chapter.1, p.92.
[/QUOTE]
You can re-read my post, I asked for "non-brelvi" source to prove that.
No Pilot, bro I am not here to criticize, I am just puzzled at all the hatred that is thrown towards deobandis. If a Barelvi asked me the same question, I would tell him that I don’t hate him at all. 