Terrorism a Disease in religion

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Terrorism a Disease in religion

Lajwab when Muslims have accepted unfavorable facts from history? If I pick up only the history of last 50-60 years relating only to our continent and remind you of ‘Jinnah’ inciting Muslims under ‘Direct Action Plan’, or how the trains filled with slaughtered bodies reached Amritsar over partition that sparked into a blood bath on both the sides, or the Pak army cleansing in East Pakistan, or Ayatollah Khomeini’s student wings day light killings in Iran, Kurd cleansing and everything was done on the name of great religion Islam…….the list will be very large. But the problem is that the Islamic clergy, media and people reject the events that have taken place only 6 or 7 weeks back.

schine What is the excuse that WW I or WW II took place at Christian lands and so you have a right to kill? And enlighten me if the armies in WWs carry a religious flag to justify killings?

** Lahore 981** you have raised a valid question. Off course if a few who do not have a right information of Islam carry on massacres of innocents………but how come the Islamic clergy, media and people at large declare them non-guilty at a later stage?

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Re: Terrorism a Disease in religion

I have raised some valid issues directly related to the religious psych.

How come…….(repeat from the first post)

After any blind killings we come across following declarations from the Muslim clergy….

  1. Islam is a religion of peace and we condemn these brutal killings.

  2. Islam is a religion of peace and a good Muslim cannot engage in such kind of brutal killings.

  3. We doubt some foul play in the game.

  4. There is definitely some design behind the killings.

  5. Give us proofs that Muslims have done it.

And then comes the final declaration that

  1. Muslims are not involved in any such killings and it is a design game of Jews, Hindus, USA etc etc. to malign the good name of Muslims or because they are afraid of Islam.

And ultimately the Muslim clergy followed by Muslim majority rejects to accept the disease.

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Re: Terrorism a Disease in religion

Anjjan i am happy that you are coming up with such liberal mind ok today if i except it then will you try to proveme wrong.
You cant do it i believe in one thing If someone is truthful, Get the proof.
Btw recently they were 7 caught in US as Muslims, later the attorney declared they were not Muslims but from a sect "Seas of David".
Now let me tell you Anjjann, terrorism is a disease but I dont find any proof.
The proof is lacking for sure, I used to believe not long time back the Muslims are fanatics they are disgracing our religions and the aftermath affects for Muslims is the talk.
Later, I realised all this, and the bottomline was Proof was lacking.
Let me tell you me as a Muslim if I am towards the truth and I know if I am towards the truth I will go to Paradise, and what is happening to this world is tyranny, oppression, killings I accept it as wrong I will come out and fight for the People not hide and bomb.
If he is a true Muslim, who knows Quran, will never do this acts and he knows the consequences of killing an Innoncent individual.

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Re: Terrorism a Disease in religion

So, you are saying that trains form India reached Pakistan safely? And it wasn’t atrocities…It was a fight…Both sides suffered…

And donl;t site me examples of Iran…Iran was not invading any other non-Muslim country nor carrying out genocide in another country…

Give me examples from historyt where Muslims carried out genocide on a people…And don;t give me contemporary historians from Hindutva.org…

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Re: Terrorism a Disease in religion

anjjan: Is there any cure for ignorance, deceptions, propagandist lying and false accusation? I will not go into details but would only ask you few questions and hope that you will answer sincerely and without lies.

Question one: Pakistan got independence in 1947, created in the name of Islam. *Give me one incidence with date, details and reference, when there was HINDU-MUSLIM or CHRISTIAN-MUSLIM riot in Pakistan as regularly happens in India. *

[Since I know how deceptive you all could be, I would like to clear that I want to know of riot incidence NOT individual event or occurrence that is taken as crime and where government of Pakistan acted immediately to punish the culprits.]

Question two: India got independence in 1947, created in the name of secularism and because of that many non-Hindu areas were included in India (Like Punjab, Assam, Bengal and number of Muslim enclaves all around India etc) but still, *why India is marred with Hindu-Muslim riots, Hindu-Sikh riots, Hindu-Christian riots, Hindu-X (any minority) riots etc? *

[To avoid expected deceptive answers from you all, I would like to make things clear that when I write riots I mean riots, like riots of Gujrat, Bombay, Agra, Ranchi, Audhia, Delhi, Punjab etc etc etc etc ……………. etc etc thousands of time.

