Your going to question the Prophet's actions? Your going to seriously question him?
Anyways, please refer to my thread on Raf-ul-Yadain..
Umm Hafsa, dear sister, the Prophet didn't raise his hands except for takbeer, does that make it not sunnah?
Umm Hafsa, your a little confused aren't you? Everyone has evidences, but the Salafi's views are that whatever makes the more sense to them, they will accept, which is aboslutely wrong in Islam!
Which is why we have madhabs, so people have the right guidance.
It's ok Umm Hafsa, everyone have their personal opinions about certain groups, just like the Salafi groups have theirs about all the other groups/madhabs in Islam.
Tabhlighi Jamaat isn't a madhab nor is it a way of life, it's a Jamaat. Didn't the Prophet have his Jamaat????????? (the Sahabas)
Listen, I used to question the TJs, but then I said to myself I will go in the mosques and listen to their talks and spend time with them. Seriously it changed my whole view on things. We are not the judges, only Allah is the Judge!
Lot of people are confused out there, may Allah guide us all.
Superme, dear brother, no prayer changed. The Prophet used to pray in the early days with the raising of the hands, but later on his life, he only raised his hands during takbeer like we all do and that’s it. Both ways are good.
JazaKallah Khair bro for the sources. First of all, I would like to ask what is your Aqeedah? Do you believe that all Prophets were Human Beings and not Noor? I believe all Prophets were Human Beings. If you do not want to tell your Aqeedah here then you are welcome to PM me.
I think there was a reason behind raising of the hands in the early days. If some one with more knowledge share that information (reason behind raising of the hands) with us along with reference would be helpful indeed.
We are Muslims, there are blacksheeps in every community.
Alhamdulillah 85% of all Muslims follow madhabs. Numerous hadiths saying that follow the majority. Refer to my latest thread about following fiqh.
I do agree with you thoughts but get over it Barelvis, Deobandis let me tell you atleast they are 50 percent of the population of India, Pakistan and Bangladesh that consists of nearly 200 million. You say this are black sheep 20% of the community.
Get me the reference 85% follow madhabs or should i call blind belief.
Assalaam-o-Alekum. I think my friends have started getting personal now. Please, please, please.....NO CONFLICT! I personally totally agree with the post of Umm Hafsa. Sarkaar-e-Do Aalam, Muhammad-e-Mustufa, Ahmed-e-Mujtaba, Noor-im-min-Noor-e-Allah Sallallaho Alaihe Wasallam and his Sahaba-e-Karaam (RA) and the Taba' Tab'een are the ones who should be folllowed. BUT..... we are nobody to assign them status. It is only for Allah and none, I repeat, none beside Him.
salaams umm hafsa here im intrested in that tablighi jamaa’ah thing. please tell me more, what do they teach you guys… when you go on jamaah (be honest).. even if u say something like correcting salah, dua’s etc. mashaAllah thats very good, i know they bring back ppl on the deen, and i know some tablighi people and when i hear their talks they seem really like dey dont know the basics such as matters relating to aqeedah, pillars of tawheed, types of tawheed etc. listen i dont care about mathabs , i mean fine i agree in a sense i suppose.. i can see where you are coming from, i was against following mathabs too but im starting to some research on it now and inshaAllah Allah swt will guide me to what is right, right now this is what i think… nothing wrong with looking into the works of the four imams and taking from them because some of the imams were tabaeen and learnt from sahabahs and that their works were from quran and sunnah and their madthab was the quran and sunnah and that is what they most prob told us to follow too. and i dont believe in blind following
inshaAllah i think there are other much important duties, obligations and things in life than arguing over things like should we raise our hands before going into rukhu and sujood, basically the prophet SAW did this and i think he didnt too… so we can do both… but we shouldnt just stick to not doing it at all because we’re hanafi’s and hanafi’s dont do this… same wid things like.. women praying in a jamaah… there is no hadith that says that its makruh for woman to pray in jamaah so i dont know why hanafi’s think it is and so many hanafi masaajids have no area for women.. because their mathab does not allow for women to come to masjids… even though hadith clearly states do not forbid ur women from going to the masaajids.. and hz umar RA wife used to pray isha and fajr in the mosq and hz/umar didnt like this.. but he couldnt say anything because of the hadith
things like that, i dont like… u know stuff like strict following to ONE mathab
also i dont think these are things to fight and argue over, we are all muslims and in a time like we are in now we should be trying to unite and fight these evil kuffaars who are causing us to disunite, we continue to fight over things like mathabs but at the same time these evil kufars are killing, raping, torturing our people, bombing and raiding our lands.
we need to start studying our deen properly, read up on the concepts of al-walaa wal baraa. we must love muslims for the sake of allah and hate kaafirs for the sake of allah, we need to study all aspects of islam, and even if a salafi says something to u and its something from the quran and sunnah… then take it… dont ignore or leave it thinking oh its coming from a wahaabi/salafi, i think you may have a lot of misconceptions about these people you like to label as salafi… at the end of the day only one sect from the 73 are going to heaven… u need to look into the manhaj and aqeedah of that one saved sect… compare it to the aqeedah and manhaj of the tablighi jamaah and ask yourself some questions
**i have left you some links where you can read up things on aqeedah ** if you see something that is not from the quran and sunnah then just leave it… and if u can provide me some links to tablighi jamaah sites that would be really kind of you jhzaakallaah khair (im not anti mathab by the wway) www.islamicthinkers.com www.al-ghurabaa.co.uk www.ahya.org www.islamqa.com www.muwahhideen.com
hmmm i dont know... khair i say we sort some of these shia's out instead !! they have like the wackiest beliefs ever! look into their aqeedaha nd you'll be suprised that these people are still labelled as muslims
So you want to labell them as Kafir?
