First is the PPP proposed version and then the PMLN version. There aren’t any major differences between the two. The charter is expected to be finalized on 14 May with slight ammendments.
What would you guys think should be added/removed/altered/rephrased in the charter and what role could it play in the future?
Are BB & NS trying to appear sincere about democracy for Pakistan’s sake or for their own…?
Or is the word ‘democracy’ just a very effective sharp object which by coincidence has fallen in their hands which they can use to hurt the ‘Achilles’ Heel’ of their rival for own agendas…?
Politicians are a fickle breed ..whether fauji politicians or civilian..the difefrence between words and actions is very deep..however out of the two I think the Nawaz League is more radical..and the PPP one is more open to compromise/deal
The autonomy issue and FATA have not been addressed at all..neither has a good mechanism for judicial appointments that is not open to interference.
In point 6, isn’t National Security Council an independent institute? Why would they want to abolish that? Answer: to maintain full control of govt and not be interrupted for looting Number 8 is joke as well. Point number 20 is ineteresting
Bhutto and Nawaz can rot in hell. "We are fighting for the sake of the Pakistani people" she says...well atleast I dont want her to rear her ugly head over Pakistan. Democracy is useless in a corrupt political system. Militancy, should the militant really care for the country, is infinitely preferable. If politicians could really care for the country, and work towards its prosperity rather than their own, then democracy would be great. Ironically, the people really robbing Pakistan of democracy are the corrupt politicians Bhutto and Nawaz themselves.
13. A truth and reconciliation commission be established to acknowledge victims of torture, imprisonment and state-sponsored persecution from 1976 to 2005.
Benazir can in no way be serious about implementing that point - ever. If she was then she and her previous government ministers would be hauled into court for carrying out the extra-judicial killings and torture of thousands of Mohajirs in the 1993-1996 period.
Benazir can in no way be serious about implementing that point - ever. If she was then she and her previous government ministers would be hauled into court for carrying out the extra-judicial killings and torture of thousands of Mohajirs in the 1993-1996 period.
r u serious, whereas, ironically its mohagirs under MQM who killed and tortured as many as ur saying..until they tortured some army people.. even today MQM is involved in taking bhattas .. present Govenor of Sindh is an proclaimed offender...
they are but pawns in bigger games and being called upon to do their masters bidding. I mean nothing surprising here, they would be in favour for sometime, they will use that opportunity to do loot khasoot and settle old scores, then they will not be needed and will be out again. We have proxy rulers and have had them for decades, whats different now.
^ True Pir ji, *deen imaan *is scarce in our politics...
Zakk, Thats what i noticed too among other things, the charter is visibly focused only on assuring totally disturbance free rule for the rulers...no mention of numerous other aspects concerning democracy and its implemenation.
President Farooq Leghari stated one of his reasons for dismissing the PPP government was the extra-judicial killings it had carried out against Mohajirs in Sindh.
Benazir Bhutto is a proclaimed offender as well, on top of all the cases against her in Switzerland and Spain.
SB and Degas: That reason alone (killing/torture of opposition party/members) would disqualify all of PPP and MQM, the remainder would be JI and ML (NS) whereas ML (NS) would run out of people when white-collar-criminals are captured, I'm sure lots JI will endup in jail as well.
Benazir Bhutto is a proclaimed offender as well, on top of all the cases against her in Switzerland and Spain.
Every President hands out such list of offences to justify past dismissed governments.. check out Gen Zia, Ishaq and other speaches...
Cases against Benazir are entirely different and she has been acquited in most of them.. and were politically motivated.. withg each acquited case she earns an apology from the llikes of those who opposes here..
Altaf Hussain on other hand has 260 cases and most of them are criminal like killing, torture kidnapping and others.. Interestingly , why he has not visited Pakistan even after his party is power and has joined hands with Musharaf? He has his man as Governor (another killer) while home minister of Sindh is also from MQM.. still he cant come to Pakistan!!!!
Fact is Altaf - taxi driver in the United States,was handpicked by Zia to keep PPP influence down in Sindh and sowed seeds of hate by helping Altaf and a natioalist party to prosper . The result, was militant bands with a hand in the drug trade of Karachi composing of of 5,000-6,000 hit men and notorious criminals. Carjacking, land grabbing, extortion, kidnapping, drug running, illegal construction made them huge sum of money which gave them remarkable gains in successive elections. Altaf also opened up a number of torture cells around the city for (reporters, human rights activists, doctors, police officials, etc.) who refused to toe his line. All know that ironically he tortured some army people and result was he had to flew the country..
