Re: Terrible news from NWFP...
The people of frontier province ask for better roads, access to potable water, good and cheap education, jobs and improved law and order situation, these should be the main objectives of the MMA government. Whether the people of Pakhtunkhwa pray five times a day, observe ramadan or whatever should be left upto them.
Re: Terrible news from NWFP...
The Frontier Post
Hasba bill draws wide flak in Swabi
Muqaddam Khan
SWABI: The leaders of various political parties have said Tuesday that the Hasba Bill would create anarchy and chaos across the NWFP, putting the masses at the mercy of religious leaders.
In a rabita programme the political pundits opined that the Muttahida Majlis-i-Amal government has political motives beneath the passing of the bill.
The Awami National Party district president Haji Rehmanullah said that bill has given absolute power to the ombudsman to act accordance with his own belief and no one could challenge him.
In such situation he said the people would go where. He said that was the reason that the political pundits and constitutional experts called it a ‘black law’ and declared that its implementation would have most horrible implications on the country politics and its image in the world.
He said the bill is encouraging the meddling of police in the internal affairs of the people and that might not be tolerated by the Frontier Pukhtuns.
The PPP Parliamentarians president Manfat Khan predicted that the NWFP Governor would never put his signature to the bill and with his signature it could not become a law.
The former district naib-nazim Liaqat Ahmad Khan also castigated the bill and said that all this were done for only political mileage and gaining influence for the upcoming local bodies elections. But the people he said are well aware of their tactics that what they really meant by this bill.
The PML-N general secretary Dildar Khan alleged that the religious parties have always worked as B team of the army and at present the same hide and seek game is going on in the province and Federal level.
The former district nazim Jehan Zeb Khan said that the MMA want to strengthen their position in the province and they have no interest in the real Islamization but only deceiving the people.
Tehrik-i-Insaf leader Akhtar Khan also castigated the Hasba Bill and demanded its immediate withdrawal.
Re: Terrible news from NWFP…
Yaar, who in Pashtunistan or the rest of Pakistan for that matter is against Islam or the word of God? They dont need this law, it pointeless.
This will only be used to harass and opress people that is all. ThatS NOT ISLAMIC!
Re: Terrible news from NWFP...
Why did the prophet (Saw) IMPLEMENT (key point to note, implement) a system, when the majority of people around him were the highest in iman and were all muslims...why did they need a system? the reason is because a system keeps people in check.
everybody is a muslim in Pakistan, yet people steal, people commit zina, people rape, people abuse children, peadophiles, pornography is present, illicit things go on, non-islamic things go on. yet this is all against what Allah (swt) sent the Prophet (Saw) for. he sent him as an example, so that people follow him. It doesnt say in the Quran oh those in authority dont care about anything, but it clearly states enjoing good forbid evil, establish prayer upon people, make them pay zakat.
does everybody pay zakat? i doubt it
do people earn halal money in pakistan, yet they are muslims. does bribes go on in pakistan. what kind of system is that? you need a system to bring justice....if this hasba bill isnt good, it will be better than current system, which is unjust. tell me which person gets justice from courts? tell me if somebody goes jail, he can come out, by bribing people...is this something better? why do you be quick to judge something which hasnt been implemented, yet you are not critical of the current system. i would try out any system other than the current...and then we will see whether one is bad and the other is good..you cant pre-judge, oh that they will do this and that.
shawaiz forget your long articles, all you can post is some massive articles, speak for yourself...we can all find things like that on the internet and paste it.
If a person in Pakistan is not against Allah and the Quran, they wouldnt be against islamic law! if a person is not against Allah, they wouldnt say oh hijab a woman doesnt have to wear it...because Allah says in Quran for women to wear it....so tell me what do you mean people in pakistan not against Allah. i saw a programme where women in pakistan were saying that about hijab. yes if a woman dont wear hijab, she says oh i am sinful...thats understandable, but when people think they are scholars and say i dont have to, thats where there is clear conflict with Allah (swt).
Re: Terrible news from NWFP...
