What’s happening in Pakistan? It seems that putting aside a corrupt Chief Justice shouldn’t be that difficult to do. Who is mobilizing the masses? And why? Who is responsible for all the violence?
Re: Terrorism?
^^ my dear .....its time to put General **with all his buddies in **grave of dictatorship...once for all !!!!!
and CJ is the first drop of rain...and now ..in Pakistan..it is raining cats and dogs !!!!
Re: Terrorism?
Ibtada- i -ishq hay rota hay kia?
agay agay dekhiyay hota hay kia?
Its start of something - rebellion? but killing innocents is not justifiable. Old rule is, love brings love back & hate brings hate. Hate cannot prevail peace, listening to others & respecting their wish or at least negotiations can. Ironically current world leaders think that killing others can stop everything. They are cutting the stem only, we need to dig out the roots to stop it from growing again. No one talks about the roots, everyone is cutting branches.
To stop terrorism we need to ponder the root cause & try to solve that instead of finding terrorist & killing them or just bombing the whole village thinking there might be two terrorist hiding in the village of 200 people. It will just create more terrorists.
Re: Terrorism?
^^ my dear .....its time to put General **with all his buddies in **grave of dictatorship...once for all !!!!!
and CJ is the first drop of rain...and now ..in Pakistan..it is raining cats and dogs !!!!
Well, at this time, destabilizing Musharraf means destabilizing Pakistan. Ultimate purpose then appears to be to frame Musharraf and destabilize Pakistan.
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oh this is defntely bigger than just the CJ.
who all is behind it is pretty obvious
just go back 6 months and pick up all headlines that are about Pakistan, and then find the themes there.
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^ Can you give a brief description about what could be happening.
Re: Terrorism?
regime change is desired by a number of players for their own interests. geographical interests, personal political power, etc etc
people in the country have no real motivation to do much about getting rid of musharraf.
its fairly evident from the cool response all political leaders have recieved over the last year or so. yes many ppl are unhappy but its not even close to how unhappy ppl were during the terms of BB and Nawaz for example. In the greater scheme of things - people in the country did not care. contrary to wat political pundits and opposition party ppl would say.
conditions need to be created to create a sense of destabilization to force either musharraf to step down, to share power..(thus all the backdoor deal discussion with BB) or to give up power and thus BB etc get in power, or even be over thrown by another military officer who could be more pliable.
**** like this does not happen overnight and that whole 'lawyer' protests were not organic, they fully had the puppet masters of political parties pulling the strings. ..and who is pulling the puppet masters strings? ....well that is a whole diff issue.
What happened in karachi appears to be an attempt to shock the nation into looking for change. i mean 40 people...in mid 90s 40 ppl died pretty much every few days anyways. some weeks there were hundreds of ppl killed.
Re: Terrorism?
What's happening in Pakistan? It seems that putting aside a corrupt Chief Justice shouldn't be that difficult to do. Who is mobilizing the masses? And why? Who is responsible for all the violence?
Check out the politics section of this site. It is discussed in detail there
People are sick and tired of the dictatorship, and after almost 8 years, have concluded it is even worse than the govt's it replaced.
The dictator has responded in a typical dictator fashion, and you can see the results in blood.
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public at large did not have this view until recently, and i doubt that even now has such views as a majority, if they remember the ultimate hellhole Pakistan was during BBs era or Nawaz era.
stability issues are being manufactured, for people's personal gain. issue upon issue is being created, otherwise ppl get over stuff, life gets back to normal and teh bhagoray stand there scratching their heads on what happened.
The same tricks were seen in the 90's, opposition blaming govt for not being able to maintain law and order, while opposition was behind much of the problem. then the parties switched places and same games went on.
but memories are short :)
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Pir ji, I agree with some of your points, but I will tell you that during my recent visit I found the public extremely agitated, distrustful of Musharaf. There is a common belief (folklore maybe) that Musharaf and his croonies are manipulating KSE. They are buying most of the products from the market and storing them in goddams ...so they can sell them later when the supplies run short. Another perception is that he is well aware of these tactics and chooses not to do anything about it.
On a local level, life in lahore is a mess. Local Nazims (4 to 5 together) have formed partnerships and gunda parties which raid other nazims localities on regular basis with the protection from police. People are tired of this lawlessness and want a change.