Again, to make things clear and not to let you hide on population figures, I would like to mention that until 1971 (when Pakistan included East Pakistan) Pakistan Muslim population was 85 percent, almost similar to Indian Hindu population of around 80 percent.

To further clear the population matter, even now many places in interior Sindh has substantial Hindu minorities and part of Punjab has Christian minorities, so can you give incidence of Hindu-Muslim riot or Muslim-Christian riots that ever happened in Pakistan (post 1971 or pre 1971)].

Question three: Give me one incidence when a non-Muslim religious place was blown up or destroyed in Pakistan and Pakistan government did not acted to punish the culprit and restore the place. *Something that regularly happens in India and government of India does nothing regarding punishing the culprit and restoring the place (Demolition of Babri Masjid and even humiliation of Sikh Golden Temple happened).*

Just imagine when Jerusalem came under Muslim rule during the time of Umar (RA), Christian custodian of Jerusalem wanted Muslims to keep ban on Jews from entering Jerusalem (as what Christians were doing since the time Jerusalem came under Christians rule in first century AD). Muslims did not accept this clause on basis that practice of religion is right of all.

[Note: Incidence of humiliation and demolition of minorities worship places happens nowhere in the world except India by Hindus. In this 20th and 21st century era these degrading and disgusting happenings is trademark of only Indian Hinduism. Such happening never happened in Pakistan, despite creation of Pakistan was in the name of Islam, on Muslim majority areas (actually, only those Muslim majority areas that were in two large blocks) whereas basis of India was on secular basis and thus British included many non-Hindu majority areas with India. To make India large and Pakistan small, British split many Muslim majority provinces, making Muslim majority provinces to non-Muslim majority areas and thus including it with India (even though still after splitting, it was not Hindu-majority areas)..

For instance British split Assam (taking out a small area ‘district Sylhet’ from Assam with almost 100 percent Muslim population to make Assam overall non-Muslim majority area (reducing Assam to around 49 percent Muslim).

British also split Punjab (that includes Haryana and Hamachal Perdesh) and west Bengal to include these areas with India (even after split, Assam and Punjab was not Hindu-majority area). So why non-Muslims and their worshipping place does not find security in India as they find security in Pakistan.]

Question four: Can you tell me of any place in Islamic world where non-Muslims (or minorities) get persecuted (physically and/or verbally) as happens in India (regularly) or what Jews are doing in Israel or what Russians do in Russia or what happened in past Yugoslavia or now what happening in USA and even Europe?

Question five: Can you tell me of any community other then Muslims who are living under occupation like Palestine, Kashmir, Afghanistan, Iraq and Chechnya?

[Note: Palestine is only place in the world that is officially under occupation as that occupation is recognized by their occupier (Israel, who does not want Palestinian to be equal citizen as any Israeli and still like to keep them under occupation), UN and world. Even western world (including US and Europe) that boast of freedom, human rights and democracy, shows their crooked true face when it comes to Palestine as they not only condone occupation of Palestine but stay unmoved on living of Palestinians under inhuman condition as occupied people, without any having any dignity, freedom or human rights.]

As regarding persecution of Zoroastrians in Iran by Muslims and their taking refuge in India because of persecution is a big propaganda lies that you are using. Truth is that, Persian empire went to war with Muslims during earlier days of Islam and after loosing, many of their ruling class left Iran to India. They are living in India since then. There was no migration of Zoroastrians from Iran to India after that (other then individuals that may have migrated because of their personal reasons).

