The 4th Calif - Ali Karam Allah Wajho - Sunni Only

Re: The 4th Calif - Ali Karam Allah Wajho - Sunni Only

Mughal dude… your logic is to illogical… we are talking about Prophet P.B.U.H. he can do miracles he is sardar-e-Ambiya… when other Prophet’s can do it why can’t he… oh unless you want to use an excuse…more like a lame excuse… what you are saying is what you have heard.. how about giving references to your claim… and trust me buddy when it comes to Prophethood and knowing the miracles other Prophet has done… it would be dumb to apply your logics…

Re: The 4th Calif - Ali Karam Allah Wajho - Sunni Only

Exaggerations… lol dude you always accuse shias for exxagerating Hazrat Ali A.S.. but when i asked you … you had no answer… where do we exxagerate.. Hazrat Ali.. what is his actual rank.. please tell me from which we exxagerate… i mean please do.. all you had to say was oh I have this and that…lol

Do we take him as God now do we???

I would really love to hear from you atleast once what is his rank from which we exxagerate him???

Re: The 4th Calif - Ali Karam Allah Wajho - Sunni Only

Indeed, beautifully quoted. Thanx for sharing. :slight_smile:

Waiting for more replys!

Re: The 4th Calif - Ali Karam Allah Wajho - Sunni Only

Some of the Raazvi's forgot to mention that they think he was divine....

Re: The 4th Calif - Ali Karam Allah Wajho - Sunni Only

I would like to thank brother** Zero1 ** from myself and on behalf of all others for initiating this ‘beautiful’ thread which has given a very welcome opportunity to the Sunnis on this board to confirm and show their profound love and respect for Hz. Ali ibn Talib [Karam Allah wajhu]. May Allah (swt) reward you amply

When the Blessed Prophet (saw) arrived in Madinah, one of the first tasks he did was to pair each Muhajir [People of Makkah who had emigrated to Madinah for the sake of Islam abandoning all their worldly possessions there] with the Ansar [People of Madinah who had accepted Islam] as blood brothers.

Each one of Ansar halved his property or whatever they had and gave it to their Muhajir brother. The Blessed Prophet (saw) had paired each of the Muhajir with his Ansari ‘brother’ and only Hz. Ali (ra) had been left out.

Above was just the background and I got the following from the Net.

"In overflowing tears, Imam Ali (may Allah have mercy upon him) approached the Prophet (pbuh) until he was an arms length away.

He said while wiping away his tears with the tip of his clothes: "O Prophet of Allah, you have paired off your companions as blood brothers, but you still have not paired me with anyone."

The Prophet (pbuh) smiled, and sat Ali beside him. He put his arms around Ali and embraced him kindly and whispered: "You are my brother in life and in the hereafter."

The Prophet then announced this loudly to rows of crowded people: "Oh People, Ali is my brother, Ali is my brother!""

Source: Translated from "100 Stories from the Life of Ali Bin Abi Taleb" by Muhammad Sedeeq Al Minshawi, Dar Al Fadeela Publishing, 2002.

It is true that only a true believer will have love for Hz. Ali (ra), and none but a hypocrite would nurse grudge against him, I must make the following point; the blessed Prophet (saw) has warned us through none other than Hz. Ali (ra) that those having excessive love for him [Hz. Ali (ra)] will be ruined. And this narration is in the Shia and Sunni books.

Imam Ali bin Abu Talib (r.a.) said: "The Messenger of Allah called me and told me: 'You are alike with Jesus, Jews hated him till they slandered his mother, and Christians loved him till they put him in the position that is not for him.' With regard to me, two categories of people will be ruined, namely he who loves me too much and the love takes him away from rightfulness, and he who hates me too much and the hatred takes him away from rightfulness. Verily, I am not a prophet, and there is nothing revealed to me. But I work with the Book of Allah and the Sunnah of his Prophet (pbuh) as much as I can. So whatever I have asked you in regard of obeying Allah, it is your duty to obey me whether you like it or not." [Imam Ahmad]

……………With regard to me, two categories of people will be ruined, namely he who loves me too much and the love takes him away from rightfulness, and he who hates me too much and the hatred takes him away from rightfulness. The best man with regard to me is he who is on the middle course. So be with him and be with the great majority (of Muslims) because Allah's hand (of protection) is on keeping unity. You should beware of division because the one isolated from the group is (a prey) to Satan just as the one isolated from the flock of sheep is (a prey) to the wolf…………….Nahjul Balagha 126

I am sorry if the above somehow 'sours' the mood of some; that is not my attention.

