Technical issues of writing

[Amal]

@darwesh

Although…our Mods, should help or correct/suggest our creations,
and its a healthy trend by zamil… I have done that “Jisarat” in the
past..but got cold shoulder, I think in this forum, we must help each other
and feel fortunate for such interactions.
I will appreciate if some friend provide me some healthy criticism, instead of
just wah wah…we should have a dialouge about a particular creation.

There are a few things that must be taken into consideration when it comes to correcting someone. First thing is that every single writer has got a style of its own. And it all depends as how you go through every single piece and understand it from the writer’s point of view rather than seeing it from your own perspective.

For instance, I can identify from the matla alone if a particular ghazal belonged to Bashir Badr. You can give me a poem and I will tell you if it is written by Amjad Islam Amjad or not. Likewise, you can identify Sahir Ludhyanvi, Faiz Ahmed Faiz and and you never make a mistake when it comes to Parvin Shakir. Why? Because these people write in a style of their own. Everyone does so. But if I develope an unchanging addict to Faiz’s style, I will start finding faults with Parvin Shakir.

If you read everything from your own style of writing, rather than just being a reader, than even if I give you a piece of Ahmed Faraz, you will easily find a few problems in it.

I give you the reference of **Shahana’**s poem - Aansu - from where this discussion originated. Shahana wrote this peom in her first year, it wasn’t bad at all. I can bet even if she herself want to do it again, she can make it a lot better now. But she posted it just as it is for us to read, and not to make it better. I do not see anything terribly wrong with a poem of hers which she wrote as early as in her first year in college. I have read more of her work and she doesn’t look like someone who is still in her first year. I am sure if she wants to be judged, she would give us something new from her creation and not something that was written many years ago.

**My point: **read it from a reader’s eye and not from a writer’s eye.

I will add more to it later.

[Amal]

Re: Technical issues of writing

If anyone is interested, post a guide how to write poetry. Or everyone can post some thoughts on how new writers should write which would be helpful to them :)

[Zamil]

Re: Technical issues of writing

Amal G! Salaam arz hai.
Baat style se ikhtilaaf ki nahi hai. Ye baat to maan-ne waali hai k sab ka apna apna style hota hai. Lekin aik cheez jo tamaam shaa'iron (jin ka zikr aap ne kia n many more) k kalaam mein common hai, wo hai "wazan" aur "flow".
Ye poetry ki technical requirements hain jo poetry ki definition mein shaamil hain. Shaa'iri aur nasar mein farq hi "wazan" ka hai. Jo she'r balance nahi main to usey she'r maanta hi nahi, saaf baat hai, usey nasar hi kaha jaye ga, bal-k bigrri hui nasar.
Jab ham kisi se islaah lete hain to wo hamaara style nahi banaata bal-k wazan ki khaamiyon ko samjhaata hai ya zyada se zyada hamaari language ko darust kar sakta hai. Style is a God-gifted thing which comes along with the gift of poetry.
So islaah is a technical thing, jis ki zarurat taqreeban sab ko hoti hai.
Isey style impose karna to nahi keh sakte.
Kya khayaal hai !!!

[Zamil]

Re: Technical issues of writing

Aur Shahana g k liye main mention karna bhool gaya tha. Mujhe pata hai un ki wording kitni powerful hai aur un ki grip ka bhi andaaza hai mujhe.
I also know k wo apni khaamiyaan khud door kar sakti hain. Agar is poem ko unhon ne nahi che'rra to yaqeenan she has her reasons. Main bhi kuch jaldi kar gaya. Baad mein socha k starting ki poetry to original shakal mein hi achi lagti hai, jise parrh k insaan bohat kuch yaad karta hai, comparison karta hai. Apni wo na-pukhta state bohat apeal karti hai insaan ko jab wo mature ho jata hai.
Khair g. Khush rahiye Shahana g!

No offence.Bas aamad nahi hui arse se so doosron k kalaam pe taba aazmaai shuru kar d. Don't mind plz.

Apnon ko apni is ada ne hi paraaya kar dia
Jo munh mein aaya keh dia, jo g mein aaya kar dia
Zamil.

[darwesh]

Re: Technical issues of writing

Bhai Amal...khushbash,

I agree with zamil...mera mud'daa unhun ne bayaan kar diya.
Main "style" ki nahi ISSLAAH ki, woh bhi poet ke permission se
SUGGEST karne ki baat karraha tha......
sirf Wah Wah se baat aage nahi barhti, aur phir yeh cheez agar kisi magazine main print hogayee, to bohat der hojayegi... yahan to aakhir tak edit kiya jasakta hai.

Lastly...main ne jab bhi koi nazm post ki...sabhon se request kiya ke
feel free to critise and enjoy also.
Adab ka ek adna tifl e maktab....
Yeh sher apke liye .....