Now it is obvious that when people are wrong and oppressed many fight against that wrong and oppression by means that is available to them. Most time, their ways of fighting is not conventional as they are in such situation because they have no direct means to fight their oppressors. Those that consider that people fighting against their oppression and for their rights, justice, freedom and dignity are terrorists then problem is not with those fighting but with those oppressors that want to keep others oppressed and desire that these oppressed should not have rights, justice or freedom nor these oppressed should even fight for that

 **These are five of many simple questions. If you have any problem regarding terrorism associating it with Islam, please answer them one by one clearly or accept that either you are ignorant of the facts or playing a role as part of deceptive, propagandist lair.**
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Re: Terrorism a Disease in religion

EXACTLY! im so proud of u :bb:

disease in the religion !?! :naraz: wake up

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Re: Terrorism a Disease in religion

Sa1eem Can you tell me what was the % ratio of minorities in (West) Pakistan in 1950 and what is it now in 2006?

Off course India is infamous for Hindu-Muslim riots......have patience and find out (study thoroughly) who often makes a start in most of the cases. And even after that Muslim population has increased in India.

You have written a very entertaining lecture with pre-conditions. I have no reasons to laugh. Just for a chance, please find out who belonged to the present day Chechnya if not to Russians, which was given to Chechens in 1870, the natives of Caucasus mountains, (normal trade….kidnapping, loot etc) so that they could start a normal living and give up violence. But instead of being thankful, the first step they took was to threaten the native Russians of Grozniy to the extent that today not a single Russian is left in Grozniy and Chechnya, like no Hindu ethnic Kashmiri is left in the valley. *Read history first * and then tell me, who is the aggressor!

Rest, Israel, Afghanistan also we can talk, but better for that you go to the political forum and don’t hide behind religion.

*It is beyond imagination if minorities can riot in an Islamic state. * Not long ago three Hindu girls were abducted and married forcibly to Muslims in Pakistan. If such incident will take place in India against Muslims…..how will Muslims react if not thru riots?

/\/\/\/\ Above incident was thoroughly discussed in Gupshup, and majority of Muslims supported the clergy….for your information!

Have patience and pick up the today’ world map….

Muslim vs Hindus, Muslim vs Christians, Muslim vs Jews, Muslim vs Buddhists and wherever Muslims are in majority….Muslim vs Muslims.

What’s wrong? We definitely need to discuss.

Ps, yur questions are really very simple, but when you have patience to accept the fatcs.

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Re: Terrorism a Disease in religion

This is always a misnomer that Muslim population is increased why the Hindus population hasnt increased by the way the Media propagates in such a manner, and are cryptic in most situations.
Population last time the census was carried it was a big hoopla the Muslims population increased by 20% now what an issue about this and the Hindu Population by some 13% or so.
Hindu pandit says give birth to more kids otherwise Muslims will overtake us.
This topic is misunderstood and illogical. The media why dont they put the increase in number rather than in percentage.
For eg If they are 10 **units and the next survey **it shoots up to 15 units, its increased by 5 units and Percentage increase is 50% huge right really huge.
The above eg is for the Muslims
Now for Hindus, If they are 100 units, and the next survey they** increases to 110** units, no. of units increased to 10 and percentage increase is 10% just meagre compared to above eg.
Now 10 is greater or 5 decide yourself, but percentage if taken then there is a huge difference.
Just google and type Demographics in India.
Bring this stupid debate of Population which made a big news in India.
Let me tell you this is poverty, illetracy and unemployment in India which is affecting the Population in India (Since Man is idle in the house he needs some entertainment), unlike the politicians who repudiate above arguments.

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Re: Terrorism a Disease in religion

Sorry bro these things do happen in pakistan as well. This is what I found on net; http://www.persecution.org/Countries/pakistan.html
http://www.persecution.org/Countries/iran.html
http://www.persecution.org/Countries/egypt.html
http://www.persecution.org/Countries/sudan.html

http://www.minorityrights.org/admin/Download/Pdf/MRGPakistanReport.pdf

http://www.thepersecution.org/dl/newsline_p.pdf

and from another site;