Re: The 4th Calif - Ali Karam Allah Wajho - Sunni Only

One more.........
Sayyedna Ali was a Scholar. When Hypocrites asked questions, He answered them so well.
Like when he was about to offer prayer, a man came and asked,"Ears of which animals are outside and which are inside or hidden or not visible?"

The answer could be so long. but he beautifully answered in a single line and said," Which animals give birth to their child, their ears are outside and visible. And which animals lay eggs, their ears are not visible and are hidden."

Wow what a knowledge.

Re: The 4th Calif - Ali Karam Allah Wajho - Sunni Only

Zer01 - Sorry yaar, I may not be able to contribute much as due to other duties ... but you are right books are full of traditions about him :)

The one you quoted --

**Hadīth No. 46

وعن عمر رضي الله عنه وقد جاءه أعرابيان يختصمان, فقال لعلي رضي الله عنه: إقض بينهما يا أبا الحسن! فقضى علي رضي الله عنه, فقال أحدهما: هذا يقضي بيننا؟ فوثب إليه عمر رضي الله عنه وأخذ بتلبيبه, وقال: ويحك! ما تدري من هذا؟ هذا مولاي ومولى كل مؤمن, ومن لم يكن مولاه فليس بمؤمن.

“It is narrated by ‘Umar (ra) that two Bedouins came to him disputing with each other. He said to ‘Alī (ra) : O Abū Hasan: decide between these two. So he decided between them (and settled their dispute). One of them said: Is he the only one left to decide between us? (At this) ‘Umar (ra) moved towards him and caught him by his collar and said: May you be dead! Do you know who he is? He is my master and the master of every believer (and) one who does not acknowledge him as his master is not a believer.”[6]**

It is quite new for me, jazak allah for sharing.

You may or may not know that Among sufi saints and Aolia allah (those people who Loved Allah and his creatures and Allah loved them) their spiritual lineage starts from Hazrat Ali karam Allah wajhu. *Ali (ra) is the first Wali allah *

Ever heard the famous line ....

Dama dam mast Qalandar, Ali da pehla number

Although the first part is just a rhyme but the second part ( “Ali is Number 1” )The meaning is explained in two ways among sunnies

  1. Hazrat Ali is the first Male to accept Islam and first helper of Prophet (pbuh) , when he started preaching Islam

  2. Ali is the First Wali Allah (the person who is Allah’s close friend, due to his/ her devotion )
    Wali Allah are those people who have absolute faith in Allah and they treat fellow beings with love and respect) And he is considered by saints the leader (Imam) and teacher of all Aolia Allah. ( in tasa'waf ). And it is common knowledge. If you ever happen to visit tomb of any saint or read book on tasawaf, then you will see that the Hazrat Ali's name is on the top of hierarchy.

This is only the one facet of multi dimensional personality of Hazrat Ali (ra), His wisdom, bravery and love of prophet need separate books

A little story read some time ago, in this regard :)


**Zainab(ra) was the daughter of Imam Ali bin Abi Talib (ra). She was a sister of Imam Hassan (ra) and Imam Hussein (ra) She was present at the battle of Karbala. When her brother Imam Hussein (ra) was killed, she was taken prisoner. She was the spokesman for all the prisoners. She gave an excellent speech. Her speech is very famous upto now. So is Zainab famous, for her divine virtues which are a beacon of light for all muslim women.

Once when Zainab was a very young girl she went to her father Ali and said: "'Oh father, do you love me?"

"Certainly, my darling, I do love you", replied the father.

Again Zainab asked: "Do you also love Allah?"

