The difference between Dayubandi and Brailvi

Glad to read all the wonderful responses here clarifying things.

Mo_best: care to explain how deobandis are facists?

I think that we all may feel closer to a particular school of thought and that is fine, as long as we can respect each other as Muslims-- equals. What really irks me is the bad press, negativity thrown towards deobandis, I mean what have we done to receive such hate? That was what really troubles me.

While I strongly disagree with many Barelvi or other practices, that doesn't mean that I consider them "less" of a muslim. In the end, we will all face the Creator with our actions, so I would rather make myself a better Muslim before preaching to others.

By "fascists" I mean they tend to hold the most extreme views of Islam, with the most literal interprtations and represent the Islamic right. Maybe fascists was harsh, Muslim Conservatives then.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by mo_best: *
By "fascists" I mean they tend to hold the most extreme views of Islam, with the most literal interprtations and represent the Islamic right. Maybe fascists was harsh, Muslim Conservatives then.
[/QUOTE]

Ok thanks for the clarification. Just to let you know that while my Islam may be conservative but that doesn't mean that I will preaching everywhere. I think you may be confusing theology with politics. Glad to hear your views :)

Only one thing to say...If it's not found in the Quran and Sunnah it is baseless...

Pardon my ignorance, but I have only heard this term deobandi and barelwi among desi's on occassion. Where did these two schools of thought originate? Thank you.

Also, from what I have read here, it seems that there is a bit of sufi thought with both these groups. Is this true?

I thought of both in year 9 RE-I got a A for creativity and a C for explanation. :D

The differences between Deobandits and The Bareilly school of Ahlus Sunnah are explained in detail in this
article:

http://www.sunnirazvi.org/publication/booklets/deoband.htm

:slight_smile:

let all sects and their katth mullahs fight and pick on each others' shortcomings. Who has time for this.

deobandis, barelvis, sunni, shia, wahabi, ... I guess there are no muslims anymore.

:hehe: just look at these two lines and you will know the summary of the site (and which sect the author belongs to) :

. .** Minaz Zulumaati Ilan Noor**

. . Deoband to Bareilly

Just had a cursory look, its very scary. Not because where anyone belongs. But how deep people go to find fault in one and declare anyone a “kaafir”.

The ugliest/dirtiest things ever to throw on anyone would most likely contain any of these (and more in the website):
Beliefs of deobandi, tablighi & wahabi groups

  1. Allah can tell a lie. (Fatawa Rasheediya, page 19 V 1).
  2. Allah does not know before hand what people will do; after people do something, Allah comes to know about it. (Tafseer Bulghatul Hairaan, page 157, 158).
  3. Satan and angel of death have more knowledge than the Prophet (Swallallahu Alaihi Wasallam). (Baraheen-e-Qaateah, page 51,52).
  4. The Prophet of Allah does not know what will become of him in the end, and he does not know what lies behind the wall. (Baraheen-e-Qaateah, page 51).
  5. The knowledge that the Prophet (Swallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) has received from Allah is the kind of knowledge that animals, lunatics and children have. (Hifzul Eeman, page 7).
  6. During namaz (salaat) if you think of the Prophet (Swallallahu Alaihi Wasallam), it is worse than thinking of an ox or a donkey. (Sirat-e-Mustaqeem, page 86).
    :
    :

I am really really thankful to Allah swt where I stand today in belief/faith, may Allah swt keep guiding me.

I have no idea if there is any truth in these accusations. But for sure I don’t believe in any of them :).

Deobandis are messed up, fanatics. And that link given acouple of posts up is awesome-just a case of ignore what you cant beat by the deobandi ppl.

I could’nt care less if anyone who calls himself barelvi and anyone who calls himself deobandi can fight till they are extinct, but I was investigating some of the quotes from the link provided earlier and found some interesting statements that refute a lot of that as sheer lies.

http://www.islam.tc/ask-imam/questions/3195.html

enjoy

and for all of y’all still in this sectarian yipyap. here is a post read it. It may click.

Religious Wars"

By Khalid Baig

Maulana Yusuf Islahi, a prominent scholar and author from India, narrates the following incident. Once, somewhere in southern India, argument developed between Hindus and Muslims over a procession of Muharram floats (Tazias), a practice rather common in the subcontinent to mark the mourning over the martyrdom of Sayyidna Husain, Radi-Allahu anhu. Young Hindus were adamant not to let it pass through a certain intersection while Muslim youth were as determined to go through. To avert the impending clash, older people from the two groups got together and tried to workout a compromise. After much haggling, a suggestion was made that the floats could be allowed provided they met some height restriction. However a thoughtful Hindu elder asked: “How can we ask them to limit the size of the float. They would have to use the size as prescribed in the Qur’an.”

