The champ of democracy.. General Pervez Musharraf

So the guy who brought a coup in dark, had two key positions of CEO and COAS with him and stayed there for 9 years is claiming he got the real democracy. :k:

I admire his system of elections of “Nazim” and “Naeb-Nazim” at the root level but the guy had no endurance for others, how could he bring a democracy. He imposed freaking emergency in country #Khulatazaad](http://www.paklinks.com/gs/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=Khulatazaad)

*(http://tribune.com.pk/story/840890/i-brought-real-democracy-to-pakistan-pervez-musharraf/)

*(http://tribune.com.pk/story/840890/i-brought-real-democracy-to-pakistan-pervez-musharraf/)By Web Desk
Published: February 19, 2015
*

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Former president retd General Pervez Musharraf. PHOTO: AFP

Former president general (retd) Pervez Musharraf blatantly stated that he was the man who brought real democracy to Pakistan.
“People assume that just because there are elections, there is a democratic set-up in place,” the former dictator said in an exclusive interview with Indian media channel Zee News.
“Elections are just the beginning of democracy,” he said.
The former president said that India should start treating Pakistan as a sovereign state. “India should not ask us to submit to them, only then will it clear tensions between the two countries. And we will move forward through bilateral relations.”
Musharraf said that he would not attend incumbent Indian president Narendra Modi’s oath-taking ceremony – unlike Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif did.
“I would certainly not visit India for Modi’s oath ceremony,” Musharraf said. Instead, the former dictator – who is currently facing several cases such as being tried for treason, and for the murders of former prime minister Benazir Bhutto and Nawab Akbar Bughti – said he would visit Modi separately after the ceremony was done with.
“I would come separately, but only to discuss substantive issues,” he stated.
Speaking about relations with former Indian prime minster Atal Bihari Vajpayee, Musharraf narrated a conversation he had with him.
“I said to him, prime minster sahib, there appears to be somebody above both of us who has veto power on our decisions,” he said. He spoke of how he told Vajpayee that they were “both being humiliated”.
Additionally, with the cricket World Cup in our midst, it was no surprise that the sport and its role in the relations between Pakistan and India would be a matter of discussion.
“Cricket diplomacy can be done in a positive and negative sense,” he said. “We should use the sport to foster better ties,” Musharraf said.

Re: The champ of democracy.. General Pervez Musharraf

Now, we have democratic government, but no democracy at root level(local gov)… :bummer:

Re: The champ of democracy.. General Pervez Musharraf

I guess by real democracy in the sense that he delegated powers to local level. Technically he still will be called a dictator though.

He is right when he says “elections is just the beginning of democracy”. Its for all of us to see and experience

:chai:

Re: The champ of democracy.. General Pervez Musharraf

Well you know when its said, "Practice what you preach"..

So yes he did introduce reforms for local bodies elections and successfully implemented. But anything that begins from the wrong intention can never end right. Once you make a coup, impose emergency, declare sorta martial-law, you can never revert to democracy. Period.
Time after time we've seen this. Ayub and Zia did the same. Especially Zia was supposed to hold elections in 90 days and leave but he left after 11 years and that also when the nature called. These dictators really think they can do wut they want and when they want. SMH

Re: The champ of democracy.. General Pervez Musharraf

^ I agree to that i.e practice what you preach.

but when no one practices what they preach, you have to make choice b/w bad and worst.

By no mean he was a champion of democracy or democratically elected leader but where rubber meets the road, people were better off in his era than now and irony is that we have not learned our lesson even now. NS got a clear majority, he could have set the record straight i.e. implement true democracy instead of hypocrisy so people like me could no longer have soft corner for any dictator.

Re: The champ of democracy.. General Pervez Musharraf

The suicide attacks started under his era.

Re: The champ of democracy.. General Pervez Musharraf

Because war in the region started in his era and beside, he is out of power since what? 7-8 years now. I think suicide attacks have stopped now? Drone attacks have stopped now?

Re: The champ of democracy.. General Pervez Musharraf

Actions taken during his era have direct consequences right now. He gave permission for drone strikes. He admitted that. He fed the Taliban weapons, money and everything else needed. His actions directly lead to the creation of the TTP.

And when you create a monster it doesn't change in a week or two. Its like power, he for 10 years built no power plants and did not fix the power sector issue. We had loadshedding then and even now. Back in 2006 it was 8 hours in Islamabad.

Re: The champ of democracy.. General Pervez Musharraf

You mean same drones about with PPP politicians told USA that we will keep on denouncing attacks in public but you can carry on drone attacks?