"Of course, I do love Allah, my child", replied the father.

Zainab was puzzled with the reply. She asked again:

"Oh father, how it is possible to have two loves in one heart?"

Ali was pleased with the question. He smiled and replied:

"Dear child, I love you because it is Allah's command to love one's children. In loving you I love God."**


Re: The 4th Calif - Ali Karam Allah Wajho - Sunni Only

^ very touching indeed! JazakAllah brother.

I was waiting for more sunni guppies to take part in this thread but seems they dont have any thing else to add. Or perhaps they dont even know about the traditions burried in the books, which the molvis don't tell to common people. I attended a conference last year and remember this one sunni scholer who was talking about the virtues of Ali (as) and Ahle-Bait (as) and he kept on repeating, "Kiya kabhee kissi molvee nay apko yeah batain bataaiee hain?" And I remember how they were amazed and how they admitted before this scholer at the end of the conference that they really never heard such traditions in life before. Anyways thank you all for your contributions agian.

I still wonder what happend to gupguppy. Not a single word from him. Perhaps he is more intended to reject every single tradition on the virtues of Ali (as) instead of posting any here. But what ever, Saza and Jaza is with Allah (swt) only.

I will be bumping this thread once in a while to give other sunni guppies the opportunity to take part in it. (or perhaps mods can make it stiky, just a suggestion)

Thanx all for your participations. :)

Re: The 4th Calif - Ali Karam Allah Wajho - Sunni Only

I am honoured that you so desperately want and value my input

But yes, i reject every single weak and spurious tradition, whether about Ali (r) or Abu Bakr (r) or anyone else… unlike you who seems to have based his whole religion on such rejected reports…

and unlike you i don’t have anything against the Prophet (saw)'s companions, least of all Ali (Allah be well pleased with him)… but what i do reject is spoon feeding copy-and-paste charlatans who have nothing better to do than fill these boards with unconfirmed reports they haven’t even read and who seem to spend most of their waking hours dreaming up new ways to condemn the Prophet (saw)'s companions and wives

Re: The 4th Calif - Ali Karam Allah Wajho - Sunni Only

I see there are some new members active in religion section. May be some of them would like to add some comments. :)

Re: The 4th Calif - Ali Karam Allah Wajho - Sunni Only

again up for same reason. :)

Re: The 4th Calif - Ali Karam Allah Wajho - Sunni Only

Sunnis love and admire Hazrat Ali and his family as well as family of the prophet (all wives) unlike Shias who openly curse, ridicule, mock and insult wives and important sahaba and friends of the Prophet. And sadly, their "hadith and holy" books preach such bigotry.

Re: The 4th Calif - Ali Karam Allah Wajho - Sunni Only

^and what does it has to do with the threads topic. Please add something regarding to main topic. thx :)

Mods remove the above thread.

Re: The 4th Calif - Ali Karam Allah Wajho - Sunni Only

you may have come across shaq-e-Kaaba; the crack in the wall of Kaaba, its the same place where the mother of Ali bin Abi Talib entered.

Re: The 4th Calif - Ali Karam Allah Wajho - Sunni Only

WRONG.

He never entered Islam; he was never a mushrik to begin with, hence he was always a muslim. The only person after Rasoolallah (sas) to have never prostrated in front of the idols.

True that.

The same goes for the rest of the Companions (rah) too.

As the Quranic verse goes, "only a disbeliever will be enraged with the companions" Hence it is our belief that who ever is enraged with the sahaabas is a kaafir, period.

:)

Re: The 4th Calif - Ali Karam Allah Wajho - Sunni Only

Excelent put brother. Since a lot of people are not aware of this fact I would request you to shed some more light on it. thx :)

Re: The 4th Calif - Ali Karam Allah Wajho - Sunni Only

Not a teen ager but a child, probably 10 years old.
Moreover he was adopted by Rasoolullah sallAllahu 'alayhe wasallam since he was a baby, and his other brother Ja’far r.a was adopted by 'Abbas r.a (Prophet’s uncle).
The point to be noted is that a child who is depending upon Muhammad sallAllahu 'alayhe wasallam as Muhammad s.a.w is his guardian, Muhammad s.a.w invites the child to Islam.
What you think a child who depends upon a person for food and living can say no to this invitation?
Well, I am not guessing about how 'Ali r.a accepted Islam but I only want to clarify that the Islam of a small boy (10 years old or so) is not as appreciable as the Islam of a grown up and mature man (like Abu Bakr Siddique radhiyAllahu 'anhu).

