The American Campaign to Suppress Islam

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rvikz: *
secularism and democracy benefits mulims in non-islamic world
since more muslims live in non-muslim countires than the other way
around. muslims are living in india,china and europe as minorities.
[/QUOTE]

If it’s not in my benefit to go Hajj because it costs too much, do I miss it? Because Islam says it is fard.

Benefit is not a criterion for Muslims, the Hukm Shara is. Secularism is kufr because it separates religion from politics, deen from duniya, and governance from personal worship. Islam is a political & spiritual aqeeda from where a system to govern all of life’s affairs arises. How to buy & sell, how to rule etc.

Secondly Democracy contradicts Islam; Democracy is a system where humans make the laws. In Islam the Khaleefah is restricted to ruling by sharia except in mubah issues.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by blackzero: *

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Kosser_M: *

If this is what you think then your understanding of the Islamic ruling system is incorrect

The Conflict Between the Democratic System and the Ruling System in Islam

The Democratic System The Ruling System In Islam:

  • democratic *
  • Its bases is made by humans.

  • islamic *

  • Its basis is taken from revelation from Allah.

** reply: I concede that the "sharia" is not the top legislation.

**
[/QUOTE]

What do you mean by this statement?

"I concede that the "sharia" is not the top legislation"

Kosser,

Thank you for posting that comparison between the Kalifah and democracy. No wonder Iranian students are demanding more democracy.

While I am not anti-Islam, the idea of a Kalifah is pretty hard to swallow. Pretty cool idea if you are one of the pious elite, but to me it sounds: elitist, discriminatory, totalitarian, repressive, stagnant, oh man I could go on forever. As Seminole says, it sounds pretty much like Lenin/Stalinism with a big old Islamic happy face on it.

Let the stonings and amputations begin!

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ohioguy: *
Kosser,

Thank you for posting that comparison between the Kalifah and democracy. No wonder Iranian students are demanding more democracy.

While I am not anti-Islam, the idea of a Kalifah is pretty hard to swallow. Pretty cool idea if you are one of the pious elite, but to me it sounds: elitist, discriminatory, totalitarian, repressive, stagnant, oh man I could go on forever. As Seminole says, it sounds pretty much like Lenin/Stalinism with a big old Islamic happy face on it.

Let the stonings and amputations begin!
[/QUOTE]

There is no Islamic State in the world today, not in Saudi, Iran, Afghanistan, and Pakistan or anywhere the khilafah was destroyed in 1924. It lasted 1400 years.

In the whole 1400 year history only approx 80 amputations were carried out, and very few stoning as well and crime was reduced to a minimum.

What is so "elitist, discriminatory, totalitarian, repressive, stagnant" about the Islamic State?

Kosser,

  1. The Judiciary system in Islam is a Sha''ria one

So Non-Muslims are subject to Muslim law?

  1. Under the Islamic ruling system, the foreign policy is tied with Jihad, conquest and spread of Islam.

Non-Muslims have no say in foreign policy?

  1. The Islamic ruling system does away with all nationalities, tribalistic bonds and races and melts them into Islam.

Sounds pretty totalitarian to me.

  1. The Khalifah is chosen for life as long as he is able, wise (Aqil) and not known for misconduct.

Elitist and Stagnant.

  1. It is not allowed to from parties which are not based on Islam as a doctrine and a way of life.

No dissent allowed.

  1. Islam demands the candidate to be male, Muslim, adult, free, and not known of misconduct and disobedience to Allah.

Discriminatory in the extreme.

  1. Consultation (Shura) is not a method of governing that contains major guidelines and details. Also it is not one of the ruling pillars. Rather, it is merely taking an opinion which is binding in some cases and not binding in others. However, Shura is a divine rule.

"Divine rule" by the ruling Islamic elite who decide how the law is implemented.

  1. Democracy emphasizes "compromise" solution.

Good, this is not totalitarian.

  1. Happiness in Islam is achieving the pleasure of Allah the Supreme.

So the minorities who do not believe in "Allah the Supreme", cannot have pleasure?