MAKTAB E ISHQ KA DASTOOR NIRALA DEKHA
USKO CHUTTI NA MILE JISKO SABAQ YAAD RAHE !

[Amal]

Re: Technical issues of writing

Jin logoN ko fanni umoor pe aboor haasil hey, meiN ney deikha hey ke wo log aek khaas nuqtey ko aksar aur yaksar faraamosh kar detey heiN. Islaah aur behtari meiN kuch na kuch farq to baar'ha maojood hey. Shaed aap log ittifaaq na kareiN, islaah sey aek mazmoon khud-ba-khud behtar zaoor ho sakta hey, lekin jo bhi shakhs islaah karey ga, wo us mazmoon ko usi zaavye sey deikhey ga aur usi kasoti pe parkhey ga jis pe wo apni tehreeroN ko jaaNchta hey. To aap ka apna style to phir aa gaya na beech meiN.

Doosri baat, jis ka kuch tazkira darwesh sahab ney kia. Meri nazar meiN kisi bhi ustaad ko ya sahib-e-nazar ko us waqt tak kisi ki islaah nahi karni chahiye jab tak ke koi khud islaah ka talib na ho. Piyaasey ko khud kuNweiN ke paas aaney dena chahiye na ke kuNweiN ko piyaasey ke paas jaana chahiye. Internet par jitney forums heiN aur un forums par jitney log shaeri kartey heiN, koi bata sakta hey ke un meiN sey kitney log is ko serious letey heiN? Ya koi ye bata sakta hey ke aksariyat ka likhney ka mayaar kesa hey? Mera nahi khayal ke ye jawaabaat koi bohat hosla-afza hoN ge. Agar koi waqai serious hey, koi haqeeqatan piyaasa hey to wo apna kuNweiN tak zaroor pohNchey ga. Aap isi forum ki pichley aek saal ke threads deikh leiN aur bataaeiN log kitney seriously likhtey heiN, un ka mayaara kya hey aur kis meiN kitni islaah ki zaroorat hey.

Zamil sahab ney apney doosrey reply meiN jis baat ka iqraar kiya hey, meiN usi jaanib ishaara kar raha tha ke aek nazm jo first year meiN kahi gai ho, us ke saath hosla-afzai ke elaawa aur kya kia jaa sakta hey. Secondly agar hum iqraar kartey heiN ke islaah ki zaroorat har kisi ko hoti hey to kya hum har kisi ki islaah kareiN ge? Internet par rozaana kitni poetry post hoti hey, agar hum un sab ki islaah karney beittheiN, to baat kahaN ki kahaN nikal jaey gi. Har nazm ya ghazal meiN kuch na kuch to aesa mil jaata hey jis ki hum taareef kar saktey heiN. Aur is soorat meiN jab ke likhney waala apni tekhleeq mehaz aap ko parrhney ke leeye peysh karey, to kya hum ikhlaaqi tor par is baat ke majaaz heiN ke uski tehreer meiN islaahi pehlu talaash kar ke sar-e-aam unhey numaaya kareiN?

Aek kahaawat hey ke kisi bhookey ko roz'aana machli pakarr kar deney sey behtar hey ke usey khud machli pakarrna sikha diya jaey. Aur meri nazar meiN uska behtar tareeqa ye hey ke aek sahi likhney ke rehnuma osool bataa deeye jaeiN ta ke wo khud un sey mustafeed hota rahey.

Mein aek baar phir kahooN ga ke kisi ki us waqt tak islaah nahi ki jaani chaahiye jab tak ke islaah ke leeye kaha na jaey. A willing learner will find out his teacher from anywhere in the world. An unwilling one will never learn in any case!

I will ad more to it and will especially highlight the need to re-write the curriculum for aspiring writers.

[Zamil]