Re: The champ of democracy.. General Pervez Musharraf

Regarding Musharraf and drones: :chai:

Musharraf told a lie on drone attacks - thenews.com.pk

Musharraf told a lie on drone attacks

Amir MirTuesday, December 02, 2014
From Print Edition

**ISLAMABAD: General (R) Pervez Musharraf’s November 25, 2014 claim that he had allowed just one drone strike during his tenure is nothing more than a blatant white lie. In fact, his latest statement contradicts his April 12, 2013 confession in an interview with CNN that he had signed a secret deal with the Americans on drone strikes according to which the targets were only approved when there was little chance of collateral damage.
**
The secret deal over drone strikes was reached after Musharraf had requested the Americans to hunt down tribal warlord Commander Nek Muhammad. He was marked as an enemy of the state after he threatened to target Musharraf and his men ambushed the convoy of the then corps commander Karachi Lt Gen Ahsan Saleem Hayat [on June 10, 2004] and killed 12 people on the Clifton Bridge. Nek had claimed responsibility for the attack, saying Musharraf would be the next target. Six days after the Karachi attack, Nek Mohammad was killed in the first-ever US drone strike on Pakistani soil [on June 17 2004]. He was giving interview to the BBC radio on his satellite phone when his hideout near Wana in South Waziristan was located. A precision-guided missile hit the home of Sher Zaman Ashrafkhel around 9.45 pm in Dhok village of Wana, where Nek was hiding.

Nek subsequently received serious injuries and was rushed to a hospital in Wana where he expired at 2.30 am. While a military spokesman had claimed that it was a hundred percent Pakistani action with no US involvement, eye-witnesses were quoted by the media as saying the missile which killed Nek was actually fired from a plane which flew into the Wana area from Afghanistan and went back to Afghanistan after firing. International media also reported that Nek was actually killed by a missile fired from a CIA-run Predator. The manner in which Nek was killed may not have been imagined by many of his jehadi followers, and perhaps himself, mainly because none of the Pakistani militants had been hunted down through a drone attack in the past on the Pak-Afghan border and that too, by the Americans.

However, talking to the BBC in its programme Hard Talk, Musharraf claimed on November 25, 2014 that he had allowed only one American drone strike during his tenure. “I said yes only once, though there were approximately nine drone attacks during my tenure. I am only talking about one occasion - we did not have much time and there was evidence leading to a major terrorist group, so we gave permission for the strike,” he said in his interview to BBC’s Stephen Sackur in his famous programme Hard Talk. But while making this claim, Musharraf seemed to have forgotten his April 12, 2013 interview with CNN wherein he had clearly acknowledged having cleared several drone strikes inside the Pakistani territory which were carried out under a secret deal.

Musharraf stated in his CNN interview that his government had cleared missile attacks ‘only on very few occasions where the target was absolutely isolated and the drone strike had no chance of causing collateral damage’. “The drone strikes were discussed at the military and intelligence level and cleared only if there was no time for our own special operations task force and the military to act. That was…maybe two or three times only”. Sometimes, he said, “You couldn’t delay action. These ups and downs kept going. It was a very fluid situation, a vicious enemy…mountains, inaccessible areas.”

Pervez Musharraf then recalled that one of those killed by the drones was Nek Mohammad, a tribal warlord who was accused of harbouring al-Qaeda militants. But what he did not mention was the fact that his regime had signed a peace deal with Nek in April 2004 in South Waziristan despite the fact that the concerned political agent of the area had opposed the pact and refused to accompany the then corps commander Peshawar to Shakai area to attend the signing ceremony of the deal. Nek was killed two months later when he had violated the deal and reiterated his commitment to al-Qaeda and Taliban. Musharraf’s CNN interview also belied repeated claims by Pakistani officials that Islamabad never authorised drone strikes.

Musharraf’s confession followed American media claims that Pakistani officials were intimately involved in the US drone campaign in the country for years now. A US State Department official also defended the legality of drone strikes and said they are conducted only with the consent from the states involved. Hardly a week after Pervez Musharraf’s revelation, a newly published book ‘The Way of the Knife: The CIA, a Secret Army, and a War at the Ends of the Earth’, claimed that the CIA had made a deal with Musharraf which allowed the United States to begin its drone assassination programme in exchange for the killing of an enemy of the state of Pakistan - Nek Mohammad.