This incident is not typical of the Hindu-Muslim clashes that take place routinely in India. The Maulana used it to highlight the pathetic work Muslims have done in introducing Islam to their fellow beings. But it also highlights another important fact: Many of our religious wars are based on ignorance.

This is even truer in case of our internal wars, those between Wahhabis and non-Wahhabis, Barelvis and Deobandis, Salafis and non-Salafis, Hanafis and Shafiis, etc. etc. We fight over issues that are peripheral as if they were central, or issues over which Shar’iah itself allows a diversity of opinions as if there can be no two ways about it. Or sometimes we have a legitimate concern but we present it in ways that are wrong and damaging. In all those cases we do harm while being sure that we are doing good.

Consider the differences between the four schools of fiqh. As a rule these differences occur on issues that are open to ijtihad; either the Qur’an and Sunnah provided no clear cut and direct prescription or they include injunctions that on the surface are contradictory. The leaders of the four schools of fiqh were qualified mujtahids who used their tremendous knowledge and understanding to resolve the apparent conflict or provide the missing answer. While the answers they come up with will be different, there is no answer that can be called a munkar (evil), as long as it comes from a qualified mujtahid. Shar’iah does not permit us to wage a war against other interpretations because we can wage a war against evil only.

Certainly, these are not petty issues. The attention that scholars have given to them and the academic arguments that have been developed around them are a testimony to the fact that the minutest details of our religious observances have to be guarded carefully so that —unlike all other religions —both their form and substance can be preserved until the end of time. Yet the same scholars have also shown us how not to over-emphasize them.

When Imam Shafii offered fajr salat in the masjid next to Imam Abu Hanifa’s grave, he omitted the qunut and the raising of hands at every movement, out of respect for the great Imam. Imam Tahtavi writes about the visit of Qadi Abu Asim, a Hanafi scholar to Imam Qaffal, a Shafii scholar. Imam Qaffal asked his guest to lead the prayers and asked his muezzin to call the iqamah the Hanafi way. Qadi Abu Asim, on the other hand, followed the Shafii way in leading the salat.

Such accommodation is possible when either practice is acceptable in both schools but they differ on which one is preferable. Many of the issues that divide us fall in this category. But even when such accommodation is not possible, we have to keep the differences in their proper place and never let them eclipse the common ground. Our “religious wars” are a result of ignorance or not following the religious teachings, and not a result of following them. Here are some of the often-ignored Shar’iah teachings in this matter.

We must never lose the big picture. Two persons who truly believe in Allah, the last Prophet, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, the Qur’an, and the Hereafter, will always be closer to each other than any person who does not share these beliefs. One of the unfortunate events in the early history of Islam is the war between Syedna Amir Muawiah, and Sayyidna Ali, Radi-Allahu anhuma. The news came that the Byzantine ruler was planning to invade Arabia to take advantage of this internal rift. Upon learning that, Sayyidna Amir Muawiah wrote a letter to the Byzantines: “If your forces head this way, I will be the first to join the army of Ali to stop you.” This explains why early internal friction — unfortunate as it was — did not stop or even slow down the tide of Islam from reaching the four corners of the world.
We must avoid heated arguments. The differences should be discussed in academic, civilized manner, without being rude. It is difficult for most of us to see the light of truth in the heat of the argument. “Argumentation extinguishes the light of knowledge in the heart,” says Imam Malik.
Our interest should be in closing the gap, not in widening it. It requires sincerity, humbleness, and understanding. During the British Raj, an English judge once confronted a prominent Muslim scholar with a difficult question. “These other religious leaders have declared you a Kafir (non-believer) and according to the hadith when a Muslim declares another Muslim as Kafir, then he is right about one of them. So what do you say about them?” The judge was knowledgeable and clever but he had underestimated the wisdom of the Muslim scholar. “These people have given the opinion because of their misunderstanding that I do not respect the Prophet, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam. And it is true that anyone who disrespects the Prophet, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, is not a Muslim. So while they are wrong in applying it to me, I cannot call them a Kafir.”
Consider unilateral withdrawal. If the issue is not of religious doctrine or law, we should remember the hadith: “I guarantee a home in paradise for the believer who walks away from a dispute despite being in the right.”

  1. Muhammad or Ali do not have authority over anything. The Prophet and the saint (Walee) cannot do anything. (Taqwiyatul Eeman, page 41).