Cases against Benazir are entirely different and she has been acquited in most of them.. and were politically motivated.. withg each acquited case she earns an apology from the llikes of those who opposes here..
Altaf Hussain on other hand has 260 cases and most of them are criminal like killing, torture kidnapping and others.. Interestingly , why he has not visited Pakistan even after his party is power and has joined hands with Musharaf? He has his man as Governor (another killer) while home minister of Sindh is also from MQM.. still he cant come to Pakistan!!!!
Fact is Altaf - taxi driver in the United States,was handpicked by Zia to keep PPP influence down in Sindh and sowed seeds of hate by helping Altaf and a natioalist party to prosper . The result, was militant bands with a hand in the drug trade of Karachi composing of of 5,000-6,000 hit men and notorious criminals. Carjacking, land grabbing, extortion, kidnapping, drug running, illegal construction made them huge sum of money which gave them remarkable gains in successive elections. Altaf also opened up a number of torture cells around the city for (reporters, human rights activists, doctors, police officials, etc.) who refused to toe his line. All know that ironically he tortured some army people and result was he had to flew the country..
Unlike Zia, Benazir handpicked Leghari to be President so your comparisons are rather false. His claims that her government committed extra-judicial killings in Karachi, are backed up by domestic and international human rights reports.
Why would the courts of Switzerland and Spain be politically victimsing her?
Fact is she married the son of cinema owner (Zardari) who went onto loot the state, and according to most people in her home province kill her brother Murtaza, as well.
so why not ur MQM - who is in power today dont try her in those killings? still waiting why Altaf is still vanished and not facing criminal (260) cases in pakistan.. Benazir and Zardari have proven dozens of times that cases were fabricated.. have been acquited in many.. PPP is a party deep rooted in masses in all provinces whereas MQM - just a hollow slogan created by Zia.. people who still call themselves mohajirs after 59 years in their own country is a real laughing stuff.. Altaf is still getting batta from Karachi and getting fat as a Bristish National..
This thread is about an agreement between two stalwarts in Pakistan's politics and bringing MQM in the thread is a joke..
WE have to see what happens if this Charter is not in place... same general and his hand picked corrupt politicians.. no accountability of army in the country.. by 1973 constitution Defence Minister is head of miltary affairs but presently.. no one can ask not even the infamous NAB to check malpractices by army.. following are some great suggetions to save our country shameful situation..
The appointment of the three services chiefs and the CJCSC must be made by the chief executive, who is the prime minister, as per the 1973 Constitution.
The ISI and other security agencies must be made accountable to the prime minister and the cabinet, and stopped from interfering in the political process.
The defence budget to be approved by the cabinet and discussed by the defence committee of parliament.
Military land allotments and cantonment jurisdictions to come under the cabinet through the ministry of defence.
In the presence of a defence committee of parliament, the National Security Council must be abolished.
There should be another one stating whoever sides with army to belittle constitution be declared as a traitor to democracy..
This thread is about an agreement between two stalwarts in Pakistan's politics and bringing MQM in the thread is a joke..
I am not exactly an MQM supporter, but no one can deny that it has deep rooted support in the major urban centres of Sindh, and even the PPP could not rule without it's support in the 1988-90 era.
You did not add address the point that Leghari was handpicked by BB to be President of Pakistan, and he dismissed her government stating that her government had committed widespread human rights abuses in Karachi. Even international human rights reports stated this at the time.
Benazir has been also been in London for the last 7 years as well, afraid to face the corruption charges that she is still charged with. Those charges that you say were fabricated against her were under Nawaz, the very man she is now making deals with.
She is still fighting the cases against her in the Swiss and Spanish courts for years now, without clearing her name. Were those fabricated as well by those respective governments?
Benazir Bhutto's future will be decided by the Swiss and Spanish courts well before the 2007/08 elections. Nawaz Sharif cannot come back to Pakistan, until at least Dec 2010. If he wanted to he will have to win the approval of Pakistan military and Saudi Royal family.
Whoever rules Pakistan after Musharraf will not let either Prime Minister again, and most people will go along with that. The PPP will make some sort of deal with Musharraf, and if not it will be Shabhaz Sharif, who might be allowed back. So this charter is utterly meaningless.
Number 8 is joke as well. Point number 20 is ineteresting 