After that you will say look at brelvis,...they don't deserve to be called muslims....then deobandis etc.
So who is a muslim?
i didnt say anything abt deobandi's as for brewli's if dey do someting major shirk like grave worship and they know they shouldnt one can go through the preventions of takfeer and see if this person is a kaffir or not as for shia's their scholars are kaffirs no doubt about that, ahl us sunnah wal jamaah sheikhs have made takfeer on the shia scholars, and as for shia people... depends abt whether they ignorant or not
well hareem u tell me.. if u read stuff like people cursing hz abu bakr, umar , uthaman, saying all the sahabah's became kafir except haz ali and family, read up and hear stuff on people slandering the mother of the believers hz ayesha (RA) and know that people like to play mr muhadditheen pick and choose wen it comes to hadiths and label the ones that they dont like as weak etc. and then only take the quran and not sunnah wont u still wonder whether these people who do that are still muslims or not?
well hareem u tell me.. if u read stuff like people cursing hz abu bakr, umar , uthaman, saying all the sahabah's became kafir except haz ali and family, read up and hear stuff on people slandering the mother of the believers hz ayesha (RA) and know that people like to play mr muhadditheen pick and choose wen it comes to hadiths and label the ones that they dont like as weak etc. and then only take the quran and not sunnahwont u still wonder whether these people who do that are still muslims or not?
Do they say Allah is One and Muhammad (saw) is the Last Messenger of Allah?
If they say so then They're Muslim.
Who are we to judge them AS kAFIR.
hareem01 here is the catch, Let me tell you Moses, Jesus, peace be upon them.who wre they obviously Muslims right, they were in the fold of Islam. So someone who followed Moses and Jesus were obviously following the word of Allaah right. But those people got deviated then they became Jews and Christians. *
I think we got to open a new thread, if taking a Shahada someones becomes Muslim then I do agree with that, but look at the condition below.
**Tomorrow a hypotheticall situation a non-muslim takes a shahada.**The next week after he takes a shahada you find him praying in front of an Idol. Do you feel nice regarding this, what do you call that person then. This is the same person right who took the Shahada.*
Look at the history of Mushriks, they had Idols of Abraham, Ishmael may peace be upon them this was abolished. Surah 29 Ankabut, this is what the Mushriks would say. 60. And how many a creature carries not its [own] provision. Allah provides for it and for you And He is the Hearing, the Knowing.
61. If you asked them, “Who created the heavens and earth and subjected the sun and the **moon?” they would surely say, “Allah.” Then how are they deluded?**
The only difference then was they used to believe in Allaah and commit shirk.
The diffrence now is they say the shahada.
You think I feel nice by degrading them the ummah is innocent, but if we dont stop this we are into deep problem for our future Generations. Surah Al Imran 110. You are the best nation produced [as an example] for mankind. You enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong and believe in Allah. If only the People of the Scripture had believed, it would have been better for them. Among them are believers, but most of them are defiantly disobedient.
Read it a million times, above, only by doing good is no use. You have to even forbid someone doing wrong if you believe in Allaah.
first of all christians and jews don't believe that Prophet Muhammad(saw) is the Last Messenger of Allah but Shias do.
Mushriks do Idol worship but as far as i know Shias don't do idol worship.
Also I can post ayahs and ahadiths about muslims who call each other kafir or separate themselves from other muslims.
well hareem u tell me.. if u read stuff like people cursing hz abu bakr, umar , uthaman, saying all the sahabah's became kafir except haz ali and family, read up and hear stuff on people slandering the mother of the believers hz ayesha (RA) and know that people like to play mr muhadditheen pick and choose wen it comes to hadiths and label the ones that they dont like as weak etc. and then only take the quran and not sunnahwont u still wonder whether these people who do that are still muslims or not?
if shia scholars are kafir then why do the in saudi they include shia school of thought in thier annual ijmah.
Hareem01, go ahead and provide me let me see your knowlege of shirk.
There is no use of arguing otherwise.
Here I am not telling you they whethere they believed or did not the core point was they were deviated.
Do you think they are not deviated, if you feel so then you have big task to prove I will have to just quote from the books of Deobandis and there sayings.
The question is do they commit shirk yes or no. If they dont Allahamdullialaah.
all i know is that i have no authurity to call someone who believe in oneness of Allah and finality of His messenger kafir.
i'm asking you the thing which make shias mushrik.Do they ask or worship anyone than Allah or do they don't believe in the finality of Prophet Muhammad(saw).
It was narrated that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “May Allaah curse the Jews and the Christians, for they have taken the graves of their Prophets as places of worship.” (Saheeh, agreed upon. Al-Bukhaari, al-Janaa’iz, 1330; Muslim, al-Masaajid, 529).
It was narrated from ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) that Umm Salamah or Umm Habeebah told the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) about a church that they had seen in Abyssinia (Ethiopia) and the images that were inside it. He (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Those are people who, when a righteous slave or a righteous man among them died, they would build a place of worship over his grave and put those images in it. They are the most evil of creation before Allaah.” (Agreed upon; al-Bukhaari, al-Salaah, 434; Muslim, al-Masaajid, 528).
hareem what are the preventions of takfeer
what are the 7 conditions of the kalimah?
does commiting major shirk and major kufr take one outside the fold of islam?
does disbelieving in hadith mean someone is still a muslim
does rejecting an ayah or mocking it mean someone is stil muslim (same as with hadith)