Re: Technical issues of writing

Salam Arz Hai.
Aap ki ye baat bilkul darust hai k jab tak koi islaah na chaahe, usey islah dena sahi nahi. Main ne jab ye jasaarat ki to do baatein mere zehn mein theen, aik to ye k jis kalaam ko main ne cherra us mein islaah ki gunjaaish bohat kam thi yaani zyaada tabdeeliyon ki zaroorat nahi thi. Doosri baat apnaaiyat ki thi (har kisi ki islaah bhala kaise ki jaa sakti hai) yaani aap logon se apnaaiyat mehsoos hui to apna samajh k ye kar guzra or samjha k aik sahi fankaar hamesha apne andar behtari ki gunjaaish rakhta hai or is gunjaaish ko samajhta hai so wo hamesha is gunjaaish ko pur karne ki will rakhta hai (no matter k kaun keh raha hai, ye dekhta hai k kya keh raha hai). Agar apnaaiyat mehsoos na karta to yaqeenan pehle ijaazat talab karta varna u know k aaj kal kaun kisi k liye dimaagh-sozi karta hai.
Jahan tak "zaaviye aur kasauti" ki baat hai to main ne pehle arz kia k islaah technical points ki hoti hai jo poori duniya k urdu poets k kalaam ki common requirements hain.
Aap ki ye baat bhi bilkul darust hai k insaan ko khud seekhna chaahiye, varna wo paki pakaai khaata rehta hai aur kabhi khud paka nahi sakta.
Main ne apni poori zindagi kisi se islaah nahi li kiyun k main le hi nahi sakta tha. Meri zindagi k 15 saal aik aaisi jaga guzar gaye jahaan koi urdu bolta tha to usey sar se paaon tak hairat se dekha jaata tha. Ghar mein kya, khaandaan mein bhi kabhi koi adbi maahaul nahi dekha. 13 saal ka tha jab pehli ghazal hui jab k kabhi interest hi nahi lia tha. Us ghazal mein qaafia bhi tha, radeef bhi. Pata nahi wo kaise hua tha, shaayad isi ko God-gifted kehte hain.
Main un istalahaat k naam to nahi jaanta jo wazan aur beher ki mad mein istamaal hoti hain so main ne in k liye khud hi kuch nukte waza'
kar liye. Kabhi socha nahi par ab koshish karta hoon k un ko tehreer kar sakoon aur is thread mein post kar sakoon. Itna hi kar sakta hoon main, faaida uthaane waale utha lein ge agar wo nukte kisi qaabil hue to varna aa'ine se to kabhi khauf nahi aaya mujhe.
Chalta hoon.
Rab Raakha:)
Zamil .

[Amal]

Re: Technical issues of writing

See, nobody seems interested in knowing what’s going on here. Who we are catering to than?

[Nickless]

Re: Technical issues of writing

^^ i am listenin intently... actaully readin carefully... id like if you ppl share the rules of writin n all .. the technical points that is.. i mean i write but i am not sure if i knw the basic rules yet.. probably that is one of the reasons i think i cant write..

so plz share..

and baqi style is there but one should know the basicz frst.. dont u think so? .. so yes, plz share..

zamil i am looking forward to all those NuQtaz of urz... cuz i read ur stuff here today and u write very well man!

[Amal]

Re: Technical issues of writing

Nice to know that there are a few takers around :) Nickless, why don't you ask specific questions so that they could be answered to-the-point.

By the way there is a guide already posted on sever forums about how to compose balanced poetry. I am posting that widely-circulated guide here but will post my comments on this guide later:

[quote]

*Sabaq #1.
*

Aisi Salim mucamman bahraiN jo aik rukn ko mukarrar laane se banti heiN, wo 7 heiN jin meiN se aik tark kardi gaiee hai jiska naam Bahr-e-Wafir hai.

Bahr ka naam.................. Rukn ka vazn..........4 bar 1 misreA mein
1) Bahr-e-Rajaz……………..Mus’taf’I’lun…………..””””””””””””””””
2) Bahr-e-hazaj……………..Mafaa’ee’lun…………..”””””””””””””””””
3) Bahr-e-kaamil……………Mu’ta’faa’I’lun………… “””””””””””””””””
4) Bahr-e-Ramal……………Faa’I’laa’tun……………. “””””””””””””””””
5) Bahr-e-Mutaqaarib….. Fa’oo’lun……………….. “”””””””””””””””””
6) Bahr-e-Mutadaarik…… Faa’I’lun………………… “”””””””””””””””””
Aik rukn agar aik sheAr meiN 8 martaba (yani 4 martabah aik misreA meiN) aaye tou us BeHr ko mucamman kahte haiN.
Aik hi rukn baghair kisi aur rukn ke izafeh ke aaye tou us BeHr ko Salim kehte heiN.

Mandarja-e-zail panch (5) beHreN do (2) rukn ke mukarrar laane se banti heiN:

1) BeHr-e-khafeef = faa'ilaa'tun mus'taf'ilun faa'ilun

2) BeHr-e-sareeA = mustaf'ilun mustaf'ilun maf'Aoolaat Mazkoora-e-baalaa dounoUn beHreN sir musaddas shakl meiN isteAmaal houti heiN.

3) BeHr-e-Mujtac = mustaf'ilun faa'ilaa'tun mustaf'ilun faa'ilaatun

4) BeHr-e-MuzaariA=mafaa'eelun faa'ilaatun mafaa'eelun faa'ilaatun

5) BeHr-e-MunsariH=mustaf'ilun faa'ilaat mustaf'ilun faa'ilaat Yeh beHraiN Saalim mustaAmal nahiN heiN. Jis mein agar aik sheAr meiN che (6) rukn houN tou us ko musaddar aur aaTh (8) rukn houN tou usko mucamman kehte heiN.

