Bring all the sources you want, I can bring 10 more to counter them. If you need a statician to tell you there a LOT more people of Pakistani origin in the US than in UK, then you need help. Seriously. Try taking a look at a world atlas, may help change your misconceptions.
A few people have mentioned density. That is another issue and it is a very valid point. However, some areas in the US like Devon in Chicago, Jackson heights in NY, areas in Houston etc are also pretty dense in the same way. I have yet to hear the sort of news coming from there which is now pretty common in similar areas in the UK. Heck, just look at Missisauga in Canada.
What I was wondering is why such a stark difference. In labor qualifications, school performances, crime etc. Starksy mentioned inherent racism, he may have a point. I didn't know it was that prevalent especially with desis being so common now. I haven't lived in the UK, maybe some UK guppies could comment.
So far, the GENERAL perception to the outsider is pretty much what hiccup said: "Most pakis are jahil and trouble making in the UK. Esp the young hoodlum wannabes".
Disclaimer for the small minded: Obviously my opinion doesn't apply to ALL british pakistanis. That would be a pretty dumb assumption.
What I think the difference is that UK immigration rules have been far more lenient than US. There was a time when people from sub-continent could just get a flight and land in UK without a prior visa, they were granted visa at the airport (landing), hence no requirement for being ‘educated’, ‘experienced in a job category’, whoever could get enough money to land did so … also England is a “welfare” country, so many just leech off… there are tonnes of examples where people would just sit home enjoy the welfare provided, or even worse would be working at some private store and still claim welfare…
Historically there was a big diversity in the background of ppl who have emigrated from Pakistan to UK as compared to those who emigrated to US.
Many people who moved to UK were ppl who were workers in mills and factories, did not come from educated families and would not be able to fit in even in large cities in Pakistan, let alone in the UK. The almost open border approach of past was also a big factor.
Now to be fair, in contrast, there are many accomplished professionals in the Uk of Pakistani background, doctors, engineers, professors, scientists etc and sadly they get sidelined by the ghetto part of the community.
I also noticed that most UK immigrants were lower middle and middle class. But similar classes of people have also made it to the US and become successful there. It’s kind of like the situation with African Americans in the US. There seems to be something that is holding them back, those reasons could be internal and external.
You would think that racism towards South Asians in general would be more prevalent in the US since our culture is totally alien to them. The British have ruled in the Indian sub continent, surely they are historically atleast a bit more familiar with our culture and society in general. We both love tea and cricket! In my experience I have found the American people to be a lot more open and accepting in general.
Many pakistani's emigrated from Pakistan to work in jobs that the indigenous population would not do - such as work long hours in mill factories. They were hard working cheap labour, who also faced a lot of racism making them close in on themselves. Little was done to develop their families or communities and when the mill factories closed down they were left in poverty. A combination of this poverty, poor housing, poor education, poor health polarisation of communities has produced a cohort of dissafected youngsters.
P.s. Baroness Uddin - Baroness is the title bestowed by the british government, Baroness Manzila Uddin is a member of the House of Lords.
off topic, but are you serious? It may be not be as decrepit as the UK social welfare system, but the US welfare system --medicaid and food stamps-- does prevent people from breaking out of poverty.
well it was the blacks who started it and got back what they deserved,
the uk pakistanis fight back, not like the the usa ones.
so if you say that the american pakistanis would have just sat back home with a cold beer while other pakistanis were getting beaten up on the streets, then they are just pussys.
There is something called the law. If everyone starts beating everyone else just because someone told them something you can say goodbye to sane society
How much does one get from “food stamps”? Do they pay your rent as well? I doubt that. I agree that there are people in US who are leeching off whatever little of “welfare” is available from govt., but I have yet to come across a desi doing that.
Aha, theres a difference there my friend! We may love cricket but we all support Pakistan while the gorai support England. This is a major flashpoint. We love our Afridi’s and Akhtar’s
But more to the point, regardless of British history in India you’d be amazed how ignorant and intolerent whites are towards asian culture. They do not understand it. Its ironic Either you do as they do or become an outcast. Pakistanis, being muslims, naturally don’t adopt the gora lifestyle and this lack of integration causes division and sows the seeds of conflict which leads many astray and into depravation. Racism is inherent (and mostly hidden) not just in Britain but throughout Europe.
Yes, they subsidize housing. In NY it’s called section-8. And one gets enough to pay for food to sruvive.
I was only refuting the “no free-loader system in the US” comment in your earlier post. Now, whether a desi leeches off of it or not is definitely a moot point. I cant speak for desis.
Sara: Technically speaking, medicaid is not welfare. But according to Cannon school of thought–and, i am an advocate of that–medicaid is a form of welfare. I am aware that only low income families are eligible for medicaid, which precludes it from being part of welfare (per welfare reform acts), but the gist of my post was to convey the message that medicaid, like welfare, prevents one from breaking out of the poverty trap.
You missed the forest because of the trees, sara.:o
Sadly what you say seems to be the case. However, racism is rarely an issue for South Asians in the US. Sure it is present in some places but on the whole I doubt there are major complaints. Perhaps this openness and acceptance of alien cultures is another one of the reasons for their success…
Either you do as they do or become an outcast. Pakistanis, being muslims, naturally don’t adopt the gora lifestyle and this lack of integration causes division and sows the seeds of conflict which leads many astray and into depravation. Racism is inherent (and mostly hidden) not just in Britain but throughout Europe.