  1. Niamat Ahmar very highly qualified, second headmaster (teacher) form one government High School, poet, writer was butchered with a butcher knife in the daylight, out of the government office, in the presence of lots of people, mainly Muslims. His body was cut into the pieces, the killer was speaking loudly with religious verses, slogans that he had killed a Christian blasphemer. The large crowd of Muslims were watching the brutal scene and later they garlanded the killer that he had done the noble pious work of killing a Christian. This had happened in Faisalbad, a district of Punjab.
    Niamat Ahmar had neither spoken, nor written a word against the sanctity of their prophet. It was just a matter of a transfer case so one teacher could be at the school where Niamat was teaching. The government and the people of that area wanted to keep Ahmar there because he was a very hard worker and good, capable teacher. The other Muslim teacher who wanted to come in his place made a dirty plan. He wrote some hand bills by his own hands, posted on the walls. Those hand bills aroused the emotions and religious feelings. Then a man was instigated, and prepared to kill Niamat Ahmar. The Sipahe Sohabah of Pakistan was the main master mind behind this plot. Last Year Niamat’s daughter was burnt to death also by the Muslim Fundamentalists.
  2. There has been registered a blasphemy case against one Christian man named Anwar Masih. Anwar Masih once became a Muslim and was put to addiction to Hashish and Heroine. He had a good physical stout structure. The Muslims did not want to see a very healthy Christian man. When he turned back to Christianity this was considered a severe blasphemy to their prophet. One day, when he was purchasing something from a shop, where the shopkeeper (under plan) started shouting that Anwar Masih was denouncing the name of their prophet. As he saw the situation, he sought the refuge and shelter in the Church of Samundhri where he was arrested by the police. There was a big gathering to kill him, but the police took him into custody at the jail in Faisalabad. He has been waiting for trial for three years during this time many attempts have been made to kill him in the jail. He is a family man, father of three children. His parents are elderly people and have no job. Anwar was a driver.
    The whole family is going through great tribulations. Not only the parents and relatives but also the other Christians in Faisalabad, rather in Punjab are having great harassment and great danger.
  3. Iqbal Tahir, a new Christian convert from the Muslim Community, ex serviceman, an electrical technician from the Air Force, was killed mysteriously in a Lahore jail. When Tahir became a Christian, he started to give testimony how he became a Christian and why he left Islam. This action was considered blasphemy. He was giving testimony that different verses of Quran and so teachings of their prophet were very much contradictory to his understanding. He had also been marking and underlining the verses of Quran which were the points of talks. The case was registered under 295.B (disgracing to the Holy Quran) then later he was also booked under 295.C. The Lahore District & Session and High Court Judges refused to grant him bail as he had applied, he sent applications to the state authorities that his life was in great danger because he was receiving threats of dire consequence. He was offered if he would deny Jesus Christ, accept Islam again he would be released and his life would be safe. As he refused to become Muslim, he was killed by the wardens and fellow prisoners as he was nominated a blasphemer.
  4. A victim of blasphemy law named Manzoor Masih from District Gujranwala was shot dead in Lahore outside of Lahore High Court on April 5. 1994 by the Islamists hard-liner as he along with other victims of this law were on their way home from the court hearing waiting for the bus. Four Muslim terrorists came and fired at them. There Manzoor Masih died on the spot. The other three were injured seriously. This was another extra judicial killing.
    The Muslims did not wait for the judgment from the competent court. They tried to kill the victims. Actually, a false case was registered against Manzoor Masih. Rehmat Masih and Salamat Masih, that one of them, Salamat Masih was writing blasphemous words on the wall of the mosque with a stone of brick and some chits were thrown in the mosque by them. Trial had been going on in Gujranwala, then was later transferred to Lahore Session court -here both Rehmat Masih and Salamat Masih were sentenced for capital punishment by the Additional Session Judge in Lahore. Then an appeal was filed against the judgment. The Double Bench of Lahore High Court continued hearing for seven days where they were acquitted free. This blasphemy case against the victims proved to be false. This case became well known on the Intentional level. The Press and electronic media came from all over the world, especially from the Western World. The Muslim Fundamentalists have been demonstrating against the Judges of Lahore High Court, Benazir Bhutto, the Prime Minster, and against the Christians. The hearings of this case have been heard, observed, and reported by myself. It is also known to the diplomats, international Human Rights Organizations, and even to the Government authorities. At this time Rehmat Masih and Salamat Masih are in Germany on Asylum.
  5. One Bantoo Masih, an aged man who was brought to the police station at Lahore Cantt, as he was accused of blasphemy where his case was being registered. While there one Muslim stabbed him and he died after a few days. No case was registered against the killers. He is at large in Lahore and is boasting to be a hero who has killed a Christian Blasphemer to Mohammad, the Holy Prophet of the Muslims. 6. Mukhtar Masih, as evangelist and aged man, was tortured to death as he was brought in by the police in Nishtar Colony, Model Town, Lahore that he had written some blasphemous letter to the Muslim Priest of a Mosque. The Police had arrested six Christians belonging to one family to find that by whom the letter was written. The police had been beating and interrogating them with third class methods. The others were in good health and could bear the torture, but Mukha Masih, being an old man, died by the police torture.