Note: In arkaan ke saheeh talaffuz ke liye main aik Jpeg file bhi bhaij rahaa hooN jisko apne paas mehfooz karleejiye. Roman meiN aur Urdu meiN arkaan ki muTaabiqat ko achchi tarah se samajhne ki koushish keejiye.

Ham doosre sabaq meiN mandarja-e-baalaa arkaan ko samjhne ki koushish karenge. ShurooA karenge faa’I’lun se. Isko yooN kahaa jaasakta hai faa + ilun. (faa ke vazn per aane waale alfaz heiN macalan (aa, jaa, laa, khaa, Dhaa, paa, gaa, thaa, chaa, din, tum, ham, kab, sab, too, bhi, Dhal, kal, per, ) waghairah.
(ilun ke vazn per aane waale alfaaz heiN macalan (gaya, sunaa, chalaa, khulaa, karou, sunou, nahiN, abhee, kaTee, ajab, ghazab, Talab, Tarab, sifat, sanam, qadam) waghairah.
Is tarah se faa’ilun ke mumaacil alfaaz houNge macalan (aa’gaya, keh’diya, jaa’chukaa, Dhal’gaya, reh’gaiee, chou’Riye, ab’nahiN, sil’sila) waghairah.
Ummeed hai ke aap faa’ilun ka vazn samajh gaye hounge.
Ab aane waali JPEG file ko bhi paRhiye aur doosre sabaq ka intizaar farmaayiye.

[/quote]

[quote]

*Sabaq #2.
*
Ham ne jin 7 behraoN ke bare mein aik taAarufi zikr kiya hai unka tafseeli zikr b’ad meiN aayega. Filwaqt, hamare paas ahmiyyat un arkan ki hei jinka zikr kiy’ya gaya hai.

Wo arkan heiN: mus’taf’I’lun, ma’faa’ee’lun, muta’faa’I’lun, faa’I’laa’tun, fa’oo’lun, faa’I’lun.

Faa’I’lun ke 2 hissaoN ka zikr kiyaa gayaa.1)faa 2)ilun
Yani faa’I’lun = faa + ilun. (is silsileh meiN chand alfaaz ki micalaiN paish ki gaieeN jo bahut ahem heiN laikin unki taraf ham ba’d meiN tafseeli baat cheet karenge. Aaj faa’I’lun ki bunyaad per ham doosre arkan ke vazn ko bhi samajhne ki koushish karenge.

Faa’I’lun = faa + ilun
Ab fa’oo’lun per ghaur keejiye. Fa’oo’lun = fa’oo + lun aur yeh hai (lun + fa’oo) ka ultaa. lun = faa aur fa’oo = ilun. Is tarah se fa’oo + lun ulTaa hai faa + ilon ka.
MicalaiN:
faa + ilun = jal’gayaa, miT,gayaa, chup’gayaa, tum’kahou
Fa’oo + lun = gayaa’jal, gayaa’mit, gayaa’chup, kahou’tum
Is tarah se ham ne mukhtasar taur per faa’ilun aur fa’oolun ko samajhne ki koushish ki.
Ab faa’I’laa’tun per ghaur karte heiN.
Faa + ilaa + tun (is meiN faa se ham waaqif houchuke heiN.)
Ilaa = ilon (is se bhi waaqif houchuke heiN.)
Lun = faa (is se bhi waaqif houchuke heiN) yani faa’I’laa’tun ka vazn waisa hi hai jaisa faa + ilun + faa ka yani is ki micalaiN
yooN housakti heiN.
Faa + ilaa + tun = hou gaya thaa, kiya kahou ge, sun rahe hou, gham nahiN hai, Phir hamaiN kiyaa, zin dagee meiN, aa rahaa hooN, thak gaye heiN, (waghairah)

YahaN tak ham ne 3 arkan ko samajhne ki koushish ki hai:
1) faa’I’lun
2) fa’oo’lun
3) faa’I’laa’tun.
In ke mumaacil alfaaz ka bhi zikr kiyaa gayaa hai. Ab seekhne waalaoN ke liye zaroori hei ke wo in teenoN arkaan ke mumacil alfaaz banane ki koushish karaiN aur apni koushish mujhe PM yaa Email se bhaijaiN taakeh agar koiee ghalaTi hou to door karsakooN aur jawaab dooN.

Ab aur teen ahem arkan baaqi heiN:
Muta’faa’I’lun, mafaa’ee’lun aur mus’taf’I’lun jinke bare mein ham Sabaq No.3 meiN guftagu karenge.