Even if there were Islamic laws, the people would still steal, rape, be pedophiles. One of my friends was in High school when he went to Hajj. He told me that there were people stealing money there. He even got hit on by one of the shop keepers! Point is, Islamic Laws are fine, but just because they are Islamic doesnt make the society change.
Any law is good if, its a good law, be it Islamic or otherwise. A law is judged not by where it comes from, but by its practicality. This law is not practical, you can reinterpret it so that it is, but if the law is impractical even if its Islamic then its not a good law. And if it violates our rights, then is that Islamic aswell?>
This law is not Islamic because it can easily abused by corrupt officials. This is not needed because most of what they intend to do, like make sure people pray and stuff are things people are doing already. They are simply trying to make an oppresive law, and putting the word Islam next to it so that people are fooled into thinking its a good thing.
As for Zakat, most people dont pay their taxes let alone zakat. The govt of Pakistan doesnt need this law to puish people who dont pay their taxes or give Zakat, its something they should be doing regardless.
Re: Terrible news from NWFP...
Well in Afghanistan if you were to go back in the day, you wouldnt even be able to leave your home. what did islamic law do??? bring crime down to probably 0.1%. people said they were travelling and they found a piece of luggage left behind, the next day they went to the same place it was still left there un-touched. in the west you are not even that safe to travel, but in a place with little resources and so many weapons in the country, there was no crime. yet you challenge what Allah says? Allah (swt) knows more than you, and more than anybody as to how to bring society under control and stop crime...yet you refuse that? Saudi government are hypocrites, if they were firm muslims, then you would see even more good in saudi, but even currently compare crime in saudi to pakistan or the west.
every law can be mis-used by people, but whats your point...there should be no law at all? lets have that then! if you say make a law to stop criminals, they will be sent to jail. islamic law is the best, in that you need witnesses, you need a judge who knows islamic law, you need people who do not lie, who are known to be truthful, you need a leader who is islamic and not a lier, not a hypocrite, all these factors in place there is little way to misuse law, and anybody who does will also be punished under islamic law. its just people are too ignorant and when somebody says islamic law they start criticising it so much, but the current law people are happy with.
When a criminal steals from you, kills your family member that is not violating your rights??? yet when somebody enforces a law to curb criminals that violates your right?
In islam there is no such thing as taxes, there is Zakat and Sadaqah. If everybody who is eligible to pay zakat, pays it there wouldnt be no poverty in the world! thats how powerful it is. taxes is a cruel way in taking money from people, even the poor they take it from. another thing is the leadership in Pakistan is so poor, that nobody will give taxes, because they do not trust such hypocrites. that is why i said a leader in islam has to be trustworthy, firm upon islam...musharraf is total opposite, and the whole leadership.
What is so cruel if a person is making people pray, stop child abuse, stop crime, make people close shops when its prayer time, this is disciplining society. yet its not cruel when people are killed for no reason in waziristan, when women are raped everyday in Pakistan, when people have to pay jehez (hasba bill against it), when people are looted everyday, this is not cruel? when your country is a slave of america that is not cruelty to the people? when madrassahs are raided that is not cruelty? i can go on and on
Re: Terrible news from NWFP...
Yaar, you know which city and country is considered among the safest if not the safest in the world? Its Tokyo, Japan. Japan is a peaceful society by nature despite of the fact that probably less then 1 percent of their popuation is Muslim.
The resaon Islamic laws word is because of zero tolerance, although this is questionable. You dont need Islamic laws to have zero tolerance.
While we may not always be safe in America, although this is over exagerating the situation, crime situation isnt so bad here either. I never have to worry about somone arresting me for not praying. Women dont have to stay at home all day, and they dont have to wear the veil unless they want to. People are free to listen to music, to dance, to have concerts. All this freedom exists in the West, and yet the society hasnt collapsed the way it has in Islamic ruled countries. The West has prospered with out relgion and without Islamic laws. Afghanistan had the Taliban, and what did they do? They brought peace, but at what cost? Peace without freedom is worthless..
