Re: Terrible news from NWFP...
Im a Muslim in exile. Love to figure out what you think your prophet would have done to people who didnt pray though. Convince me to reconvert please! Still, must I be punished if I dont want to pray?
Re: Terrible news from NWFP…
Whilst I support the rest of your post, there is one small issue here.
No one who doesn’t pray would publically state they were not Muslim, because that would be confessing to the crime of apostacy and there are serious criminal punishments for that.
If someone who was born into a Muslim family does not want to pray, then saying that they are not Muslim would lead to them being arrested.
Re: Terrible news from NWFP…
Even more protest against the Hasba bill… Apparently, no one in the country is a “good” Muslims since most are against this stupid thing…
Hasba Bill criticized as anti-women
http://www.dawn.com/2005/07/23/nat21.htm
By Our Correspondent
HYDERABAD, July 22: Speakers at a seminar on “political participation of women” on Thursday have called for review of the Hasba Bill which, they said, would lead to more curbs on women’s participation in the system. They said that the bill should not be enforced in the NWFP or in any other part of the country because it would alienate the women who have started taking part in the political system.
The seminar was organized at the press club under the aegis of Aurat Foundation.
Rana Siddiqui, Saira Naseer, Sehar Rizvi, Shamshad Memon, Naureen Rajput, Dr Najeeb Memon, Khalid Jatoi, Gulnar Sheikh and Ghaffar Malik spoke on the occasion.
The foundation has planned to establish camps outside the offices of returning officers to facilitate women candidates to file their nominations for different categories.
Former member district council Saira Naseer said that women had played their due role in the first tenure of local government system although the commitment on the part of district government officials with regard to solution of women’s issues was completely missing. She said that women were never acknowledged in the council and in the district government yet they tried their level best to highlight women issues at the provincial and national level.
She said that they had proved that they were more effective then the UC nazims.
She said that women wanted to work with their male counterparts because they were supposed to be two wheels of the society and without men’s support women could not excel in their fields.
She said that reservations of women regarding Hasba Bill must be removed because they believed that the Bill would put more curbs on women’s participation in the system.
She also called for training of women councillors as soon as the second tenure of local government representatives began after completion of local body polls and added that they should also be paid honorarium like nazims.
She said that their role must be specified by the National Reconstruction Bureau in the SLGO clearly so that they should be acknowledged properly.
Re: Terrible news from NWFP...
I guess the news about Pakistani lesbians, Pakistani porno industry, Pakistani homo groups and their mettings etc. etc. skipped your inbox.
Sorry for the late reply. This is not due to women walking on the streets, Logo. FYI, I've been to karachi and most women will walk around pretty well-covered and in decent clothing.
Hamid Mir of Capital Talk is going to give a great show on this issue in the next episode of Capital Talk (Tuesday nights in USA).
Re: Terrible news from NWFP...
**I see the issue as being very simple. A truly Islamic system would be accepted by a Muslim people. If the MMA's law is truly Islamic, then the overwhelmingly Muslim population of the NWFP will be happy with it and will re-elect the MMA at the next election, due in the next 2-3 years.
If the Hisba Bill establishes a system that is not truly Islamic and which instead oppresses the people, then the overwhelming Muslim population of the NWFP will reject the MMA and bring into power a party that will repeal the law.**
The only calm and unemotional reply here in these past few pages.
Mad sci- i think you are wrong. If the Hisbah Bill is unsatisfactory to the people, there is no guarantee that the people will be able to vote out the MMA in the next election because the Mohtasibs exercise absolute power, and would be able to silence and force people into voting for the MMA.
The problem I see with the bill is the absolute power that the Mohtasib has. If the individual in the position is a good person, then fine - things might work out. If the individual in the position is not a good person, then there is room for a lot of damage. And there is NO check upon this position other than the very people who made the Bill.
There are inherent problems in the structure of the bill that lead for abuse.
- absolute power of mohtasibs.
- many of the rules do not apply to those in provincial Parliament.
I doubt Mush will allow this to actually happen. Chances are they'll place governor's rule on the province and maybe rig elections so that MMA doesn't come into power again. But then again, Mush needs mullah support right now given the raids he's been doing in Lahore and Karachi, and I'm sure NWFP is next. So you never know. Mush is treading in dangerous waters with these mullahs, though.
As for the side point made here on whether the State has the right to enforce prayer - how about we take that to the religion forum?
Re: Terrible news from NWFP…
You’re making assumptions there. Nothing in the proposed law states the power the position wields will permit interference in elections.
Re: Terrible news from NWFP...
This bill only becomes law when the Governor of NWFP, Khalil-ur-Rehman signs it, which I believe he has not as of yet?
Re: Terrible news from NWFP…
Women walk around pretty well covered? and hence the society is free from all ills?
Re: Terrible news from NWFP...
You're making assumptions there. Nothing in the proposed law states the power the position wields will permit interference in elections.
And since when do people follow the letter of the law, and try their utter best to not abuse it in the country of Pakistan?
Sharaabi: I'm saying that whether women walk around covered or not has little to do with the rest of the ills in society.
The causal relations following are all false, which I think too many people buy into:
Women walk without dupattas on their heads --> fosters lesbian relationships, and porn industries, and homosexuality, and widespread nudity.
Women walk around with dupattas on their heads, perferably burqas --> soceity becomes respectable.
Both of these causal relationships are totally unfounded.
Re: Terrible news from NWFP...
So if the people of NWFP are such amazing muslims (as you guys claim they are) why do they need this bill?
Its just a political move on the part of MMA, and think its going to do them more harm, there are already rifts in the alliance because of this.
Re: Terrible news from NWFP...
^ Good point. I always thought that NWFP is one of the most conservative areas in the whole muslim world.
Re: Terrible news from NWFP…
Does it matter what you think?
Its called democracy. You vote for a party based on policies. If that party wins it implements changes its sees fit. If the people of that area are not in favour of these policies they will change the government next election.
External opinions are of no consequence. If they voted for this government then they get this government.
Re: Terrible news from NWFP…
Duh, go back and read my initial post einstein (part of it posted below for your convenience), thats what I said. Does that stop me from discussing the issue, NO!
I have no beef with how this issue is being passed, since it is afterall coming from a democratically elected provincial government, but my question was for those who are in favor of this bill.
Re: Terrible news from NWFP...
let's wait and see what comes of this. for the time the Federal Govt's querry to the Supreme Court is pending; we can wait for what the judiciary says. And whatever it says, whichever direction things go in, will have to be accepted by the public in the end. So let's keep this discussion till here now and we can start again when the issue reaches the stage where it's actually passed as a law or is accepted or implemented and so on...