[/quote]

[being_lonely]

Re: Technical issues of writing

salam dear.pehlay wala sabaq to ooper se guzar gaya aap nay bohat kuch likha theek but aik bhi example nahi di poetry ki aur doosra sabaq bhi post kar dia.yeh sabh to hum kitabon main say bhi parh saktay hain lakin agar app iss ko aasaan kar k familar wordz main samjhain to yaqinana afaaka hoga warana i think it is Latin..asta lavista....:-)

[Amal]

Re: Technical issues of writing

@*BEINGLONELY*

salam dear.pehlay wala sabaq to ooper se guzar gaya…agar app iss ko aasaan kar k familar wordz main samjhain to yaqinana afaaka hoga warana i think it is Latin..asta lavista…

BEINGLONELY, do you know it comes from a teacher who is so vehementaly venerable on the internet? With most respect to him and all those his fans, I have always felt exactly what you just went through and that’s what I am going to discuss about. Most of the people who stress on the technicalities of the art of writing, do not feel the need to simplify the whole process, espcially the jargons. I have said it earlier in this thread about it:

@Amal

I will ad more to it and will especially highlight the need to re-write the curriculum for aspiring writers.

Talking about technicalities is one thing and simplification of this process is another. I have thought a lot about it and will share my ideas with people here. As I am also is an absolute beginner, I will make public my formula. But I would like more senior and serious people to shed light on the issue first.

[Zamil]

Re: Technical issues of writing

Thanx alottttt Amal G!
Ye cheezein main samajh to chuka tha lekin apne tor par, aaj aapki waja se in istalahaat se bhi waaqif hogaya jin ki hamesha pyaas mehsoos hoti thi. Yaqeenan kaee logon k liye mushkil to hoga is tarz par samajhna lekin aap continue rakhein. Main abhi kuch post nahi karoon ga warna parrhne waalon ka zehen taqseem ho jaye ga. Jab aap isey mukammal kar lein ge then I will post the ways, jin se main ne ye sab samjha tha. Theek na!
Keep it up.
n Nickless Thanx for liking my stuff...:-)
c u

[Amal]

Re: Technical issues of writing

@Zamil

Thanx alottttt Amal G!
Ye cheezein main samajh to chuka tha lekin apne tor par, aaj aapki waja se in istalahaat se bhi waaqif hogaya jin ki hamesha pyaas mehsoos hoti thi.

That’s great. Than you can help me and others understand this stuff because it’s too heavy for us.

@Zamil

Thanx alottttt Amal G!
Main abhi kuch post nahi karoon ga warna parrhne waalon ka zehen taqseem ho jaye ga. Jab aap isey mukammal kar lein ge then I will post the ways, jin se main ne ye sab samjha tha.

Zamil I think we are here to debate the isses of writing. It’s not all about sharing what I do or what you do. I think it is only proper to first thrash it out so that we could identify problem areas and than put forward our own do’s and don’ts.

I think other should also get involved in this thread. Other members like me who want to improve their writing skills or want to learn a few new things, should also participate in this thread and just not be silent spectators.

As a critic’s point of view, we know how to put you down, but as a writer’s angle, you also air your grievances. That’s the way this thread should grow.

[Zamil]

Re: Technical issues of writing

Assalaam o Alaikum !

Ham high level k mash-hoor poets ki baat nahi karein ge. Ham sirf apne level par baat karte hain, haan jab examples ki zarurat ho gi to unhi se istafaada kia jaye ga.
Agar ham categorize karein un logon ko jo urdu poetry mein dakhal rakhte hain or un logon ki problems bhi saath hi mention karein to shaayad kuch is tarha ki list saamne aaye;

1- Wo log, jin ko kuch bhi pata nahi k wo kya likh rahe hain aur na hi wo is baare mein jaan-na chaahte hain k wo kya likh rahe hain. Isey khud farebi keh lein lekin wo apni us limited knowledge ki dunia mein khush rehte hain aur khud ko us ka baadshah mehsoos karte hain.

2- Wo log, jin ko thorra bohat pata hai k wo kya likh rahe hain lekin aik point of appreciations, ( jise wo khud hi te kar lete hain ), tak pohanchne k baad wo mutma'in ho jaate hain aur mazeed kuch jaanne ki koshish nahi karte.

3- Wo log, jin ko kuch bhi nahi ma'loom ya thorra bohat ma'loom hai k wo kya likh rahe hain aur un k ander jaanne ki justju hamesha rehti hai.

Ab ham teesri (3rd) category ko mazeed sub-categories mein taqseem karte hain lekin us se pehle aik baat mention karna bohat zaruri hai. Wo ye k bilfarz agar ham kinu k beej se gandum ugaane ki koshish karein to kya ham kabhi uga sakte hain? Zaahir hai k kabhi nahi. Agar hamaara dimaagh us tarz pe bana hi nahi hai k ham misron ka wazan parakh sakein to ham zabardasti kaise kar sakte hain. Hamein apni mental state aur mental abilities ko samjhna hoga aur usey qubool karna hoga.

