Teree Vijaay haain!!!

Arts & Culture History
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Okay just for Southie… :cb:

Guys I am not entirely fammiliar with the Mahabharatha I know it’s among the worlds oldest and longest poems, and I have read it time and again, but perhaps I never will relate to it much, it’s a very interesting but alien story to me…

So just to help me out and to help our learning of this epic can anyone care to discuss it and summarise the poem, historically it would aslo be interesting to relate to the facts if any…

I believe it is a poem based on a genuine event, however were the charecters all native to the Subcontinent or are there any protaganists from outside?

Is it a possible refference to an Aryan invasion or other ancient armegadon?

What do you know about it and whats your views on it?

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Well mahabharat is about karmyuth i.e. conflicts of karma/duties. Most of mahabharat narrates the story of the great war fought between relatives who were good people.
In indian 'mythology' they dont show someone as truely evil or bad instead they show how their actions were driven by circumstances and it even criticizes the gods.

Five brothers i.e. pandavas fought against their 100 cousions for a piece of land. it does have characters from different worlds may not be from other civilizations. The historical perspective of mahabharat is that a lot of 'castes' derive their heros from mahabharat hence shaping the society, a lot of cities have gotton their name, a lot of places believe that they were part of the story hence have tourists coming to them for pilligrimages etc.
It makes an interesting read and certainly good tv serial to watch.

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Oh btw, it has characters from present day afghanistan too. Queen gandhari was from present day kandhar and so on

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Aah thanks for the insight... I guessed it was a spectacular period.

I know that there are many sites across the Subcontinent that are known as being part of the Mahabaratha story... In fact the battefield of Panipat is close to a iron age fort that is supposedly of Mahbaratha times.

Thing is was this a clash of history?

Did two or more civilisations come to a head?

It's very intruiging but some will tell you that its all Myth and Legend.. however I believe personally that it was an event that has been superimposed in a sort of Munroe effect.

I guess it's comparable to the Biblical Argmegadon, that was in fact the battle of Meggido, and the ancient Persian battle of Cunaxa that was what spawned the Xenephon story and many Greeco Roman legends.

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I have no doubt in my mind that it happened. All the places it mentions still exist with locals having those stories as folk lores. but at the same time i believe that ancient historians tended to exaggerate a lot, a man jumping from 6 ft would be written as flying man etc. if you mellow it down to a realistic level then you will find that it is very believable story.

Mahabharata has people from then known world on earth and it has tons of people from unknown worlds. Basically it was a clash between people from same family hence no clash of civilizations.

you might find it interesting though that a lot of mahabharat and ramayan has similarities with greek mythologies. Mahabharat mentions a solar eclipse and someone has calculated its exact time line and day when that battle was fought. you can find it on google somewhere.

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Fais Bhai,

No quetion of whether it was a reality or a mythical.It was a real one.

As regards to Mahabharatha...

I believe this was an incident between two Aryan sects.Obviously their forefathers were outsiders,migrated to Sindhuvarsh ,settled down here .

Whereas Ramayana

As regards to the war between Rama's forces and Ravana's forces it was a war between Aryan's and Dravida's...

If you go through the ever glittering part of `Geethopedesha' ,the most striking aspect that will come in to your mind is,each and every thing in this universe has been detailed out in that.

I am more intereted in talking about Mahabaratha and you may find it surprising that my real hero in the entire epic,putting aside Lord Krishna,it is the villain Duryodhana.It's purely because of the reason that Duryodhana having enjoyed all the luxurious life a person can have on this earth,fought gallantly in the epic war ,well -within the frames of rules of the war that had been laid out before the war,outlived the war and died as a real hero.He was cheated in the duel and only then he was grounded.But he was the first person to reach the the great heaven ,welll before the Pandavas who had sided with Lord Krishna...He was showered with flowers from heaven while he was having his last breath .Though the entire world depicted him as a cruel king(because the way he treated his half brothers Pandavas) .he was immortalised because of his bravery and his royal death. It says only one thing...... DO YOUR DUTY AND GOD WILL TAKE CARE OF THE REST.

Again the supernatural aspects detailed in both epics can not be perceived in a layman's way of perceiving wit and wisdom.Those who can control their `Indriya's' or senses can easily achieve all those things. even now....... They can fly,they can travel faster than light and sound,they can change their forms etc..It's the same with Koran ,Bible or any other holy book :)

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Let me tell you one thing... I am heavily depended on Mahabharatha and Geetha... Each and everything in this universe ,including cloning has been described in that.But to me the core of Geetha is.........

DO YOUR DUTY ..NIO MATTER WHERE YOU WHO YOU ARE AND WHOM YOU ARE FACING.......

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^^ My fav is Karna. he is the real deal.
or may be bhishma.

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^^

it has be karna.also eklavya was the best bowman

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You can say that also. But when it comes to Duryodhan, he never had a blotch on his luxurious life.

Karna was adopted(river incident)and he came to Kaurava side after Duryodhana blatantly offered him a kingdom after watching his battling skills.

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Waah very deep philosophical point there. I am interested by Arlietter bhai's choice of Duryodhana as a hero, but your right he is an archetype anti-hero figure.

This bit is most entriguing... :)

My knowledge of the Mahbharata is very weak and probably not as deep as you guys... however I love the epic nature of the story of the rise and fall of the great Aryans and Dravidans... indeed it seems to be a lasting legacy of some long ago conflict that seems to be very simmilar to other stories as some have mentioned above.

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Faris Bhai,years ago when I landed in Bali(Indonesia),I was mesmerised by the way the Hindus regarded Mahabharata and it's heroes.The way it has made it's effects on their life and folklore... Now after a countless visits I begin to realize the fact that the core of Mahabharata or any other `Hundudharma' is well perceived not in India but in the Far East. :)

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Yeah your right the Far East is always a place where the spiritual and the ancestral past come together with the living... :)

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I wonder if Southie has even seen this thread yet… :konfused:

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Hello Faris - just read this thread. I am humbled you decided to start this.

Duryodhana has a special place in my heart - he embraced Karna when Bhima ridiculed him as Sut putra (son of a charioteer). Have imense respect for Karna - who had been dealt a bad hand right from birth, but did his duty till death. Who knew he had to battle his yonger brothers (Pandavas) but did so. Love Ekalavya, a person of low caste who gave his finger away to his Guru Drona. Bhishma - who sacrificied his life for those around him.

More later - Thanks again :)

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Rather than go to google and cut/paste, I thought it may be better to write down one's understanding of the epic. Here is a start, based on what I can recall.
The head of the Kuru Vansh (dynasty) was Santanu. He had one son, who later on became known as Bhishma. Santanu fell in love with Ganga, who agreed to marry him if her son was made the king upon Santanu's death. Subsequent events led to Bhishma taking a vow never to marry, so that his younger brother's kids could inherit the throne. While trying to get a bride for his younger brother, he wins the hand of 3 sisters Amba, Ambika and Ambalika. But one of the sisters (Amba?) is rejected by all, and turns to Bhishma. However, Bhishma having taken a vow never to marry, had to reject her. Out of anger, Amba does penance, and is granted her wish to be reborn as a man, known as Sikhandin, to kill Bhishma. In the meantime, one of the sisters gave birth to Dhritarashtra and Pandu, while the other sister's maid gave birth to Vidura, who thus was a cousin to Dhritarashtra and Pandu. Dhritarashtra, the elder brother was born blind, hence Pandu performed the daily duties of ruling the kingdom. (I may have missed a generation here - but am recollecting from 30 years ago, so help me God).

Dhritarashtra's wife, the noble Gandhari, tied a cloth around her eyes so that she also could see only what her beloved husband could see. Gabndhari gave birth too 100 sons, known as Kauravas, the eldest of whom was Duryodhana. There was also another son (possibly through a maid), whose name was Yuyutsu. So technically, there were 101 sons of Dhritarashtra.

Pandu married Kunti and Madri, the latter being younger. One day, Pandu and Madri were relaxing in the forest (Ban or Van). They saw a beautiful male and female deer engaging in the act of love. Pandu shot the male deer (or both). Upon being struck, the deer took their original form (of devas/gods) and cursed him - "you shall never enjoy marital bliss. If you do, you will die".

Years ago, Kunti had been given a boon by sage Durvasa that she will have children through various gods - Yama (Death) Vayu (wind), Indra (rain?), and two other gods. (There was one more son, but patience please!)

Now that Pandu had been cursed, Kunti invoked her powers to be blessed with Yudhishtira (Dharmaputra, son of Yama), Bhima (wind), Arjun (Indra). She also helped Madri conceive twins Nakula and Sahadeva. Nakula was great with horses, while Sahadeva was a superb swordsman (like our Faris!) Yudhisthira was known as Dharmaputra, because he never swerved from the path of righteousness/Dharma. His weapon of choice was a javelin. Bhima was extremely strong, and his weapon was a mace (gadha). Arjuna was an excellent archer, in the same class as Rama and Krishna.These 5 were the Pancha Pandavas.

Now you have been introduced to the Kauravas and Pandavas, who went on to fight the battle of Kurukshetra.

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Aaaw no need to be humbled as Mod it’s my duty to present topics that are interesting and helpfull to us all… and I am humbled that people like yourself grace this forum with your presence and make my work seem worthy. :slight_smile:

As for you interpretation I find it very interesting.

So from the general gist of things the Mahabharata seems to suggest that the Great War of the Fammilies was like a mythical Mob fight between Clans? This is most intriguing becuase I have always thought the Mahabharatha was an epic that might explain an Ancient and perhaps lost story of an Invasion of India. However it seems that the Invaders might have had elements in India long before the story itself and suggest rather than a sweeping invasion like D-day or the Mongol hordes… the Aryans seemed to have creeped and slinked into the Subcontinent in stages over a long period of time… more akin to the gradual spread of Russia or the British empire.

It is very interesting indeed becuase from a Historical perspective the Mahabharata seems to give a lot of clues to India’s past. A lot of Myths and Legends have some Historical basis… for example the Biblical Hebrew word Armagedon comes from the battle of Meggido, the Spartacus revolt and other battles much later also spread various Legends and Myths from secret societies to whole races. Perhaps the Mahabharata as some have suggested in the past is a record of an actual event which has become misted in the telling and retelling down the ages. :hmmm:

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^ Faris, I think you interpreted it quite well. I have never given any thought to the historic aspect, but between you, Kaka et al, you guys have connected the dots very nicely.

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Years earlier, Kunti, a 16 year old, got a boon from Durvase Maharishi, as stated above. Her first child was through the Sun god (Surya). The boy was born with earrings (kavach kundal). Out of panic, Kunti placed the boy (Karna) in a basket and placed the basket on a stream/river. The boy was found by a charioteer, who took the child to his wife Radha. The boy grew up as Radheya (son of Radha).

Meanwhile, Pandu was overcome with passion for Madri one spring day, and he succumbed to the curse. Grief-stricken, Madri gave her life up, and entrusted her sons to Kunti. Kunti brought up the twins as her own, and the elder 3 brothers ensured the twins were always protected.

Thus, the Kauravas and Pandavas grew up in Hastinapura, the capital of their kingdom.

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Bhima, the strongest of the lot, would bully the Kauravas (esp Duryodhana) who grew to resent him. As the kids grew, the Pandavas were the apple of everyone's eye, with Arjuna being Dronacharya's pet due to his archery skills. This built up resentments further. The resentment was further fed by evil folks such as Duryodhana's maternal uncle Sakuni. Duryodhnana was also insulted by Draupadi when he went to visit the Pandavas (Draupadi being the Pandavas' wife). In a game of dice, Duryodhana defeated Yudhisthira, who had pledged his kingdom and all his loved ones. In the open assembly, Dushasan (Duryodhana's younger brother) disrobed Draupadi (who was saved by Krishna appearing from out of the blue). Bhima swore he will drink Dushasana's blood and break Duryodhana's thighs with his gadha. The Pandavas were sent for 12 years Vanavas, followed by 13th year of being incognito. After 13 years, the Pandavas came back to ask for their kingdom. To this, Duryodhana responded, you will not even get land corresponding to a needle's point. This led to the Mahabharat in Kurukshetra. Brothers were pitted against brothers (sounds familiar?), uncles vs nephews, teachers vs students.

The Kauravas were led by Bhishma, who was felled on the 9th day by Shikhandin through a ruse by Krishna. Krishna suggesed Arjuna use Sikhandin as a shield and atttack Bhishma. Since Sikhandin was born a woman (pay attention guys, remember Amba et al?), Bhishma laid down his arms. Both Sikhandin and Arjuna rained arrows. However, Bhishma could recognize Arjuna's arrows, since they pierced him with the ferocity that could only originate from Arjuna's Gandiva (name of his famous bow) - (the one Faris has on his current Avatar!)

The next general was Drona, who was felled by Dhristadyumna. Dushasan's blood was drunk by Bhima. Karna was next. Then Ashwattama (Drona's son) led the Kaurava army. With the Kaurava army routed, Duryodhana went to a lake to mourn his brothers and loved ones. There, he was killed by Bhima, who took his mace below the belt to Duryodhana's thigh (illegal).

Thus was the war won, using illegal means.

In the next 2-3 posts, I will capture the key characters, what made them great. Those values/qualities are something that will be appreciated anytime, anyplace.