Pakistan has got a software company?? they can't make needle in their own country and beg for anything and everything to US and china. this is nonsense. This company seems to be US multination. May be a marketing office in pakistan........
I recommend you take your head out of cow's behind.
Pakistan has got a software company?? they can't make needle in their own country and beg for anything and everything to US and china. this is nonsense. This company seems to be US multination. May be a marketing office in pakistan........
Bitter truth eh.... yes, i expect those reaction and sturr. In fact, you guys fulfull my objective of tickling you people to true situation in pakistan.
The company posted by one the participant was the US multinational whith just a marketing office in pakistan. (Don't know what is the objective of posting it... is it evidence that Pakistani MNC do exist..If it is that, then must say...it's a very poor, desparate and pathetic attempt)
It;s like have terrorist camp in pakistan and operation on PoK or terror masters in pakistan and blasts in US/UK. offcourse, that has the affect in base country also. that's why killings of innocent pakistanis in karachi/ Lahore/Peshawar everyday.
But i must say, there is a diplomatic mistake from Indian leadership also. we should have offered you enough so that you don't have to beg to US/China. India fails to develop relationship like US-Canada after idependance.
Re: TATA in Columbia! why not Pakistan & BD?
^ the objective was to say that there is a false premise in the thread title “why not Pakistan and BD”.
you repeatedly say that its got a marketing office in Pakistan. Dont know if you’re deliberately being obtuse or are just really a dullard, but heres a profile of the CEO/founder of the company, heres the development lead’s profile. The Pindi offices were responsible for development and QA mainly, dont know if it included marketing.
Bitter truth eh.... yes, i expect those reaction and sturr. In fact, you guys fulfull my objective of tickling you people to true situation in pakistan.
The company posted by one the participant was the US multinational whith just a marketing office in pakistan. (Don't know what is the objective of posting it... is it evidence that Pakistani MNC do exist..If it is that, then must say...it's a very poor, desparate and pathetic attempt)
It;s like have terrorist camp in pakistan and operation on PoK or terror masters in pakistan and blasts in US/UK. offcourse, that has the affect in base country also. that's why killings of innocent pakistanis in karachi/ Lahore/Peshawar everyday.
But i must say, there is a diplomatic mistake from Indian leadership also. we should have offered you enough so that you don't have to beg to US/China. India fails to develop relationship like US-Canada after idependance.
When you do take your head out of cow's behind let me know then we can talk.
Just because we dont have TATA in Pakistan is hardly something we should worry about...
Pakistan does have multinational companies.
Pakistanis are a nation of 180 Million, and the extremists you refer to are a minuscule proportion of the over all society.
And you make it out to seem as though Pakistanis are extremists by nature...
You fail to recall the fact that there is a war going on to our East. To expect such a war to have no effect on Pakistan is naive at best and ignorant at worst.
I think you might have misunderstood what I wrote. I said "most parts" not in the sense of "most parts of Pakistan". Rather in the sense of the primary reason that this (companies from outside of Pakistan opening business in Pakistan) does not happen is due to religious extremism and the resultant violence.
Ofcourse I know the terrorists are only a small percentage of Pakistan
pathetic…just pathetic
I think you might have misunderstood what I wrote. I said "most parts" not in the sense of "most parts of Pakistan". Rather in the sense of the primary reason that this (companies from outside of Pakistan opening business in Pakistan) does not happen is due to religious extremism and the resultant violence.
Ofcourse I know the terrorists are only a small percentage of Pakistan
Its a mater of marketing.
India isnt necessarily better then Pakistan in terms of investor climate. An objective look at India reveals a country where poverty is rampant, terrorism is not unheard of, and corruption is often endemic. Many of the same problems that effect Pakistan are also there in India...
The issue is of PR and marketing. India has done a good job in terms of self promotion. So foreign investors overlook certain issues in India, while the same problems become prominent in Pakistan... So while in India, 75 policemen can be murdered in some remote corner of the country and no one blinks an eye, if the same were to happen in Pakistan, it would be enough to alarm bells among investors.
So ultimately, its not about extremism as India probably has far more of those then Pakistan. Its an issue of marketing. Pakistan can have Millions of extremists, but if you only present the side of your country that you think is worth presenting, then extremism is irrelevant.
The fact that Pakistan does have multinationals and home grown companies as well doing relatively well, illustrates the fact that ground reality doesn't conform to perception.
The reason many local companies haven't become multinational has a lot to do with policies of the past. In particular the socialist govt take over at the hands of the Bhutto govt in the 70's.
Are all Indians as delusional and ignorant as you are or is that something unique to you???