To aage barrhte hain (sub-categories);

i) Wo log, jin to un ki taqdeer mauqa hi nahi deti, yaani wo zindagi mein aaise ulajhte hain k un ki jaanne ki justju hamesha ki tashnagi ban jaati hai.

ii) Wo log, jo jaanne ki justju **bhi rakhte hain par kuch poochhne mein **aar bhi mehsoos karte hain. Aaise log agar sahi fan-kaar hon to kisi na kisi tarha apni justju ka safar jaari rakhne mein kaam-yaab ho jaate hain.

iii) Wo log, jin mein jaanne ki justju bhi hoti hai, poochne mein koi aar mehsoos nahi karte, jahan se jo bhi milta hai le lete hain, koi ustaad mil jaye to un k nikharne ka amal teiz ho jaata hai, ustaad na mil sake tab bhi nikharte to hain lekin zara waqt zyada lag jaata hai aur in mein kuch log aaise bhi hain jin ki self-analysis ki salaahiyat ek nukte par aa kar ruk jaati hai aur wo aik ustaad ki kami shiddat se mehsoos karne lagte hain, kuch ustaad pa lete hain kuch nahi.

Har parrhne waale se meri darkhwaast hai k mere mehdood dimaagh ki rasaai jis qadar hai, meri bayaan ki taaqat us se bhi kam hai aur mutaalea to na hone k baraabar haiso agar mujh se koi nukta miss ho gaya ho ya main koi cheez sahi se bayaan na kar paaya hoon to mention zaroor kijiye ga.

Zamil.

[Zamil]

Re: Technical issues of writing

Urdu poetry ki bunyaadi shaakh par baat karte hain yaani NAZM.

GHAZAL ko pehle discuss karte hain jo k NAZM ki hi aik qism hai. Sab se pehle to Ghazal ki pehchaan ki jaaye k kis tehreer ko Ghazal kahein aur Ghazal ka "structure" kaisa hota hai. Ghazal ke wo bunyaadi lawaazim jo Ghazal ki definition mein shaamil hain, ye hain;

• Ham-wazan ash'aar, jin ka har doosra misra aik qaafiye ka paaband ho. ( Yaani pehle she'r ka doosra misra, doosre she'r ka doosra misra, teesre she'r ka doosra misra and so on.....) aur har she'r main ek alag mazmoon bayaan kia gaya ho to us tehreer ko Ghazal kahein ge.
  Agar poori Ghazal k ash'aar ek hi mazmoon par likhe gaye hon to us ko
  Ghazal-e-Musalsal kahein ge.
  Is definition mein do baatein wazaahat-talab hain. Ek to "ham-wazan" aur doosri "qaafiya". Pehle qaafiye par baat karte hain k qaafiya hai kya.

• QAAFIYA: Ye Arabic word hai jis ka matlab hai pai-dar-pai aane waala, baar baar aane waala. Qaafiya kisi mukammal lafz ko nahi kehte bal-k kisi lafz k aakhir mein aane waale ek harf ya ek se zyaada huroof ko Qaafiya kehte hain. Maslan;
  Jaise k saare shehr ki bijli chali gaee
  Aankhein khuli khuli theen magar soojhta na tha

Tasveer meri parda-e-takhleeq ban gaee
Chirrya ne is ki aarr mein ik ghar basa lia

Baatein k jaise paani mein jalte huey diye
Kamre mein narm narm ujaala sa bhar *gaya
*(Basheer Badar)

In teenon ash'aar k aakhri alfaaz ko dekhiye;
"tha", "lia", "gaya".
Ye teenon alfaaz aik hi harf par khatm hote hain aur wo "alif" hai. To is Ghazal ka Qaafiya "alif" hai aur ye teenon alfaaz "Ham-Qaafiya" alfaaz kehlaayen ge. Doosri misaal dekhiye;

Phool hain sehra mein ya pariyaa(n) qataar andar qataar
Oode oode, neele neele, peele peele pairahan

Barg-e-gul par rakh gaee shabnam ka moti baad-e-subh
Aur chamkaati hai is moti ko sooraj ki kiran

Apne man mein doob kar pa ja suraagh-e-zindagi
Tu agar mera nahi banta na ban, apna to ban
(Iqbal)

In teenon ash'aar k aakhri alfaaz ko dekhiye;
"pairahan", "kiran", "ban".
Ye teenon alfaaz aik hi harf par khatm hote hain aur wo "noon" hai (ya phir zabar noon bhi keh sakte hain). To is Ghazal ka Qaafiya "noon" hai aur ye teenon alfaaz "Ham-Qaafiya" alfaaz kehlaayen ge.

• Yahaan ek aur baat ki wazaahat bohat zaruri hai, wo ye k ham sab ko ma'loom hai k noon par khatm hone waale alfaaz to be-shumaar hain. To Ham-Qaafiya alfaaz k liye do baatein zaruri ho gaeen;

1. Ham-Qaafiya alfaaz wo hain jin alfaaz ka aakhri ek harf ya ek se zyaada huroof same hon yaani ek se hon.
2. Ham-Qaafiya alfaaz wo hain jin alfaaz ko bola jaaye to un alfaaz k "aakhri hisse" ka "Sauti Ta'assur" ek sa ho ya yoon keh lein k un alfaaz k "aakhri hisse" ka talaffuz ek sa ho. Alfaaz k "aakhri hisse" se muraad wo hissa hai jis mein Qaafiye k huroof aate hain. Ab ek aur misaal dekhiye;

Nahi is khuli fiza mien koi gosha-e-faraaghat
Ye jahan ajab jahan hai, na qafas na aashiyaana

Mere ham-safeer isey bhi asar-e-bahaar samjhe
Inhein kya khabar k kya hai ye navaa-e-aashiqaana

Teri banda-parvari se mere din guzar rahe hain
Na gila hai doston ka, na shikaayat-e-zamaana
(Iqbal)

In teenon ash'aar k aakhri alfaaz ko dekhiye;
"aashiyaana", "aashiqaana", "zamaana".
Ye teenon Ham-Qaafiya alfaaz teen huroof par khatm hote hain aur wo hain "alif", "noon", "he". To is Ghazal ka Qaafiya "alif, noon, he" hai.

****(Qaafiye ki mad mein jo tashnagi reh gaee hai wo us waqt door ho jaye gi jab ham "Ham-Wazan Alfaaz" aur "Ham-Wazan Misron" ko discuss karein ge. Main wazan par **agli post* mein baat karoon ga kiyun k wo bohat tafseel talab mauzu hai.)

Ab ham Ghazal ki un cheezon ki baat karte hain jin ko Ghazal ka zeiwar
**kaha ja sakta hai yaani un k Ghazal mein **na hone se Ghazal to Ghazal hi rehti hai lekin agar wo maujood **hon to Ghazal ki **shaan barrh jaati hai. Un k naam ye hain;

1. ** Matl'a**
2. *Maqt'a *

3. Radeef

4. MATL'A: Agar Ghazal k pehle she'r k dono misron ka ikhtetaam Ham-Qaafiya alfaaz par ho to us she'r ko Ghazal ka Matl'a kahein ge. (Ek Ghazal mein ek se zyaada Matle bhi ho sakte hain.) Maslan;

Tujhe yaad kya nahi hai mere dil ka wo zamaana
Wo adab-gah-e-mohabbat, wo nigah ka taaziyaana <---(MATL'A)

Nahi is khuli fiza mien koi gosha-e-faraaghat
Ye jahan ajab jahan hai, na qafas na aashiyaana

Mere ham-safeer isey bhi asar-e-bahaar samjhe
Inhein kya khabar k kya hai ye navaa-e-aashiqaana

Teri banda-parvari se mere din guzar rahe hain
Na gila hai doston ka, na shikaayat-e-zamaana

• MAQT'A: Ghazal ka wo aakhri she'r Maqt'a kehlaata hai jis mein shaa'ir ne apna takhallus istemaal kia ho. Maslan;

Main ne maana k kuch nahi "Ghaalib"

Muft haath aaye to bura kya hai

"Faiz" dozakh mein mai mile na mile

Shaikh saahab se jaa(n) to chhoote gi

Mash-hoor hain sikandar o jam ki nishaaniyaa(n)

Aai "Daagh" chhorr jaayen ge ham yaad-gaar dil

• RADEEF: Agar kisi ek Ghazal k ash'aar mein Qaafiye k baad ek ya ek se zyaada alfaaz aayen to un ko radeef kaha jaaye ga. Ghazal k pehle she'r mein jo radeef istemaal hogi, Ghazal k baqya ash'aar mein bhi wohi radeef istemaal hogi,us ka ek lafz bhi Ghazal k dauraan tabdeel nahi kia ja sakta. Maslan;

Ye na thi hamaari qismat k visaal-e-yaar hota
Agar aur jeete rehte, yehi intezaar hota

Tere waade par jiye ham to ye jaan jhoot jaanaa(n)
K khushi se mar na jaate agar aaitebaar hota

Koi mere dil se pooche tere teer-e-neem-kash ko
Ye khalish kahan se hoti jo jigar k paar hota

Ye masaail-e-tasawuff, ye tera bayaan Ghalib
Tujhe ham vali samajhte jo na baada-khuaar hota
**
Is Ghazal ki radeef **ek lafz ki hai, yaani "hota". Ab ek aur misaal dekhiye;

Dil-e-naadaa(n) tujhe hua kya hai
Aakhir is dard ki dava kya hai

Ham hain mushtaaq aur wo be-zaar
Ya Ilaahi ye maajra kya hai

Ham ko un se wafa ki hai ummeed
Jo nahi jaante wafa kya hai

Jaan tum par nisaar karta hoon
Main nahi jaanta dua kya hai

Is Ghazal ki radeef do alfaaz "kya hai" par mushtamil hai jo poori Ghazal mein kaheen tabdeel nahi huey. Ek aur misaal dekhiye;