America’s Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Mark Mazzetti outlined in his book how Musharraf, who was resistant to allowing the CIA to begin killing targets within its borders, asked the CIA in 2004 to kill Nek Muhammad, in exchange for allowing the CIA to begin its drone killings programme in Pakistan. “As per the agreement, Pakistan would take responsibility for the death of Nek and the CIA would never be mentioned in official accounts of his killing. Pakistani officials had, for several years, balked at the idea of allowing the CIA predators to roam their skies. They considered drone flights a violation of sovereignty, and worried that they would invite further criticism of Musharraf as being Washington’s lackey”, claimed the award-winning journalist in his book. Subsequently, when a predator blew up Nek’s South Waziristan compound, killing him and several others, Pakistan took credit for the deaths.

Therefore, according to Mark Mazzetti’s book: “The Nek Muhammad deal paved the way for the CIA to change its focus from capturing terrorists to killing them, and helped transform an agency that began as a cold war espionage service into a paramilitary organisation. In secret negotiations, the terms of the bargain were set. Pakistani officials insisted that they be allowed to approve each drone strike, giving them tight control over the list of targets. And they insisted that drones fly only in narrow parts of the tribal areas - ensuring that they would not venture where Islamabad did not want the Americans going: Pakistan’s nuclear facilities. The two sides agreed that all drone flights in Pakistan would operate under the CIA’s covert action authority - meaning that the US would never acknowledge the missile strikes and that Pakistan would either take credit for the individual killings or remain silent”.

Earlier in 2010, Wiki Leaks made public a 2008 cable by former US ambassador to Islamabad, Ann Patterson, who recalled her meeting with former Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani in which the latter spoke of the issue of drone strikes, “As long as they (Americans) get the right people, we’ll protest in the National Assembly and then ignore it”. Similarly, in his book, ‘Magnificent Delusions’, Pakistan’s ex-ambassador to US Hussain Haqqani, who was involved in the Pak-US strategic dialogue, disclosed that it was Pakistan that requested the killing of TTP leader Baitullah Mehsud in August 2009. His successor, Hakeemullah Mehsud, was also killed in a drone attack in November 2013.

Therefore, Musharraf’s admission that Pakistan was in the know about US drone strikes during his rule only confirms what has been suspected for a long time, although his confession is in stark contrast to the state’s long-standing policy of denying any role in the drone war.

Re: The champ of democracy.. General Pervez Musharraf

Musharraf is a pathetic corrupt man.

The country is still suffering from the consequence of his rule.

A traitor who sold Pakistani's and Pakistan.

Re: The champ of democracy.. General Pervez Musharraf

I personally do not think Musharraf was a corrupt man. I think..he was rather a "military man". The politicians around him including chohudary brotheran have ruined his reputation by imposing emergency back in 2007.

Re: The champ of democracy.. General Pervez Musharraf

Seriously, who is he kidding by making such absurd statements. That notion of Sheeda talli, Chaudhry brothers, PCO or that stupid 99% referendum he conducted are laughable if that is is piss-ass attempt at being democratic.

Re: The champ of democracy.. General Pervez Musharraf

I am certain he have lost his mind.

Re: The champ of democracy.. General Pervez Musharraf

Well, after 18th amendment most of the powers were transferred to provinces & federal govt can't do anything at local level. So, there is not much NS can do...like what Mush did. Beside, in democracy you can't enforce things with force...something dictators can do fast. In democracy you have to build consensuses through debates & it doesn't always mean you will get what you want b/c everyone's opinion count.

Re: The champ of democracy.. General Pervez Musharraf

We all know that he was a dictator, but we should give credit where due. It was his government which freed up the media as well as introduced local government system (although it had some flaws) but it brought governance to the street level...why is that our so called democrats wary of local government system? His statement is true to some extent.

Re: The champ of democracy.. General Pervez Musharraf

Forget consensus building for change of structure, they are not even holding local body elections as per current law/rules/regulations which is the base of democracy. There is no WILL across party lines. No willingness shown.

Re: The champ of democracy.. General Pervez Musharraf

Isn't PML-n not responsible for punjab, PPP for sindh or PTI for KPK? Stop bailing them out!

Re: The champ of democracy.. General Pervez Musharraf

Musharraf abused the word democracy in the same way as Zia abused "Islami Nizam".. Both stayed for more or less a decade and left a disaster after themselves

Re: The champ of democracy.. General Pervez Musharraf

Ironically, the media genie was freed under a dictator's regime. To me this is Musharraf's lasting achievement, and his single biggest contribution to Pakistan's democracy.

Yes, he was also the first one to silence the free media when he couldn't take the heat, but don't tell me the so called democrats like Nawaz Sharif and Altaf Hussain had not done the same thing after him. Truth of the matter is that he unknowingly empowered the media so much that today it is impossible to suppress its voice no matter how hard the pseudo-democrats try.

In my view, the emergence of free media in Pakistan under Musharraf is akin to Gutenberg's printing press revolution.