The "bad" Madrassa Myth

I am sure next to nobody on the secularist extremist or Islam bashing side will mention this article ..so I figured I would :smiley:

The Madrassa Myth

By PETER BERGEN and SWATI PANDEY

Published: June 14, 2005

Washington

IT is one of the widespread assumptions of the war on terrorism that the Muslim religious schools known as madrassas, catering to families that are often poor, are graduating students who become terrorists. Last year, Secretary of State Colin L. Powell denounced madrassas in Pakistan and several other countries as breeding grounds for “fundamentalists and terrorists.” A year earlier, Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld had queried in a leaked memorandum, “Are we capturing, killing or deterring and dissuading more terrorists every day than the madrassas and the radical clerics are recruiting, training and deploying against us?”

While madrassas may breed fundamentalists who have learned to recite the Koran in Arabic by rote, such schools do not teach the technical or linguistic skills necessary to be an effective terrorist. Indeed, there is little or no evidence that madrassas produce terrorists capable of attacking the West. And as a matter of national security, the United States doesn’t need to worry about Muslim fundamentalists with whom we may disagree, but about terrorists who want to attack us.

We examined the educational backgrounds of 75 terrorists behind some of the most significant recent terrorist attacks against Westerners. We found that a majority of them are college-educated, often in technical subjects like engineering. In the four attacks for which the most complete information about the perpetrators’ educational levels is available - the World Trade Center bombing in 1993, the attacks on the American embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998, the 9/11 attacks, and the Bali bombings in 2002 - 53 percent of the terrorists had either attended college or had received a college degree. As a point of reference, only 52 percent of Americans have been to college. The terrorists in our study thus appear, on average, to be as well educated as many Americans.

The 1993 World Trade Center attack involved 12 men, all of whom had a college education. The 9/11 pilots, as well as the secondary planners identified by the 9/11 commission, all attended Western universities, a prestigious and elite endeavor for anyone from the Middle East. Indeed, the lead 9/11 pilot, Mohamed Atta, had a degree from a German university in, of all things, urban preservation, while the operational planner of 9/11, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, studied engineering in North Carolina. We also found that two-thirds of the 25 hijackers and planners involved in 9/11 had attended college.

Of the 75 terrorists we investigated, only nine had attended madrassas, and all of those played a role in one attack - the Bali bombing. Even in this instance, however, five college-educated “masterminds” - including two university lecturers - helped to shape the Bali plot.

Like the view that poverty drives terrorism - a notion that countless studies have debunked - the idea that madrassas are incubating the next generation of terrorists offers the soothing illusion that desperate, ignorant automatons are attacking us rather than college graduates, as is often the case. In fact, two of the terrorists in our study had doctorates from Western universities, and two others were working toward their Ph.D.

A World Bank-financed study that was published in April raises further doubts about the influence of madrassas in Pakistan, the country where the schools were thought to be the most influential and the most virulently anti-American. Contrary to the numbers cited in the report of the 9/11 commission, and to a blizzard of newspaper reports that 10 percent of Pakistani students study in madrassas, the study’s authors found that fewer than 1 percent do so. If correct, this estimate would suggest that there are far more American children being home-schooled than Pakistani boys attending madrassas.

While madrassas are an important issue in education and development in the Muslim world, they are not and should not be considered a threat to the United States. The tens of millions of dollars spent every year by the United States through the State Department, the Middle East Partnership Initiative, and the Agency for International Development to improve education and literacy in the Middle East and South Asia should be applauded as the development aid it is and not as the counterterrorism effort it cannot be.

Peter Bergen, the author of “Holy War Inc.,” is a fellow at the New America Foundation. Swati Pandey is a research associate there.

Re: The "bad" Madrassa Myth

On the contrary I did mention this article the day it was published but unfortunately the whole thread was deleted with one response. I disagree with Peter Bergen on this. What he is portraying is the terrorists that have attacked US or western interests, but when you look at the Taiban terrorists and what they did to the Hazara Shiites or other ethnic groups in Afghanistan it is one and the same thing. All he is saying is that Madrassa's, and its students are not a threat to US interests.

Re: The "bad" Madrassa Myth

The Taliban are terrorists Verizon? by what definition?

Re: The "bad" Madrassa Myth

Zakk dont disappoint me. I know you can do better than this. Or would you like me to call our mutual friend to knock some sense into you. Just recently I had a nice chat with his cousin and he told me that upto 6000 taliban went on a jihad from that region alone and all perished with one daisy cutter except the mullah that took them there, This incident has been discussed here beofre as well. Taliban (by definition may not be) but then again Islam by definition is a religion of peace ( I still have to see that being practiced) so definition dont mean much, it is the actions that speak. And speaking of actions taliban are nothing but terrorists and madrassas are the breeding grounds. Thanks to the saudis.

Re: The "bad" Madrassa Myth

Taliban were many things..fascists..cruel..intolerant..but again by what definition terrorists..and yes I do know about the 6000 people. The daisy cutter is a unique weapon.. the equivalent of a non radioactive nuke.

Re: The “bad” Madrassa Myth

http://www.hazara.net/

http://www.hazara.com/massacre/massacre.html
The terrorist talibans. Thanks to SK.