  1. In democracy majority rules. 18. In Islam, Sha'ria rules.

So a small ruling elite could dominate an area or region of the world?

All I have learned here is that you wish to convert the entire world to Islam, and have an unrepresentative form of government where minorities are powerless peons.

Sorry, I have to get back to work supressing the Kalifaites!

Salaam alaikum my dear brothers.

There are two types of battles. A physical attack or an ideological attack. Capitalism as an ideology destroyed Communism by showing its corruption intellectually(ideological attack). It gave ideas such as the four corrupt freedoms.
Communism opressed man in many ways from instance it said that people had no right to own anything even if it belonged to them. For example even their own childrens toys to the propertry they had bought. Communism said that no matter if you were a doctor or a street cleaner you would earn the same wage. This is oppression. Capitalism showed its flaws by pushing its western ideas of human rights, freedom, deomcracy. So America destroyed Communism an ideology via showing capitalism as an alternative to communism.
Communism is dead. Islam was also destroyed ideologically they could never defeat the armies of the muslims. So they started to give the muslims ideas such as Nationalism. this divided the muslims into thinking they were diferent from each other, Arab and Turkish muslims. They funded groups to call for nationalism. As a result over 55 Muslim countries with over 555 muslim leaders is hte result.This split the muslims into two camps. The end result was the destruction of the Khilafah system in 1924.

Capitalism destroyed Islam as an ideology that implements Islam comprehensively.

Abdali: Islam is powerful intellectually but today Islam is just in the mind and hearts of the muslims as well as the jewish grandfathers who wish it to return. For them it was the golden age for jews. As the Khilafah looked after their affairs with justice.

OldLahori : Islam is the only threat to Capistalim as way of life. This whole War on Terroism is a war on Islam. How many non-muslims have been arrested for being terroist. When Muslims in Palestine defend the only way they can from the oppression from the Israeli occuption via Martydom they are called terroists. But when Israeli army uses missiles, rocket launchers are lauched randiomly into muslim areas this is called defence. When Muslims fight in Kashmir against hindu aggrerssion and occuptation of muslim land where Islam was implemented it is called militancy and teroism. But when the Indian army kill civilian muslims, it is called fighting the militants.

Rvikz: Secularism and democracy is in no way for Islam. Secularism means to that Allah(swt) can only be refereed to in ritual aspects such as prayer,marriage,death etc. has no say in society. And you can follow man made law such as homosexuality, freemixing with women. Democracy is the way man implements laws based on his desires. For example Homosexuality was something disgusting five years ago but now you can not only be homosexual but you can be married as a homo.

This is an example of how the American campaign to suppress Islam has been successful by making it only a religion. To make sure Muslims do not call for Islam as an Ideology which mankind can live by and solve its problems.

minister ,muslims when minority demand seularism so can it be wrong
to treat muslims as equal citizens instead of forcing them to adapt
to majority religen. it works both ways and is neurtral system to
protect each one's unique faith.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ohioguy: *
Kosser,

Sorry, I have to get back to work supressing the Kalifaites!
[/QUOTE]

  1. The Judiciary system in Islam is a Sha''ria one

So Non-Muslims are subject to Muslim law?

Yes, Islam came for mankind to save mankind from the kufr darkness of capitalism.

  1. Under the Islamic ruling system, the foreign policy is tied with Jihad, conquest and spread of Islam.

Non-Muslims have no say in foreign policy?

*Do Muslims have a say in western foreign policy? *

  1. The Islamic ruling system does away with all nationalities, tribalistic bonds and races and melts them into Islam.

Sounds pretty totalitarian to me.

So racism, Nazi’s etc is ok with you is it?

  1. The Khalifah is chosen for life as long as he is able, wise (Aqil) and not known for misconduct.

Elitist and Stagnant.

The reason why they change rulers so fast in the west is they cant keep their trousers up.

  1. It is not allowed to from parties which are not based on Islam as a doctrine and a way of life.

No dissent allowed.

Yes, because Islam is the truth and can be proved.

  1. Islam demands the candidate to be male, Muslim, adult, free, and not known of misconduct and disobedience to Allah.

Discriminatory in the extreme.

Laws of the creator.

  1. Consultation (Shura) is not a method of governing that contains major guidelines and details. Also it is not one of the ruling pillars. Rather, it is merely taking an opinion which is binding in some cases and not binding in others. However, Shura is a divine rule.

"Divine rule" by the ruling Islamic elite who decide how the law is implemented.

  1. Democracy emphasizes "compromise" solution.

Good, this is not totalitarian.

Yes you can be a paedophile or a homo no problem your free!

  1. Happiness in Islam is achieving the pleasure of Allah the Supreme.

So the minorities who do not believe in "Allah the Supreme", cannot have pleasure?

Not as the Muslims have because they can’t be tranquil until they become Muslim because Islam is the truth it gives meaning to meaningless lives.

  1. In democracy majority rules. 18. In Islam, Sha'ria rules.

So a small ruling elite could dominate an area or region of the world?

Sharia is not a small ruling elite. (I think you should study the Islamic state)

All I have learned here is that you wish to convert the entire world to Islam, and have an unrepresentative form of government where minorities are powerless peons.

The world needs Islam to rescue it from the wharp minded people of capitalism.

Sorry, I have to get back to work supressing the Kalifaites!

No problem you go ahead. And truth always prevails over all falsehood

rvikz: Can you explain what you mean. Are u Muslim and from which country are u from?

The resentment of American colonialist foreign policy echoes across the Islamic world in all sections of society.

The Wall Street Journal (Sept. 14) published a survey of opinions of wealthy and privileged Muslims in the Gulf region (bankers, professionals, businessmen with close links to the U.S.). They expressed much the same views: resentment of the U.S. policies of supporting Israeli crimes and blocking the international consensus on a diplomatic settlement for many years while devastating Iraqi civilian society.

The fact that the US is hated for its colonialist foreign policy is even acknowledged by many Americans themselves.

Robert Bowman, bishop of the United Catholic Church in Melbourne Beach, Florida wrote, “We are the target of terrorists because, in much of the world, our government stands for dictatorship, bondage, and human exploitation. We are the target of terrorists because we are hated. And we are hated because our government has done hateful things.”

"The US virtually exterminated the indigenous population, conquered half of Mexico, intervened violently in the surrounding region, conquered Hawaii and the Philippines (killing hundreds of thousands of Filipinos), and in the past half century particularly, extended its resort to force throughout much of the world. The number of victims is colossal." was Professor Noam Chomsky’s reply in a Belgrade interview to the question of why America was hated.

Expanding further Justin Podur, journalist for Znet remarked “There is a long list of reasons why 'they' (Arabs, Muslims, West, South, and Central Asians) might have hated 'us' (North America, Europe) before September 11, 2001. These include but aren't limited to the sanctions in Iraq, the bombings in Sudan and Afghanistan in 1998, and unconditional support for the continuing Israeli occupation of Palestine. But since October 7 (when the US began bombing Afghanistan), 'we' have added quite a lot to the list.

As to why Arabs and Muslims should particularly loathe America, Stephen Zunes – Professor of politics at the University of San Francisco offers the following reasons:

U.S. support for Israeli occupation forces has created enormous resentment throughout the Middle East.

There has been an enormous humanitarian toll resulting from the U.S. policy toward Iraq.

The United States has been inconsistent in its enforcement of international law and UN Security Council resolutions.
Over the past 30 years, the U.S. has used its veto power to protect its ally Israel from censure more than all other members of the Security Council have used their veto power on all other issues combined.

The United States has supported autocratic regimes in the Middle East.
Increasing support for autocratic regimes such as Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Egypt and Morocco. Jordan for example, received large-scale U.S. support in the 1970s and 1980s despite widespread repression and authoritarian rule.