Every law can be misused, so you try to make laws that arent. When a law is misused, you change it. In Pakistan, laws like the Hudood and Blasphemy law are being misused and yet religous groups are against changeing them. Same thing will happen with this law. They mean well, but its obvious that this will be another blasphemy law in the making. Also, I dont think god intends for people to be harased for not praying or doing other Islamic thing, but none of the relgious people will ever question whether god really wants such intrusive institutions... No one will be punished for abusing the law, because every time such law is questioned, that person is marked for death. Many times, people who are accused of blasphemy are screwed, because the Judges are threatened, and scared of the fanatic Muslims. Its unislamic you see, to question Islamic laws, so when Islamic laws are abused everyone stays quite.
And this law isnt to punish murderers, its to punish and criminalize people who decide they dont want to pray, who dont want to wear the veil. This is just relgious terrorsim nothing more.
And people should pay Zakat, if its a good thing then by all means, please... I suport it.
And it is a violation of our rights for the govt to force people to stop bussines when its prayer time or make people pray. But lets not equate child abuse and rape with not praying. Child abuse and rape are crimes, Not praying is just being lazy or not caring, andf that s between you and god. Relgious police are an evil institution, which violate the sanctity of our religous beliefs or the lack there off, our privacy and personal freedom.
Re: Terrible news from NWFP...
^^ Go read the Constitution of you country, and read what the first line of the Objective Resolution states:
*Sovereignty belongs to Allah alone but He has delegated it to the State of Pakistan through its people for being exercised within the limits prescribed by Him as a sacred trust. *
Re: Terrible news from NWFP...
I really don't see why people are complaining about the law.
I see the issue as being very simple. A truly Islamic system would be accepted by a Muslim people. If the MMA's law is truly Islamic, then the overwhelmingly Muslim population of the NWFP will be happy with it and will re-elect the MMA at the next election, due in the next 2-3 years.
If the Hisba Bill establishes a system that is not truly Islamic and which instead oppresses the people, then the overwhelming Muslim population of the NWFP will reject the MMA and bring into power a party that will repeal the law.
The Hisba Bill represents the first time for many, many centuries, that Muslims have chosen thorugh their elected representatives to live under their representatives' interpretation of Islamic law.
I view this as being an extremely important litmus test for assessing whether or not the MMA's version of Islamic law is a correct enough interpretation to be successfully applicable to a developed province.
If the people of the NWFP end up being oppressed by this law, then what we will have discovered is that the MMA have an incorrect and oppressive version of Islam, one that the rest of Pakistan would then be likely to reject.
If the MMA are successful and can be seen to bring about an improvement in society through this law, then a lesson will be learnt there too.
Re: Terrible news from NWFP…
So you mean to say people who forcefully pull you away from damnation and towards eternal salvation are evil?
FYI, if religion was a personal matter, Islam would’nt enforce the concepts of Jihaad and Amr bil ma’roof and nahi an alMunkar.
Re: Terrible news from NWFP…
Yes. This doesnt mean the relgous police can go around forcing everyone into the Mosque for prayer. Thats not the commandment of god… When did god say its the responsibilty of the religous police to force peope to pray and do other such things? At most, not praying is not a crime against state, nor is being a bad Muslim in general a crime, but a sin that should be taken up with god not some butt hole mullah with a stick…
Re: Terrible news from NWFP...
Sharabi hit the nail on the head.
People who say islam is ONLY an internal/personal matter they are speaking from their whims and desires, but not really from an islamic perspective. there is no two opinions on this matter, islam is not only personal but also wider than that, it provides for communities, and there is responsibility more wider than just personal. it says many times in the Quran enjoin good forbid evil, what does that mean? It means involvement with OTHERS, its got nothing to do with yourself. it means when you see evil, change it with your hand, if not by your tongue, if not have it known in your heart that is evil, but that is the weakest of iman. so there is commandments in Islam saying not only to change yourself, but help to change the society by whatever way you can.
As i told you about prayer, it says those who have authority enjoin people to pray and pay zakat...make them establish these two things!!! go read the Quran, and if you dont find this ayat, then you are right. i dont know the reference from the top of my head.