There are many incidents of the brutality brought on Christians by Muslims. The Christian localities (village), their churches, their houses, their grave yards are demolished, their belongings are looted by Muslims. Whenever these Christians approach the authorities, they always show insensitivity towards the Christians. Rather Christians are treated with eternal religious animosity. Names of some Christian villages are being mentioned which have become the target of Muslim attackers.

  1. Village Mattah, District Lahore
  2. Village Bath, District Lahore
  3. Village Jindre, District Lahore
  4. Village China Basti, District Lahore
  5. Village Dhobhi Serai, District Lahore
  6. Village Ahata Thanedar District Lahore
  7. Village Raiwind, District Lahore
  8. Village Martinpur, District Sheikhupura
  9. Village Youngsonabad. District Sheikhupura
  10. Village 113. Sangla. District Sheikhupura
  11. Village Sacha Sauda, District Sheikhupura
  12. Village Singhra, District Sheikhupura
  13. Village Qila Diar Singla, District Gujranwala
  14. Village Khan Jaja, District Sialkot
  15. Village Fauji Quarters (Army), Peshawar
  16. Village Dogaich, District Lahore Many more villages, localities of the Christians, have been bulldozed. They have been made homeless, shelterless, they were forced to become unknown, unrecognized, unregistered refugees in their own home country. Whenever the Muslim refugees come into Pakistan, they are provided with all their basic necessities by the government of Pakistan as well as by the western countries, but sorry to say that the Christians are looted by the Muslims whenever they get a chance to deprive them of the belongings they have.
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Re: Terrorism a Disease in religion

Those defending their country will not kill their own people, atleast indiscriminately i.e. bombing in markets, mosques, roadside etc. Zarqawi is blamed for all these actions, even if his such actions were 10% while 90% of actions were against invading army he is still a sinner IMO.

GS UNION...........
GS UNION...........
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Re: Terrorism a Disease in religion

We can not say he is a sinner who planned to destroy the US soldiers. Allah Tallah knows who is a sinner. Even many Muslims people hate Ossama Bin Laden, I don't.

pain(for married girls only)
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Re: Terrorism a Disease in religion

[quote=anjjan]

schine What is the excuse that WW I or WW II took place at Christian lands and so you have a right to kill? And enlighten me if the armies in WWs carry a religious flag to justify killings?

quote]

I never EVER said there was an excuse to kill. Are you really reading my posts or are they too intellectually written for your grasp? Please explain. I don't understand what you are saying here. Anyways, whether there were any flags or not - were the Jews not being targeted by Hitler? Is that not religion? Need I say more? AND to reiterate, I do not AGREE WITH KILLING OF INNOCENT PEOPLE. MILITARY TARGETS ARE DIFFERENT - THEY ARE ACCEPTABLE UNDER WAR SITUATIONS.

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Re: Terrorism a Disease in religion

Thanks - my boold boils hearing this term! Ugggggh!:mad:

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Re: Terrorism a Disease in religion

**Light Bearer: **Brother, there is no denial what you wrote. Minorities in Muslim world do occasionally become victim of religious violence. Actually, many Muslims do not consider them parasites who do atrocities in the name of Islam as Muslims. Many consider them as agents of kuffars and many consider them as cult that claims to be Muslim. Unfortunately, occasionally one can see their influences in government too with introduction of various repugnant laws just to appease them, but there are plenty of voices against them.