Re: The "bad" Madrassa Myth

Using that very broad definition of terrorist Verizon most nations in the world including the US are terrorists..terrorists by strict definition are not de facto rulers of a nation. They are groups of individuals operating an idealogy..

Re: The "bad" Madrassa Myth

What is the psychology of a terrorist? What makes him to incline towards terrorism?

I find reasons in the madrisa setup where Muslim children are compelled to learn Quran. Seeds are poured at that level. A child of 5-6 of age cannot understand the deepness of Quran, but some peculiar things against non-Muslims it easily picks up. That is dangerous.

Re: The “bad” Madrassa Myth

Zakk UN does not have a definition of a terrorist either. One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. US calls the Kashmiri fighters freedom fighter when dealing with pakistan and a crows flight away, in India, they call the very FF’s terrorists. That is the nature of FP. Back to terrorism, look at the right side of http://www.hazara.net/ and look at what the Pashtun Brothers (taliban) are doing. It is quite easy to define them as terrorists. You know what I’d rather call sunni Iraqi’s insurgents but when it comes to Taliban they are terrorists.
I am not talking about terrorism from a western perspective. I am wearing my Pakistani hat on and know for a fact that they are terrorists.

Here is the definition of a terrorist:
somebody who uses violence or the threat of violence, especially bombing, kidnapping, and assassination, to intimidate, often for political purposes.

Now tell me that Taliban doesnt engage in the activities.

Re: The "bad" Madrassa Myth

Verizon bhai...

In all your posts you seem like a man with a capabiltiy to grasp things solidly...But not very deeply...I have told you, authentic versions of news is what you need, otherwise you'll keep spewing what you'll be trained to spew...That makes for a very repetitive and brainwashed individual...

You need French and British independent sources of information...Do you remember the mass suffocation of prisoners in containers? Do you also remember the outcry and grief the world went into over the inhuman and airless massacre of 600 humans...

OK...So let's for a moment believe the western media and say that Taliban were wretched and inhuman people...

Did that justify a murder of an entire already beleaguered nation?

In your propagande textbooks, it is a great victory, but then, so was cleaning Jews from Germany...

You either stand for what's right, humane and moral or you agree with America's vision of human rights based on propaganda...

Verizon jee, men with the ability to see past the fog of lies are called visionaries, the rest are simply following the sound of mass manipulation...

Re: The "bad" Madrassa Myth

VErizon bhai..please read

A ticket ot paradise

and

In the hands of taliban

by Ivyon riddley

BTW i have first hand experiance with taliban.....and i found them great practising niswar wala muslims...just making an impression on taliban/mujahideen on the basis of some western report is so lame....

Re: The "bad" Madrassa Myth

Lajawab, Obviously you didnt bother to look at the two web links that I posted. Now all the BS that you spewed applies to you.
BTW I am reading a book on Taliban called Taliban writtenby an Afgan or a Pashtun so he aint close to being a westerner, my definition is quite watered down, his aint.

As far as reading french le monde or british tabloid called the guardian, why dont you read Jerusalem post or Al-Haratz, You will see the balance of news. right now you dont.

Re: The "bad" Madrassa Myth

Bao, were there any Biharis in the army of the Mujahideen or any Biharis in any Madrassas that you know of? Please let us know. Thanks.

In fact, let’s make it a bit more general question. Were there any Urdu Speaking (meaning Mohajirs) in the Army of Mujahideen? I know from my village alone (and there is Mohajir community there), all the deadbodies that came back from Afghanistan (or Kashmir) were Punjabis or Pathans. So may be you can tell us a little more.

Re: The "bad" Madrassa Myth

LOL I know two Karachiites that went on a jihad and were caught by the other idiots they cried and told this Afgan warlord and I kid you not
"Unlce hum ko chor daYn hum seh Ghalti hui heh... naaaa". I wonder what Unlce Dostum did, but they did make it back, I am sure the two niggers are now quite secularist by now.

Re: The "bad" Madrassa Myth

veri have u ever stepped a foot in karachi?

Re: The "bad" Madrassa Myth

I'd spit on Karachi. I'd bull doze that POS like Hafiz Assad bulldozed hama. Then I would rebuild Karachi into a megacity. Cleansed from MQM and other sectarian arseholes. Only secualrist, no hijabs and no beards.

Re: The “bad” Madrassa Myth

that doesnt answer my question…have u been to kollachi as yet?..:flower1:

Re: The "bad" Madrassa Myth

mAd-honey .... abbay wahan to bihari gee daar bohat tha....so many karachi walas...

two graduates from madrasatul islamia iba ....we were 3 chartered accountants.from jamia tul uloom icap...and plenty of darululoom dow medical mullahs...

veri zon.....jigger kabhi baba afridi ka nam pochna dostum bhai jan say.....there were so many heroics from some of them tha even arabs appreciated them...(it is very hard to match arab bravery )

jigger.....aaise baati kerni say pehlay aik pant rakh liya karo...aur ammi say poch liye karo...ye mummy daddy bachon ka kam nahin...jao KFC khao

Re: The “bad” Madrassa Myth

Yeah a couple of times.

Re: The “bad” Madrassa Myth

Bao yaar, you are telling me now they have Maddrassa that produce accountants and doctors too? you Biharis are very smart. The PUnjabis I knew who attended Maddrassa couldn’t even find their own butthole, let alone be doctors or accountants.

:jhanda: