Re: Terrible news from NWFP…
See, now I remember why I abandoned this forum after vigorous debates. Everyone resorts to petty arguments, which usually are of the nature “I am Punjabi, I’m superior” or “I am Pushtun, and therefore a better muslim, and therefore superior”.
Hi, I am memon, and I’m better than all of you people! :bash:
Now shutup, and lets talk about the Hisbah bill and its potential consequences and what is being done to promote and to stop it.
Re: Terrible news from NWFP…
No one is proposing that any person is better than any other person. But how dare you make such a big claim?
As for Hisba bill, it is all in the hands of “invisible forces”. MMA is a hodge-podge of religious parties with ideologies so conflicting that they are not even ready to say prayers in the same m…osque. But as much important is northwestern Pakistan and southeastern Afghanistan to the architects of strategic depths so much vital is the presence of fanatic MMA, to them, in that area. In actuality, mullahs are like sandbags behind which there are invisible forces calling shots. Another great game is being played on Pashtun land, this time ot is being the Sino-Arab-Pakistani nexus versus the West.
Anyhow, I don’t think the real mentors of MMA wouldn’t allow it to sanction that bill. Neither the MMA seems sincere. It is just an stunt for the forthcoming local bodies election, which MMA is contesting as Muthida Khidmati Amal. If passed, this will have implications beyond NWFP into the rest of Pakistan and impacts beyond Durand Line. The population wouldn’t tolerate the bill for long.
By the way where is that thread about Durand Line and the conquering and occupation of Pashtuns by “Pakistan”?
Re: Terrible news from NWFP…
Thats Bull. You are accusing us as though we personally came an kicked you in the ass.. You know aswell as everyojne else that we here never condoned Punjabi Hegmony as you percieve it.. You just ranting and raving because your anger and blind hatred prevents you from seeing reality and all you can do is curse and bang your head on the screen.
You need to calm down. Fact of the matter is that this is a horrible step and no sane person in Pakistan would condne such a law. No one is saying blow up Pashtoons for wanting such a law, were simply looking on as another horrible law is passed in the country..
Re: Terrible news from NWFP…
With language like this, your gonna end up getting youself banned, and then your gonna blame the Punjabis for conspiring against you.. Your really a strange person Warrior saab.. Honestly, I hope you do get your freedomn from us Punjabis, so you can live in the relative peace of being the majority in Afghanistan.
Re: Terrible news from NWFP…
Rapes happen everywhere, even in your Paktoonkhwa or whatever you call it…
But when we try to change these laws which victimize the victim of such crimes, people like the MMA, who happen to be the majority in Pakhtoonkhawa threaten to call nation wide strikes…
Re: Terrible news from NWFP…
We get certain people who turn these forums into trash festivals…
BTW, you forgot to mention “Im Pusthoon, im a better muslim, im white therefore im superior.” Forgot the racist aspect aswell…
Anyways, Hisbah bill will mean that now everyone is going to be under the control of religous police. If your not praying when your supposed to, if your out with your wife and she is not covered, or you dont have your nikah papers that means your commiting a sin and thus a crime. If you dont close your bussiness during prayers time, if your not stopping to allow passengers to pary if your bus driver your commiting a sin… Basically, religous police running a religous state.
MMA has already destroyed whatever good there was in NWFP, their against culture, any kind of music, or relgious freedom, this just cements that control.
And as you know, whenever religous motivated laws like this are passed in Pakistan, they are impposible to remove.
Re: Terrible news from NWFP…
Its rather hypocritcal to site the Constitution which the govt itself has little respect for.. But whatever, ends justify the means..
Re: Terrible news from NWFP...
These two are key points indeed:
Once the religious laws are in place, they are hard to remove. Furthermore, what bothers me about the Hisbah laws are that they're very vague. Like it literally says that if anyone does anything to ruin the reputation of the said representative, then that person can be thrown in jail. So what exactly constitutes ruining the reputation of a representative?
You're right, the government does not have much respect for the constitution (well, most members of the gov't). But if you're going to have an offshoot group making up their own constitution, which is what the Hisbah laws basically are, for one province, as if that province is its own country, then you have to invoke the constitution. There's no other way about it. The argument needs to be - here we have the national constitution. Every province is obligated to follow it. And every province is obligated to work to enforce it. Instead of enforcing the laws that are already there, these mullahs have rehashed the same laws, presented the laws in just a more vague way, and have created a separate religious police to go with it.
So what they've really done, is create a police force that has the power to be in everybody's personal business. Now since when the hell is that Islamic?
These people forget that even in Islam, the State has a certain set of rights and one of them is that they don't have the right to impede on anyone's privacy. Some things are meant to be between God and an individual human. State doesn't have any religious right to interfere.
Re: Terrible news from NWFP…
This is a very interesting story to follow. Turns out that now the State is thinking of imposing governor’s rule in NWFP if MMA continues to not listen.
Despite being rejected by the IIC, which is the only institution in the country allowed to make an official determination if a law is in line with Islam or not, the MMA are still putting the bill in Parliament.
First off, I can’t believe that these ignorants would have the nerve not to go thru proper procedures themselves. It absolutely INFURIATES me that people can be so ignorant and jaahil and most of all so convinced that they are right and everyone else is wrong.
I do hope that governor’s rule is established in NWFP. Creating a state within a state is the most ridiculous thing I’ve heard of. I’m surprised Mushy hasn’t ordered all the main members of MMA to be shot.
Of course, MMA is threatening that no MMA member will tolerate it if the governor’s rule is established.
Re: Terrible news from NWFP...
Oh God, if you exist, I wish for a Civil War.
Finally what has kept us slaves (mullahs) might become the reason for our struggle towards independence from sister raping, gang raping, nude parading, porno making, lesbian producing, gay parading, mujra naching, notankistan.
Fraudia, if you close the supply of londaz from Texla and Pindi, londay bazi in NWFP will die within 24hrs.
Re: Terrible news from NWFP...
^ and now are you any better than Fraudz for having uttered that insult? No.
So unless you really have something insightful to say about these laws, please refrain from hitting reply.
Who are the moderators here by the way? :-|
Re: Terrible news from NWFP...
I'm just a poster unlike Fraudia who is a business partner in this whole Pak.org thing.....but hey at least I spoke the truth.
Re: Terrible news from NWFP…
Yeah, some of theposts have been rather dispicable…
Re: Terrible news from NWFP...
oh daym, haris zuberi is manning this zoo on his own.
Re: Terrible news from NWFP...
Logo and Warrior, bros, please don't be offensive anymore from now onwards. We should write on our own forums rather than engaging with these people in useless discussions. I myself responded somewhat offensively because this forum included a thread on Durand Line that was very insulting. Moreover, from my interaction with these fellow "countrymen", I've found them interesting. They think that by insulting and humuliating others, they themselves can become dignified. They will stereotype you. I myself read an essay by a Pakistani intelligence operative that said that Ahmad Shah Abdali was a Talib and that Pashtun Society is a society of Taliban, so it is natural for Pashtuns to be ruled by Taliban. Now this ******* was stereotyping the entire Pashtun history.
True Pashtuns are conservative but only in rural and tribal sense as every tribal/rural community can be. One cannot find even one instance except Mullah Ummar and Taliban when Pashtun leaders were Mullahs. And Mullah Ummar and Taliban are the creation of Paki establishment.
Look at the official Pakistani media! It is the world most irresponsible media, absolutely foulmouthed and insane when it comes to ethnic/cultural sensitivities of others! They would call Hindus coward and cunning whereas Hindus are one of the minorities of Pakistan.
Anyhow, we should be respectful to others and shouldn't generalize things about whole communities. All are respectable people whether Sindhis, Punjabis, etc.
As for governer rule, then Pakistan should be ready for another 1971 like situation. In whatever way Mullahs got elevated to power but only the way in which a change should be brought must be a political-democratic way. All nationalistic/liberal forces are one voice on this issue.
Re: Terrible news from NWFP...