By mentioning this I only mean that the way shias make 'Ali radhiyAllahu ‘anhu superior to every Sahabi and every Prophet (as shias’ Imams are higher than all Prophets), is simply absurd and baseless.

This narration is in Tirmidhi and Tirmidhi himself call it ghareeb and munkar.

Ibn Jauzi and Siraj-al-Qazweeni declare this as fabricated (maudhu).

If you examine the chains of this narration you will find shias (of kufa especially) in it which means this is a shia propaganda, moreover how come this narration be authentic, when the Book of Allah doesn’t support it.

If Hadhrat 'Ali radhiyAllahu 'anhu was really so knowledgable that his rank was after Muhammadur Rasoolullah sallAllahu 'alayhe wasallam then such an 'aalim must be mentioned in Quran, as we find our Prophet sallAllahu’alayhe wasallam in the Book of Allah.
Rather you won’t find a single verse of Quran in praise of Hadhrat 'Ali radhiyAllahu 'anhu.

This is a nonsense belief of shias based upon fabricated awkward stories.

Another lie, not proven through any sahih narration.

This is a Tabarra of shias upon Muhammad sallAllahu 'alayhe wasallam. The Ghazwah of Khaiber was led by the Prophet, off course he was the Conqueror of Khaiber.
The place of Khaiber consisted of many forts, 'Ali radhiyAllahu 'anhu conquered only the last one.
Moreover in all narrations about Khaiber, we read that Rasoolullah sallAllahu 'alayhe wasallam gave 'Ali radhiyAllahu 'anhu the Rayah (which is the small flag), we nowhere read the word **'Alam **(Big Flag) which must be held by other Sahabah.

Re: The 4th Calif - Ali Karam Allah Wajho - Sunni Only

Did Allah grant Succession to 'Ali **radhiyAllahu 'anhu?**

Since Allah didn’t grant khilafat to Imam Ali after the demise of Muhammad sallAllahu alayhe wasallam and after the death of Abu Bakr and Umar radhiyAllahu 'anhum, even his khilafat couldn’t be estabslished after ‘Uthman radhiyAllahu 'anhu, this shows that khilafat was not for ‘Ali radhiyAllahu 'anhu, it was not destined for him by Allah.
Not only Ali radhiyAllahu 'anhu but for all the people from Hasan radhiyAllahu 'anhu to the Alleged Mahdi, no one ever succeeded to achieve khilafat.

Allah didn't grant 'Ali radhiyAllahu 'anhu with Khilafat

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 87, Number 170:

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:

A man came to Allah's Apostle and said, "I saw in a dream, a cloud having shade. Butter and honey were dropping from it and I saw the people gathering it in their hands, some gathering much and some a little. And behold, there was a rope extending from the earth to the sky, and I saw that you (the Prophet) held it and went up, and then another man held it and went up and (after that) another (third) held it and went up, and then after another (fourth) man held it, but it broke and then got connected again." Abu Bakr said, "O Allah's Apostle! Let my father be sacrificed for you! Allow me to interpret this dream." The Prophet said to him, "Interpret it." Abu Bakr said, "The cloud with shade symbolizes Islam, and the butter and honey dropping from it, symbolizes the Quran, its sweetness dropping and some people learning much of the Qur'an and some a little. The rope which is extended from the sky to the earth is the Truth which you (the Prophet) are following. You follow it and Allah will raise you high with it, and then another man will follow it and will rise up with it and another person will follow it and then another man will follow it but it will break and then it will be connected for him and he will rise up with it. O Allah's Apostle! Let my father be sacrificed for you! Am I right or wrong?" The Prophet replied, "You are right in some of it and wrong in some." Abu Bakr said, "O Allah's Prophet! By Allah, you must tell me in what I was wrong." The Prophet said, "Do not swear."