Its not only a crime to steal, but it is also a crime in islam to sell movies to people which show naked women, half-naked women! that is also a crime...adultery is also a crime, commiting haram intentionally is also a crime, so stealing, murder is all on one side, but in islam other things are crimes as i mentioned above. yes if a person who claims he is muslim, 'purposely' doesnt pray that is a major crime, if a person dont want to pray, dont want to fast, then say i aint muslim and nobody can enforce anything upon you. you cant say you are muslim when you dont do anything a muslim is supposed to do. what does islam mean, submit to Allahs will...and what does that mean, you reject your own will...and that also means you are bound by something called LIMITS. so that is islam basically, we have limits, which you dont cross, so you cannot sleep when you want, eat what you want, and this is life...and that is the test. its not even that hard, Allah made it easy for us, simple..we make it complicated.
Yes mad scientist is right, that see what they do...how can you judge when nothing has been implemented yet. see whether islamic law will make things better for people, many have been demanding islamic law in NWFP
Re: Terrible news from NWFP…
It means that the Laws of the Sole Sovereign, the Shariah, should be implemented And if someone breaks any of the laws he ought to be punished.
How is a sin supposed to be any different from a crime? The five pillars of Islam are Allah’s rights on you, as a Muslim. In order to be a first class citizen of a Muslim State you ought to make sure you fulfill those five duties. Its exactly the same as not paying taxes in a secular state.
Re: Terrible news from NWFP...
I heard this is already causing rifts b/w the MMA...
Re: Terrible news from NWFP…
Some Islamic laws need to be changed or reinterpreted so that they are not abused. This law is going to be another way for the Mullah and religous bigots in our society to harass innocent people.
Imagine a person who has never harmed anyone, doesnt pray,but is still a good law abiding individual. Now this person is a criminal! This is exactly what will happen.
I also dont beleive this is all that Islamic either. The self appointed guardians of faith may think so, but why must we all be beholden to their stupid narrow interpretation of the faith?
And a sin is not always a crime. Since when is leaving your bussiness open during prayer a crime? Might be a sin in some circles, but not a crime. Since when is not praying a crime, sin yes crime no..
A first class citizen! Thats an individual interpretation. I think as long as im not bothering anyone else, not preventing anyone from praying or not, im being a good memeber of this so called muslim society…
Re: Terrible news from NWFP…
I hope so…
Re: Terrible news from NWFP…
In a well known narration the Prophet (sas) said: “Had it not been for the women and the children present therein, i would have burnt the houses of those men who do not show up in the Masjids for prayer.”
Buraidah reported that the Prophet, upon whom be peace, said, “The pact between us and them is prayer. Whoever abandons it is a disbeliever.” (Related by Ahmad, Abu Dawud, at-Tirmidhi, anNasa’i and Ibn Majah.)
Ibn 'Umar related that the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be peace, said, “I have been ordered to kill the people until they testify that there is no god except Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay the zakah. If they do that, their blood and wealth are protected from me save by the rights of Islam. Their reckoning will be with Allah.” (Related by al-Bukhari and Muslim.)
What do the above ahadeeth signify? Figure it out yourself.
And lastly by “first class citizen” i meant Muslims. In a Islamic State, muslims have more rights that unbelievers, and her hence complete and first class citizens of the state.
Re: Terrible news from NWFP...
Wow... Its no wonder I dont really care for Islam with quotes like that.
Anyways, so now we are to believe that the Prophet would support burnign someone for not praying!
Did your prophet actually execute those who did not pray? What was the actual punishment for not praying?
Re: Terrible news from NWFP…
So I dont have any right to live in my country in peace if I dont want to be apart of this Ummah?
Amd the reason I judge is based on other such “Islamic” laws. Its no denying that Islamic laws have been abused in Pakistan. And there is no way to change them now. Same will happen with this. Tommorow, any to, Dick or Abdullah can accuse one of his neighbors of not praying or maybe ven god forbid not turning of the tv when the Azaan is given. Next thing you now the religous police comes crashing through his negibors door, and throws him in prison without any proof… Mark my words buddy, this is Islam in Pakistan, its less Islam and more evil.
Re: Terrible news from NWFP…
Iam sorry I was under the impression that you were a muslim, other wise i would have talked to you in a different tone. Iam out.
Lakum deenukum waliyadeen.