Regardless, I am not ignorant to deny their existence nor I would contest what is in those reports. That is why, when I put those questions I made sure to exclude happenings that do not enjoy supports of majority or have state patronage. Please read my mail and questions carefully. You will realize what I was asking.

To clarify again, what I was asking was regarding riots and government doing nothing about it, as they do not punish the culprits. Further, I wrote about destruction of worship places by mob, that when happens government (of India) not only do not punish the culprits but do not even rebuild (or allow rebuilding) that worshipping places (like Babri mosque). When such happens in Pakistan, government tries to punish the culprits and help getting that worshipping place rebuild.

Well, I could go on each of those five questions individually but I believe that if you read them along with explanations and according to their context, all questions would become clear.

As for anjaan: I am not surprised that he did not give answer to any of them questions and evaded them all by beating the bush and creating irrelevant stories. I am still waiting for his reply for each of my questions, in details.

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Re: Terrorism a Disease in religion

Nahin Bhai ji na koi sawal hai mere pass na jawab. I just wanted to share something about minorities. The reason I got interested in this was one of my close friends is a christian fellow, his in laws are from Khanewal in Pakistan. In 1997 there was a mob attack in Khanewal and neighboring villages. Long story short, my freinds father in law lost three houses, mangoo gardens two cars, practically had to start all over again. After this incident this friend of mine called all the rest of the group in one place and asked one question;
If these mobs were not true muslims then where are the true muslims to stop them?
Sorry to say I had no answer to that.

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Re: Terrorism a Disease in religion

Friend, your questions are too intelligent to understand. As per your pre-conditions…not to discuss the Islamic atrocities against minorities in Islamic states…I can only give up.

I also wonder why riots do not take place in Pakistan when the Islamists kidnap Hindu girls and in India if a Hindu guy dares to look at a Muslim girl, it ends in riots…(This is the history of Aligar, UP, India)
**Repeat **…Study thoroughly who has started riots in India in most of the cases.

And if you dare to tell me what was the % ratio of minorities in (West) Pakistan in 1950 and what is it now in 2006…you will get answer to all your kindness towards minorities in Pakistan.

Your problem with Babri……Many Islamic structures in India were built in direct encroachment of Hindu religious centers. What is wrong if Hindus ask **only for three **?

Islam does not allow destruction of religious centers of other communities, conditions applied.
Babri, Mathura Mosque and Kashi Mosque were built after destroying Hindu worship places and are an open attack on the religious sentiments of Hindus…….why do you fight against the teachings of Islam and Quran in this matter.
India is the only country where the majority Hindus cannot build a temple of their own choice.

Can you give me a list of minority worship places existing in Pakistan in 1950 and how many are left today?

Chechnya….you will never accept the facts already exposed. Israel…Arab war is a real joke. First, Arab Muslims sold their lands to Jews and then started praying Allah to kill these Jews.

When did a ** Palestine State ** ever exist in entire history?

A formula that was applied in the formation of Pakistan, in the division of Yugoslavia, and now in Chechnya….accept the same for Jews!

Will you forever continue the **‘play the victim’ ** game. Sorry, people are fed up of this drama.

Ps, Sikh problem….can you pardon me if do not answer this question? Because, I cannot understand when Muslims became their brothers after killings many of Sikh Gurus (read history) and butchering them in partition days.

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Re: Terrorism a Disease in religion

And Sa1eemif you still beleive in your theology, pls reread the followin, courtsey to Light Bearer

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Re: Terrorism a Disease in religion

There are bad apples everywhere, just because some so called 'muslims' commit crimes doesn't mean that they represent Islam.

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Re: Terrorism a Disease in religion


IF (emphasis is on 'if') he was guilty of killing civilians (suicide bombing in markets, mosques etc.) then he is a sinnner doesn't matter how dearly one holds him.

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Re: Terrorism a Disease in religion

Agree to you totally there are bad apples in every religion, sect and race. IMHO with our education and tolerance first of all we should identify and try to cure the bad apples, if it does not work then seperate ourselves from the bad apples.