Now view this hadith from Sahih Muslim and Sunan-e-Abi Daud:

Hadhrat Abu Hurayrah radhiyAllahu 'anhu states that
a man came in the service of Rasoolullah sallAllahu 'alayhi wasallam and said, ‘Ya Rasoolullah sallAllahu 'alayhi wasallam I have had a dream at night that
There is a shed from which butter (ghee) and honey is dropping. I saw people were looting it with their hands full of it. Some collected lots of butter and honey from it and some collected less.
Then I saw a rope hanging from the sky to earth and I saw ya Rasoolullah sallAllahu 'alayhi wasallam that you held the rope and went up, then another person came, he held the rope and he also climbed up, afterward a thrid person appeared and he held the rope and he also went up. Then a fourth person came, he held the rope but it (the rope) broke from the middle, the rope then connected on its own and the man went up, and the rope was lifted up’.
Hadhrat Abu Bakr radhiyAllahu 'anhu asked, ‘Ya Rasoolullah sallAllahu 'alayhi wasallam grant me the permission to interpret this. He (sallAllahu 'alayhi wasallam) allowed him for that, he said:
The shed means Islam and the butter and honey dropping from it means the softness and sweetness of Quran. Some people learnt more (from) Quran and some less.
The rope which is hanging from the sky to earth means Truth (huq) on which you are standing, when Allah lifts you up from this world then another man after you will hold it, but then he also will leave this world, then another man will control the matters but he as well will leave this world, afterward a third person will hold it but he will leave this world too, then a fourth person will hold it but the rope will break and then automatically it will be connected and the man will also go up.
After this Hadhrat Abu Bakr radhiyAllahu 'anhu asked, ‘Ya Rasoolullah sallAllahu 'alayhi wasallam, have I interpretted correctly?, he (sallAllahu 'alayhi wasallam) said, ‘a part is correct and some of it is wrong’, on which Hadhrat Abu Bakr asked, ‘Ya Rasoolullah sallAllahu 'alayhi wasallam, by Allah you inform me where I have mistakened?’, he (sallAllahu 'alayhi wasallam) said, ‘Don’t swear’.

(Abu Daud, volume 2, page 288)

Another hadith from Bukhari and Muslim be viewd:

Hadhrat 'Abdullah bin 'Umar radhiyAllahu 'anhu states:
'We i.e Companions, in the leadership of Rasoolullah sallAllahu alayhi wasallam used to say to each other that after Rasoolullah sallAllahu alayhi wasallam, Abu Bakr is the best (excellent), then 'Umar and then is 'Uthman. And after them we didn't regard anyone else superior (excellent) to another'.

One more narration from Abu Daud:

Hadhrat Jabir bin Abdullah states that one day Rasoolullah sallAllahu 'alayhi wasallam said, ‘I saw in my dream that a pious man was weighed with Abu Bakr, then Abu Bakr was weighed with Umar, then Umar was weighed with Uthman'.
Hadhrat Jabir says when we came out from the service of Rasoolullah sallAllahu 'alayhi wasallam, we agreed on this that the pious man means Rasoolullah sallAllahu 'alayhi wasallam himself and that they were weighed as one with the other shows the rule which they will be given on this task which has been given to Rasoolullah sallAllahu 'alayhi wasallam to be sent (to us).

The number of such narrations is so big in Abu Daud that they reach the level of tawatur. Anyone who is interested should read Hadhrat Shah Waliullah’s Azaalat-al-Khafa.