The U.S. promotion of a neo-liberal economic model in the Middle East has not benefited most people of the region.
Like much of the Third World, the United States has been pushing a neo-liberal economic model of development in the Middle East through such international financial institutions as the International Monetary Fund, the World Bank and the World Trade Organization. These have included cutbacks in social services, encouragement of foreign investment, lower tariffs, higher taxes, the elimination of subsidies for farmers and basic foodstuffs as well as ending protection for domestic industry.
While in some cases, this has led to an increase in the overall Gross National Product, it has dramatically increased inequality, with only a minority of the population benefiting. Given the strong social justice ethic in Islam, this growing disparity between the rich and the poor has been particularly offensive to Muslims, whose exposure to Western economic influence has been primarily through witnessing some of the crassest materialism and consumerism from U.S. imports enjoyed by the local elites.

The U.S. maintains an ongoing military presence in the Middle East.
With regards to this foreign military presence William Pfaff observes; “The violence of the shock is intensified when the foreigner establishes military bases and tries to shape an Islamic country’s policies. This has been Pentagon policy during the past decade, with regional commanders for all of the world’s major geographical zones and expansion of the U.S. worldwide base system.

The New York Times a few days ago wrote about the rising importance of ultraconservative or radical Islam in Saudi Arabia, and acknowledged that its growing influence has been directly connected to the presence of American troops in that country since 1990.

The United States now has extended its base in Kuwait to nearly a third of that state’s territory. There are new bases in the other Gulf monarchies.

The Afghanistan intervention has left American bases in that country, and in Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan. The war against terror has expanded American troop presence in Georgia and the Muslim southern Philippines. A long military occupation of Iraq is envisioned by Washington.

Every base conveys the contamination of “infidel” modernization, as well as the oppressive suggestion of foreign military occupation.

Washington remorselessly expands its military presence in the Islamic world in order to fight the anti-American terrorism that its presence causes. No one in the government seems to see a contradiction in this.”

America’s loathing in the world is self inflicted. A product of its values and foreign policy that emanate from its conviction in the ideology of capitalism. Thus whilst it follows capitalism it will continue on its present path regardless of the increasing world resentment. Only a change in its belief system or a clash with an opposing civilisation can alter this course.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by The Minister: *
rvikz: Can you explain what you mean. Are u Muslim and from which country are u from?
[/QUOTE]

He is a hindu from India.....

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Kosser_M: *
And truth always prevails over all falsehood
[/QUOTE]
You ought to stick to "copy and pastes" from khalifahkhalifah.com because this is the only quote in your reply to OG's post that made any sense. Your answers consist only of:
1. Mocking Western culture (which is as personal to those that live it as your culture/values are to you)
2. Verifying that your dream world consists of an antiquated, elitist, discriminatory, totalitarian, repressive and stagnant government.

Question to M_Kosser and others, re the link to "Ruling system in islam" comparison:

  1. how do you know its basis is taken from allah? wasn't that a human that told you?

  2. you say 'no kingship' but didn't the kaliphs have ultimate power to a) live very opulently in large well attended palaces b) maintain armies using state funds c) levy & collect taxes and d) wield ultimate judgement and authority? Sounds like a king to me! how are you defining kings? (or is the only difference in your mind is inheritance?)

  3. the 3rd row of comparison is plain bull. you mean there's no army in democracy? no governors? no judges? no administrative system? The only two things not in a democracy are the Amir of Jihads and the kalifa (thank God)

BTW as someone pointed out you forgot the Executive branch

  1. row #5 "judiciary is a civil one" again shows ignorance - have you heard of criminal vs civil suits? find the bozo that wrote this comparison and buy him or her a newspaper

  2. row #6 is factually incorrect. I live in a democracy and I don't and don't have to worship people. I worship our Gods.

Look I'm laughing too much reading the comparison - for the sake of islam I hope what you're claiming as islam and sharia is untrue.

BTW how do you dismiss kalifa? who does it ? who decides he or she is no longer wise?

Kosser,

"Yes, Islam came for mankind to save mankind from the kufr darkness of capitalism."

Oh, so YOU have come to save me from myself. How nice of you.