Wo bujhe gharon ka charaagh tha, ye kabhi kisi ko khabar na ho
Usey le gaee hai kahan hava, ye kabhi kisi ko khabar na ho

Kaee log jaan se jaayen ge mere qaatilon ki talaash mein
Mere qatl mein mera haath tha ye kabhi kisi ko khabar na ho

Mere paas jitni hai raushni hai yehi charaagh ki zindagi
Main kahan jala, main kahan bujha, ye kabhi kisi ko khabar na ho
(Basheer Badar)

Is Ghazal mein Qaafiya "alif" ka hai aur Radeef "ye kabhi kisi ko khabar na ho" hai jo k saat alfaaz par mushtamil hai. Poori Ghazal mein kaheen bhi is radeef ka ek bhi lafz tabdeel nahi hota.

Ghazal k "structure" ka aadha hissa to ikhtataam ko pohncha. Agli post mein "wazan" ko discuss karoon ga.

Us k baad Ghazal k "constituents" (yaani t*ashbeeh, **ista'aara, **talmeeh*, waghaira) par baat karoon ga.

Zamil.

[Shahana]

Re: Technical issues of writing

thread is very hot here.i m missing it,cause m busy in guests.i even can,t read the whole thread. sorry 4 not sharing.
regards
shan

[darwesh]

Re: Technical issues of writing

Jigar Zamil.....khushbash,
Aapne bari arq rezi se, aur bari geerayee aur gahrayee se apni baat kah di hai. Kaash hum jaise doosre ghazal ke (shouqiya) students, iss bahas main
hissa lete, aur kuch seekhte, mere khayaal main pahli baar iss fourum main itni sanjeeda baat chalrahi hai.
Bhai Amal ki presentations bhi qabil e sataish hai, apne bhi bohat achhe andaaz main "sabaq" samne rakh diya hai... ab yeh seekhne wale aur Aamokhta dohrane wale par munhasir hai.

"EK NA EK SHAMMA ANDHERE MAIN JALAYE RAKHYE "

[Amal]

Re: Technical issues of writing

@Shahana

thread is very hot here.i m missing it,cause m busy in guests.i even can,t read the whole thread. sorry 4 not sharing.
regards
shan

I hope you will finally manage some time for this thread

@darwesh

Jigar Zamil…khushbash,
…Kaash hum jaise doosre ghazal ke (shouqiya) students, iss bahas main hissa lete, aur kuch seekhte…

Doosrey to wa’qai nazar nahi aa rahey, lekin aap ki hazri bhi abhi tak khaasi rasmi lag rahi hey Jesa ke aek baar Zamil ney kaha tha, aap wa’qai Sagar Siddiquie ke ‘darwesh’ lagtey heiN:

**
Mushkil hey darwesh ka us shehar meiN jeena
ho faaka-kashi naam jahaaN sabr-o-raza ka
“Sagar Siddiquie”
**

[Amal]

Re: Technical issues of writing

Zamil has provided us a great breakdown of technical issues. Especially post#16 needs to be taken very seriously by new writers.

We have to understand that a great poet is born and an average poet is made. There are many people who are compelled by circumstances to restore to writing to air their grievances. They are not driven by their inbuilt talent to write, rather — they are refugees of social, moral or emotional hardships and seek temporary immigration from a real world to an artificial one. They are like passersby and will never incorporate into the realm of real poetry. They will depart from the this world as soon as they are engaged to something soothing offered by the real world. So whatever amount of time and work they spend and do in the world of poetry, neither they know that this world is also governed by rules and regulations, nor they want their pen to be penned by any such boundry. I do not believe they should be worked on. I have seen many people writing poety for some time and than stopping it altogether for “want of time.” I do not believe time could ever be a factor for a born poet.

As Zamil put it in his post#15

@Zamil

…agar ham kinu k beej se gandum ugaane ki koshish karein to kya ham kabhi uga sakte hain? Zaahir hai k kabhi nahi. Agar hamaara dimaagh us tarz pe bana hi nahi hai k ham misron ka wazan parakh sakein to ham zabardasti kaise kar sakte hain. Hamein apni mental state aur mental abilities ko samjhna hoga aur usey qubool karna hoga.

Every student should know if he really got it in him or not? And I believe every teacher should assess a student on this fact which I think is not a big deal. In my opinion, any single piece of any newcomer can very clearly speak of the talent of its creator.

Now a few questions:
1: How can we know if we can do it or not?
…1: (a) What we should do if we know that we cannot do it?
2: What a teacher should do if he knows that he (student) cannot do it?
**3: How do we know that someone is good enough to be a teacher? **
and the mother of all questions:
**4: What the rules are, why they are there and are THEY flawless? **

We will discuss about these questions later.