But Abu Daud, with a Sahih Sanad, has narrated one narration which is decisive, and Abu Daud has ended the description of Caliphs at this narration. Which clearly shows that the same is the conclusion of Imam Abu Daud. The matter of this narration goes like this:

Hadhrat Samrah bin Jundub radhiyAllahu 'anhu states that a man said to Rasoolullah sallAllahu 'alayhi wasallam, ‘Ya Rasoolullah sallAllahu 'alayhi wasallam, I saw in my dream that a bucket was hanged from the sky, Abu Bakr held both the edges of bucket and drank some water from it, but there was a weakness in his drinking (weakness means small period of caliphate), then Umar held both the edges of bucket and drank some water from it, then Uthman came and he also drank to his fill, afterward Ali came and he held the wood of bucket, but the bucket with a jerk dropped from his hand and some drops of water from the bucket sprinkled on him'.

(Abu Daud, volume 2, page 289)

Keeping in view these narrations, Hadhrat Shah Waliullah issued this verdict that
Hadhrat Ali radhiyAllahu 'anhu was not a Caliph, because he couldn’t get hold of the administration of State, and under his control only one city of Kufah was left.

The Decision of Allah goes against Shias’ Claims

وَعَدَ اللَّهُ الَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ مِنْكُمْ وَعَمِلُواْ الصَّـلِحَاتِ لَيَسْتَخْلِفَنَّهُمْ فِى الاٌّرْضِ كَمَا اسْتَخْلَفَ الَّذِينَ مِن قَبْلِهِمْ وَلَيُمَكِّنَنَّ لَهُمْ دِينَهُمُ الَّذِى ارْتَضَى لَهُمْ وَلَيُبَدِّلَنَّهُمْ مِّن بَعْدِ خَوْفِهِمْ أَمْناً يَعْبُدُونَنِى لاَ يُشْرِكُونَ بِى شَيْئاً وَمَن كَفَرَ بَعْدَ ذلِكَ فَأُوْلَـئِكَ هُمُ الْفَـسِقُونَ ]

Allah has promised those among you who believe and do righteous good deeds, that He will certainly grant them succession in the land, as He granted it to those before them, and that He will grant them the authority to practise their religion which He has chosen for them. And He will surely give them in exchange a safe security after their fear if they worship Me and do not associate anything with Me. But whoever disbelieved after this, they are the rebellious.

(An-Nur:55)

  1. And Allah didn’t grant Saiyidina ‘Ali radhiyAllahu 'anhu succession in the land.

  2. Saiyidina ‘Ali radhiyAllahu 'anhu couldn’t have Authority over Ummah as Ummah was divided and his Khilafat kept on diminishing till it became limited to Kufah only.

  3. The period of Saiyidina Ali radhiyAllahu 'anhu was not that of safe security, but of chaos, fitnah and civil war. 100,000 people were killed in a number of battles. People lived in the state of Fear.

  4. This Fear, Fitnah and Civil war was removed by Allah through Saiyidina Ameer Mu’awiyah radhiyAllahu 'anhu and according to the above verse and Sahih hadiths, he was surely a Khalifah of Mu’mineen as blessed by Allah. Off course he ruled with justice and united the disintegrated Ummah.

Re: The 4th Calif - Ali Karam Allah Wajho - Sunni Only

The Stand of Ahlus Sunnah

We do regard Saiyidina 'Ali radhiyAllahu 'anhu as our 4th Khalifah though he couldn't unite Ummah which was disintegrated during his period and Majority of Sahabah and other Muslims didn't give him their pledge of allegiance because of the Fitnah which appeared due to the Munafiqeen of Kufah and Basrah who had killed our 3rd Khalifah and they had hijacked Saiyidina 'Ali radhiyAllahu 'anhu.
The reason why we still consider him our 4th Khalifah is that
1. A few Sahabah supported him,

  1. If Munafiqeen and murderers of 'Uthman radhiyAllahu 'anhu didn't hijack him, he might be chosen by all Muslims as the Khalifah. This is because Hadhrat Zubayr bin Al-'Awam (according to a hadith of Sahih Bukhari) was more favorite Candidate of khilafat after 'Uthman radhiyAllahu 'anhu.

Re: The 4th Calif - Ali Karam Allah Wajho - Sunni Only

Most certainly this forum is hijacked by Nasibis. And mods are fail to take any action.

May Allah (swt) help us all and burn the liars in hell.