"Do Muslims have a say in western foreign policy? "

Yes! to the extent they work effectively to discuss issues, fund candidates, get out the vote at your Mosque, you can participate fully in democracy. The description of Islamic Rule as you have put it forward is one of total domination of a people and their culture. This is extremeism.

"So racism, Nazi’s etc is ok with you is it?"

Huh? Where the heck did you get this?

"Yes, because Islam is the truth and can be proved. "

OK, prove it.....

"Yes you can be a paedophile or a homo no problem your free!"

Hmmm, seems to me that there were LOTS of occurances of homosexuality in Afghanistan after the fall of the Taliban. Do not mistake repression for cure....

"Not as the Muslims have because they can’t be tranquil until they become Muslim because Islam is the truth it gives meaning to meaningless lives."

So you are better than everyone else? I'm not that impressed so far....

Sounds like you need to move forward from the 6th century. The modern world is full of good and evil. Humans have choices to be good or evil each and every day. Taking a system of Relgion/Rule/ and Law and ramming it down the throats of the people you would rule is not acceptable. The people you purport to rule will rise up against you and your rigid sense of authoritarian rule and they will abandon the good in Islam because of the ambition of a few. At worst, the people you hope to educate and rule will flee your iron rule for the freedoms that humans crave. But religion is best, both yours and mine when it is freely chosen and fair and just. Simply because the Kaliphate existed at one time in the world's history does not mean that it was successful, or it would have become dominant in it's own time.....

The khilafah was a success

if it was not then it would not have existed for 1400 years how long has capitalism been around 100 or 200 years you think capitalism will be around for 1400 years please don`t make us laugh.

Even in the westerners are protesting on there streets at every given opportunity even just flicking through the tv station in italy people are about to cause riots over the Fiat car company and more downsizing!

Capiatlism has caused more wars and genocide in just the last 80 years than any religious war could compete with!

The war on iraq is about oil every person with a working brain cell knows this. North korea exposed the americans clearly with this we have WMD`s Iraq has none or none found so far so it is again about corrporate greed and oil!

The americans are having bases in all muslim countries this is clear sign they cannot trust there own puppet rulers to prevent the eventual rise of the islamic state which no matter what the capitalists try will happen!

where is kalifa if it is still around after 1400 years?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ohioguy: *
Kosser,

[/QUOTE]

"Yes, Islam came for mankind to save mankind from the kufr darkness of capitalism."

Oh, so YOU have come to save me from myself. How nice of you.

"Do Muslims have a say in western foreign policy? "

Yes! to the extent they work effectively to discuss issues, fund candidates, get out the vote at your Mosque, you can participate fully in democracy. The description of Islamic Rule as you have put it forward is one of total domination of a people and their culture. This is extremeism.

Stick to the topic, Can a Muslim make a decision to not attack a Muslim country or not to colonialise it? I think not, this is foreign policy.

"So racism, Nazi’s etc is ok with you is it?"

Huh? Where the heck did you get this?

Again stick to the topic, & why did you remove the title? Because your answer does not correspond with the Question.

"Yes, because Islam is the truth and can be proved. "

OK, prove it.....

Before I prove Islam, you have to prove what you believe in & your not doing a good job of it are you?? Ok I’ll save you the embarrassment.

"Yes you can be a paedophile or a homo no problem your free!"

Hmmm, seems to me that there were LOTS of occurances of homosexuality in Afghanistan after the fall of the Taliban. Do not mistake repression for cure....

Afghanistan who made that an Islamic state? The spread of the filthy concept of freedom is the cause of that.

"Not as the Muslims have because they can’t be tranquil until they become Muslim because Islam is the truth it gives meaning to meaningless lives."

So you are better than everyone else? I'm not that impressed so far....

Why, thank you.

KOsser: Will there be slavery under the Khalifah

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Chaltahai: *
KOsser: Will there be slavery under the Khalifah
[/QUOTE]

No

Wasn't there slavery under the previous supposed perfect systems?

Why change?