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Kaleem
u said the key words, 'recent' visit. interesting events over last 3-6 months have made an interesting situation. while ppl were not thrilled with the military regime before that, they seemed resigned to living with it and not too bothered to support the likes of NS and BB or even qazi. what changed in the last 6 months that has created this domino effect which can only result in a couple of outcomes. unless it simmers down, which I do not think it will..wheels have been set in motion to have one of a handful of alternate endings. In the interests of others, not necessarily in the interests of Pakistanis. yet if the ppl want to jump on the bandwagon and bring about these changes then it is their choice now :
the type of conspiracies you mentioned are not new, I mean in nawaz era it was not a conspiracy but the fact when nawaz and his pals moved their funds overseas and then converted forex accts of ppl into rupees at horrid prices.
and as far as the life being a mess goes, when i say ppl have short memories, i mean it atleast from krachi perspective. back in the 90's especially during BB era, teh city was a mess, it was fortified, gang wars b/w haqiqi and altaf folks, shia/sunni violence on a very frequent basis and all kinds of phadday and ghunda gardee on campuses apmso, jamiat, psf, nsf, etc.
people always want a change for the better, but from what I have gathered, ppl did not want the change to be back to the same faces who were around in the 90s.
if musharraf does leave and BB or nawaz come into power after a brief honeymoon that the nation will have with her, you will hear the same or more complaints.
magar qaum tax phir bhi naheen day gi. chorr ucchakay log.
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It looks more like media frenzy and some opportunist politicians/party based Monarchs trying their bit to make a comeback.
Musharraf is not facing any real danger from these folks, neither majority people are against him....of course if media continues conducting these psy-ops, people will slowly start turning against him.
It's typical desi mentality...we call it "anti-incumbency" factor...where bahadur Junta-Janardan without even thinking that whom they are supporting won't be any better than current one, starts opposition if media and bunch of political parties---"the pillars of democracy", constantly feed them with some reason.
South Asian political parties will take at least 50 years to mature.
Junta Janardan at least 75 years to realize what voting means.
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^ I could not have said this any better. u got it.
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Pir ji, too nphir Rahbir ka water cooler bi to dein na...:D Khalli thappiyan dein rahain hain.
Personally, I think Musharaf's time is up (according to reliable sources within US govt).
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kaleem yaar sehar watch company ki tarag say 100 rupay kay inaami bond toh mein nay chappar mein day diya thay.
If US does not want ti to happen Musharraf will not go, if US wants it to happen Musharraf will go.
I would be interested in seeing the dynamics between BB-altaf-nawaz-qazi-maulana-next military chief in what happens ( I ave intentionally not mentioned ANP, BLA and other groups cuz they dont really matter aside from side noise to be used when needed by one party or another)
all I gotta say is, i fu have property in pak, sell it now, or if musharraf goes and unless uncle sam gives some serious chitrol to BB etc to keep things stable, property values will go down and flat for some time to come.
PS: waisay toh its in ISI interest that musharraf goes too bulb
Re: Terrorism?
regime change is desired by a number of players for their own interests. geographical interests, personal political power, etc etc
people in the country have no real motivation to do much about getting rid of musharraf.
its fairly evident from the cool response all political leaders have recieved over the last year or so. yes many ppl are unhappy but its not even close to how unhappy ppl were during the terms of BB and Nawaz for example. In the greater scheme of things - people in the country did not care. contrary to wat political pundits and opposition party ppl would say.
conditions need to be created to create a sense of destabilization to force either musharraf to step down, to share power..(thus all the backdoor deal discussion with BB) or to give up power and thus BB etc get in power, or even be over thrown by another military officer who could be more pliable.
**** like this does not happen overnight and that whole 'lawyer' protests were not organic, they fully had the puppet masters of political parties pulling the strings. ..and who is pulling the puppet masters strings? ....well that is a whole diff issue.
What happened in karachi appears to be an attempt to shock the nation into looking for change. i mean 40 people...in mid 90s 40 ppl died pretty much every few days anyways. some weeks there were hundreds of ppl killed.
Excellent analysis Fraudia ji. I suspect that President Musharraf is well aware of what you have outlined above, and I believe will counter all this in this end. It will be messy, and will tarnish his reputation, but I believe he will overcome, as he has indeed overcome even more serious situations in the past.
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silly billy
when all is said and done, he is a patriot..and he will do what is right for the nation, even at great personal danger and even staking his own political viability on the line.
only issue is that if within military and ISI there is some defection, which i kinda suspect based on teh loudmouth bakbak of aslam beg and co recently. then it could be a little dicey.
I mean many entities can want him gone for their own good.
so far no one has been able to make a case on how it would be good for avg Pakistanis.
Re: Terrorism?
when justice Siddiqui refused to take oath on provisional order, he was asked not to come to the SC the next day. security personnel were deployed at his house. former president tarar was also asked to resign by the generals, which he refused to do, and the constitution had to be 'bent' to make musharraf chief executive and president.
why did we not see such reaction that we're seeing now? in my view, it was because 1- musharraf was still new in his office and had enough 'health' to take such actions. 2- there was no media to cover the issue the way it has been done now. 3- both the CJ and and the former president left without challenging musharraf.
things are not what they were when musharraf came to office, and he failed to consider these factors, although he says that he had considered all aspects of the issue before filing the reference.
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The United States is sick of Musharraf, and they want him out. They're staging something to destabalize him.
How hard is this to see?
And its you Pakistanis who jump on the bandwagon. And then you say its Musharraf who is an American puppet. You people play so easily into the hands of foreign powers.
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Every dictator's time must come, even if the events have been engineered.