*it is not a good idea to introduce governer rule. *
I think MMA shud revise the bill once again. It is a very vague one. There are several flaws. And it is not really in line with shariah or islamic laws. it shud have been made in consultation from the best and most educated islamic scholars.
Re: Terrible news from NWFP...
Warrior and Logo Bro, I request you not to be radical/offensive...the same restrain as on khyberwatch. thank you.
Re: Terrible news from NWFP…
http://www.dawn.com/2005/07/14/nat33.htm
PESHAWAR, July 13: The All Pakistan Minorities Alliance (APMA) on Wednesday held a protest demonstration against the controversial Hasba bill tabled by the Muttahida Majlis-i-Amal government. The alliance’s central leaders Pervaiz Rafique and Naveed Amir expressed their concern at the bill tabled in the NWFP Assembly on Monday and termed it ‘unconstitutional’ and ‘discriminatory against minorities’.
They held the demo in front of the NWFP Assembly with women and children chained, symbolizing what they thought would be the scenario after the enactment of the Hasba Law.
They said that minorities and other weaker sections of society would be victimized once the bill was passed into a law.
The demonstrators rejected the bill as ‘undemocratic’ which they said would pave the way for the Talibanization of the province.
The APMA appealed to Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz to play his role to stop the enactment of the Hasba bill.
They said that the enactment of the law would divide people on the basis of religion.
They feared that the MMA government would use the Hasba force or police to victimize women, minorities and political opponents.
The protesters said they felt insecure and marginalized due to “such dreadful and black laws”.
“The Hasba bill is against the spirit of justice. Besides, the establishment of Hasba institution will also be a burden on the national exchequer.”
The demonstrators demanded that the president and prime minister of Pakistan intervene and stop enactment of this law in the province.
Re: Terrible news from NWFP…
Another article today…
Lawyers divided on Hasba bill
http://www.dawn.com/2005/07/14/nat34.htm
Bureau Report
PESHAWAR, July 13: With a visible split among the lawyers’ community here over the Hasba bill, a meeting of the Peshawar High Court Bar Association was adjourned on Wednesday amid speeches for and against the bill. The meeting, held with the association’s vice-president Hidayatullah Afridi in the chair, decided after discussion of more than two hours to meet again on July 14 (Thursday) for adopting a resolution regarding the proposed Hasba law.
Qazi Muhammad Anwer, Barrister Masood Kausar, Barrister Bacchaa, Lateef Afridi, Said Tahar Khan, Hidayatullah Muhammadzai, Waris Khan, Fida Gul, Ghulam Nabi, and others addressed the meeting.
The lawyers affiliated with the Jamaat-i-Islami said that the proposed law was in conformity with the Constitution and Islamic injunctions and it should not be opposed “just for the sake of opposition”.
“The bill is almost identical to that of the federal and Punjab laws regarding the institution of ombudsman and there are only a few minor changes in it,” said Ghulam Nabi.
He added that the right of appeal was given in the law and nowhere was it mentioned that the mohtasib would exercise judicial powers except that of contempt of court.
Denouncing the bill, Qazi Muhammad Anwer said this was an extreme adventure on part of the Muttahida Majlis-i-Amal government. “The proposed law will undo various institutions as laws are already present about most of the issues mentioned in the bill,” he said.
Mr Anwer said that wide-ranging powers had been assigned to the mohtasib under section 10 and 23 of the bill.
He added that nowhere the institution of mohtasib enjoyed such powers as the mohtasib mentioned in the Hasba bill would head a stick-wielding force, imposing its own brand of Islam.
Barrister Masood Kausar said the Constitution of Pakistan included the concurrent and federal legislative lists and the provincial assembly had no powers to legislate in the domain of the federal legislation.
He said the laws were already there. The only thing the government had to do was to strengthen the existing institutions for effective implementation.
Lateef Afridi said that the proposed law would isolate the Pukhtoons across the world with everyone being dubbed Taliban. He added that the Pukhtoons had already been passing through a crucial phase of history.
Re: Terrible news from NWFP...
All the degenerates better stay clear of Sarhad.....