Do you ppl actually hold that view?!

AstagfurAllah, that view si so messed up. How can the master of creation do nothing, and the Lion of Allah could do wonders you will never know.

** I did not use the prophets name, this is a quote. :)

mo best from what I can tell the dude who wrote all that about deobandis lies quite a bit, based upon the other link that I found.

Oh well barelvis and deobandis can kill each other. fruitful life..eh?

Deobandis are staunch Hanafis and Sufis in Tariqa. Their scholars initiate and get initiated in all 4 orders namely, Naqshbandiya, Chishtiyah, Qadiriyah and Suhurwardiyah. They practice dhikr in the prescribed way according to each Tariqa as a means to purify one's soul (tazkiyah-e-nafs). They don't formalize the gatherings of Mawlid or sanctify specific days of years unless established by authority of Hadith. They believe that worship (ibadat) is the exclusive right of Allah and must be sanctioned by Shariah. They regard an action as bidah (innovation) if its done as ibadat without having formal basis in the shariah. They belong to a puratanical school of throught which follows the ahlus sunnah wal jamaat aqeedah. They teach aqeedah manuals such as Sharah Aqaaid Nasafiyah, Sharah Aqaaid Tahawiya, Hanafi Fiqh manuals such as Hidayaah and tasawwuf/philosophical texts such as Shah Waliullah's Hujjatullahul Baligha in their seminaries. They revere Auliya Allah and believe in seeking tawassul through them. They regard the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) as worthy of such respect only next to Allah. They teach love for him in their majalis and consider his noble being as a source of Allah's mercy and blessings for the Muslim ummah until today and the end of time. They believe in the Sufi concept of divine manifestations (tajaliyaat-e-rabbani) where Allah manifests His Attributes in the form of created objects. They believe Allah has manifested many of His Attributes through the noble essence of Prophet Muhammad but they don't, for a second, believe that he shared those Attributes with Allah since it would amount to polytheism (shirk). But since Allah has mentioned him as a light in the Quran, they do affirm he is a man of light (noorani insaan). Of course, its not possible to understand his reality. Its enough to love and respect him in one's heart and model one's life after his noble example.

They affirm the miracles (karamat) of Auliya. They believe that if a person associates with the pious and attempts to purify his innerself by initiating into a Tariqa with sincerety, Allah may grant him special closeness which are signs of wilayah (sainthood).

They follow the Hanafi school of Jurisprudence and their vast contribution to the Fiqh literature serves as a living proof. They lay great emphasis on Hadith and their scholars have written numerous commentaries in Arabic on the 6 authentic collections of Hadith. The entire Muslim scholarship has paid tributes to their valuable academic contributions in the various branches of religion. Their scholars are regarded highly reputable in the Islamic world and have been given positions of Islamic authority on various forums.

The primordial mudslinging campaign that was initiated by Maulana Ahmad Rida Khan and still carries on by his followers, has been thoroughly exposed for its shallowness. Deobandis have been accepted by the mainstream Muslims as ahlus sunnah regardless of the wild claims by the former. They have also been at the forefront battling false ideologies such as Qadianis, Shias and others, another testament of their valiant efforts trying to keep the spirit of Islam intact.

I just want say that, "Deobandiat kay baray main swal har kisi airay ghairay, mochi , nai or Qasai se na pocho, agar jan'na chahtay ho kay deobandiat kia hay to aao Musawwar-e- Pakistan Allama Iqbal(R.A) say poch0. AAp nay farmaya kay "Har parha likha, dendar or ghairatmand musalman Deobandi hay" Or iss ka olat karain to aap ko Brailviat ki defination samajh a jay gi........

You are quite right Thread.* I agree with u. Another thing is that Brailvis say that We Deobandis donot beleive that Hazrat Muhammad Sallalaho Alaihe Waslallam was noor. They don,t tell people the meaning of Noor. We beleive that He (S.A) was noor but i want to ask Brailvis plz to justifiy the meaning of Noor. The meaning of noor is "Hidayat". So this causes confliction b/w simple people.......*

Re: The difference between Dayubandi and Brailvi

why are people making it out as thought deobandi nd brelvis hate each other? lol
well deondis make more sense, as to what they believe, as their practices can be linked directly with the sunnah, and practices of the sahaba (may Allah be pleased with them)
wheras brelvi practices, im sorry to say, arent evident in the times of the salaf, eg. compare a milad celebration, or walk whateveber they do, to what tableeghi jamaat do, and they effect on peoples deeni lives.