Lets clear one thing first - I am not questioning the greatness of Tendulkar. He is obviously a super batsman. But looking at the below statistics of Kallis & Ponting , I wonder why they (Kallis especially) are not talked about as often and in as glorious terms as Tendulkar . I guess its only because Kallis does not have a billion followers.
Also if one considers that Kallis performs not just with the bat but also with the ball and that both Kallis & Ponting don’t play on batting friendly subcontinental wickets as much as Tendulkar - their numbers seem even more impressive.
**Jacques Kallis **
Test Matches Played: 125 Batting Average : 55.06 Bowling Average : 30.92 (245 Wickets)
ODIs Played : 283 Batting Average : 45.27 Bowling Average : 31.45 (244 Wickets)
Ricky Ponting
Test Matches Played: 125 Batting Average : 57.18
ODIs Played : 301 Batting Average : 43.24
Sachin Tendulkar
Test Matches Played: 155 Batting Average : 54.68
ODIs Played : 419 Batting Average : 44.26
btw, I know there are also other players with similar averages but for this comparison I am only considering players who have played at least 120-125 Test Matches.
off course you already told the reason (Kallis does not have billion followers)
on the same account I sometime wonder why so much hype for KP? I mean right he is an entertaining cricketer but … may be because he is the best england has to offer?
Kallis is one of the best All rounders in Cricket.. Test or ODI.
I would say Sachin is better than both these 2 not only because he has single handedly won a lot of games (Ponting has done that, not so much with Kallis) but also he has kept that average for a LOT MORE number of games.
Kallis is one of the best All rounders in Cricket.. Test or ODI.
I would say Sachin is better than both these 2 not only because he has single handedly won a lot of games (Ponting has done that, not so much with Kallis) but also he has kept that average for a LOT MORE number of games.
I dont know where your facts are coming from but here are the averages of players in games WON by their countries
Inzamam 78.16
dravid 66.40
tendulkar 63.76
Kallis 63.00
Ponting 62.98
Inzi FAR ahead of everyone else while 10Dulkar is at #3 only fractions ahead of Kallis and Ponting. On top of all this take into account that Kallis is almost used as a regular bowler and also the wickets that some1 has mentioned.
Lets clear one thing first - I am not questioning the greatness of Tendulkar. He is obviously a super batsman. But looking at the below statistics of Kallis & Ponting , I wonder why they (Kallis especially) are not talked about as often and in as glorious terms as Tendulkar . I guess its only because Kallis does not have a billion followers.
Also if one considers that Kallis performs not just with the bat but also with the ball and that both Kallis & Ponting don't play on batting friendly subcontinental wickets as much as Tendulkar - their numbers seem even more impressive.
Jacques Kallis **
Test Matches Played: **125 Batting Average : 55.06 Bowling Average : 30.92 (245 Wickets)
ODIs Played : 283 Batting Average : 45.27 Bowling Average : 31.45 (244 Wickets)
Ricky Ponting
Test Matches Played: 125 Batting Average : 57.18
ODIs Played : 301 Batting Average : 43.24
Sachin Tendulkar
Test Matches Played: 155 Batting Average : 54.68
ODIs Played : 419 Batting Average : 44.26
btw, I know there are also other players with similar averages but for this comparison I am only considering players who have played at least 120-125 Test Matches.
Look at other stats like total runs, total number of centuries etc. and you will get your answer.
Look at other stats like total runs, total number of centuries etc. and you will get your answer.
With all due respects, "average" is by far the most accurate indicator of performance.
The absolute "totals" are obviously influenced by number of games played , which in case of Tendulkar is at least 30 Test Matches more than Kallis/Ponting.
Logivity of their career and the type of opponent they faced. I think tendulkar scores in that.
You are right about longevity of career but I am not so sure about the other part. Are you saying Kallis & Ponting scored more runs against weak opponents ?
With all due respects, "average" is by far the most accurate indicator of performance.
The absolute "totals" are obviously influenced by number of games played , which in case of Tendulkar is at least 30 Test Matches more than Kallis/Ponting.
If the totals are more with the same average then the guy with the more totals is better since he was able to manage that for a longer period of time.
With all due respects, "average" is by far the most accurate indicator of performance.
The absolute "totals" are obviously influenced by number of games played , which in case of Tendulkar is at least 30 Test Matches more than Kallis/Ponting.
Its easy to generate a high average in relatively fewer games, but very difficult to maintain it in a career as along as Tendulkar.
^How come you are quiet about the other aspect - that Tendulkar has batted much more on dead batting friendly subcontinental wickets than either Kallis or Ponting.
^
Relatively fewer games i.e. 125 vs. 155 OR 283/301 vs.419
First of all after playing 125 games, its very hard for your average to drop anyway (unless you keep on taking golden duck for 10/15 games) so theory of "maintain in a long term" does not live.
For argument sake if we assume that this theory is right then even by your own logic, Kallis and Ponting made "relatively" fewer runs by playing "relatively" fewer game.
You are right about longevity of career but I am not so sure about the other part. Are you saying Kallis & Ponting scored more runs against weak opponents ?
its a tricky thing, because Kallis never had to face Pollock, Donald or himself and Ponting never had to face Macgrath, Warne, gillespie etc.
Tendulkar carried the batting for Indian in the much of early 90s, with hardly any support in bowling front too. Kallis or Ponting had a team set to dominate their opponent. They had an allround team that was equally good in bowling and batting. For tendulkar the pressure to perform was much higher.
In these circumstances I would compare him to Lara.
^How come you are quiet about the other aspect - that Tendulkar has batted much more on dead batting friendly subcontinental wickets than either Kallis or Ponting.
Thats pretty much neutralised by him having faced the best bowlers of the day (including Donald, McGrath, Warne, Gillespie, Pollock etc.) that neither Kallis nor Ponting faced.
I wonder why they (Kallis especially) are not talked about as often and in as glorious terms as Tendulkar . I guess its only because Kallis does not have a billion followers.
No it is because Kallis gets his runs very slowly and is boring to watch
SR of just 43.87 in tests though he has a respectable SR in ODIs (71.55)
The Caribbean population is not huge but the whole world was mad about SirViv Richards (I confess to being one as a teenager). I rate him as the greatest batsman of my time. No one could/can bat like him. He was simply awesome. He had a certain presence at the crease.
You are right about longevity of career but I am not so sure about the other part. Are you saying Kallis & Ponting scored more runs against weak opponents ?
Longevity of career can also be a plus point if you are a good enough player at international level. It is esp. so if you get to play a lot during your peak years (say b/w the ages of 24 & 34). When it comes to setting or breaking records, players from Australia, India and England (who all play 12-16 tests/year) are definitely at an advantage compared to players from Pakistan or NZ who traditionally play 7 or 8 tests per year (certainly not more than 10 tests per year).
Even Tendulkar went thru a slump in form b/w 2003-2006 but because he played so many games and scored so heavily during the 90s i.e. his peak years he was still able to mantain a high enough overall average during that period.
Just to give you a PAK example, Imran Khan played just 88 tests in a career spanning 21 years (1971-1992). Mc Grath on the other hand played 124 tests in just 14 years, mostly in his peak years. Ponting has played 126 tests in 13 years. Pakistan played even less cricket during the 70s and 80s, Imran's peak years. If Imran had the same opportunities as Mc Grath, goodness knows where he might have ended up despite missing two years due to stress fracture (1983-1985)
may be because he is the best england has to offer?