Ask Mian Muhammaed Mansha… He didnt become a Billionaire in India. He did it in Paksitan.
Re: TATA in Columbia! why not Pakistan & BD?
It is NOT simply a matter of better PR by India and there are very concrete differences between investing in India and Pakistan. Besides the massive difference in law & order, there is also the sovereign risk associated with Pakistan.
If you really look at purely from a return perpective, Pakistan is one of the highest investment returns locations in the world. Yet investment doesn't come to Pakistan because of the above risks
It is NOT simply a matter of better PR by India and there are very concrete differences between investing in India and Pakistan. Besides the massive difference in law & order, there is also the sovereign risk associated with Pakistan.
If you really look at purely from a return perpective, Pakistan is one of the highest investment returns locations in the world. Yet investment doesn't come to Pakistan because of the above risks
My point is that the problems you cite are exaggerated. The Law and order situation is not nearly as bad as people make it out to be. But because everything in Pakistan is exaggerated due to an already bad image problem, every incident is blown way out of proportion and the entire country is labeled an investment risk.
There are concrete differences as well im sure. But you did not cite those problems, you simply pointed to law and order, and supposed extremism as the sole reason. My point was in reference to those specific concerns.
Investment not coming to Pakistan is not do to ground reality, its due to an exaggerated fear which has very little basis in reality. The very fact that there are companies in Pakistan, and they are doing well, bellies the claim that investment in Pakistan is hampered by what some claim is a serious law and order situation.
And lets face it, you honestly think extremism is not a problem in India? If anything, investors should be more concerned with Indian extremism, but as things are in the world, Hindu extremists however brutal and calculating are given a pass, while Muslims whether extremists or not are given a bad rap for simply being Muslim.
...... But you did not cite those problems, you simply pointed to law and order, and supposed extremism as the sole reason. My point was in reference to those specific concerns. Investment not coming to Pakistan is not do to ground reality, its due to an exaggerated fear which has very little basis in reality. ..
Bhai meray!
International investors are no fools.
They go for the place from where they can get the BEST product at the LOWEST price in the SHINIEST package available.
International investors have just one religion "money", and one god "safety".
So you combine the desires and FAITH of international investors and you get ranking of every darn country in the world.
And they pick the top 1 or 2 and that's it.
Pakistan's true capabilities are suited to serve the West. Our English speaking populace is smart enough to support the service and manufacturing industry of the West.
But Pakistani educated elite wants to sever the Arabs for one reason or the other. That would have been OK if Arabs had large enough service sector and manufacturing sector needs to send $60 billion to Pakistan. But they cannot.
So Pakistan is marooned to make $60 million instead.
In rough approximation.
Pakistan makes $60 million by providing services to the West.
Indians make $60 billion.
And
Chinese make $300 to $500 billion by providing services to the West.
So for us the real role model is China and Chinese companies. If we follow them, emulate them, imitate them, we too can make the money in the tune of $100 billion.
However we don't want to work heard (and cheap) like Chinese do,
And that's why we are stuck making $60 million form trade and $4 billion from begging loans and aid.
p.s. All the numbers above are for comparison purposes. Do google and you can find the exact figures.
Bhai meray!
International investors are no fools.
They go for the place from where they can get the BEST product at the LOWEST price in the SHINIEST package available.
International investors have just one religion "money", and one god "safety".
So you combine the desires and FAITH of international investors and you get ranking of every darn country in the world.
And they pick the top 1 or 2 and that's it.
Pakistan's true capabilities are suited to serve the West. Our English speaking populace is smart enough to support the service and manufacturing industry of the West.
But Pakistani educated elite wants to sever the Arabs for one reason or the other. That would have been OK if Arabs had large enough service sector and manufacturing sector needs to send $60 billion to Pakistan. But they cannot.
So Pakistan is marooned to make $60 million instead.
In rough approximation.
Pakistan makes $60 million by providing services to the West.
Indians make $60 billion.
And
Chinese make $300 to $500 billion by providing services to the West.
So for us the real role model is China and Chinese companies. If we follow them, emulate them, imitate them, we too can make the money in the tune of $100 billion.
However we don't want to work heard (and cheap) like Chinese do,
And that's why we are stuck making $60 million form trade and $4 billion from begging loans and aid.
p.s. All the numbers above are for comparison purposes. Do google and you can find the exact figures.
Reading comprehension is obviously not your strong point "Bhai mera"
The individual in question claimed that the sole reason for there being less foreign investment in Pakistan is extremism and a law and order situation...
I am challenging that assertion. I already admit there are others concrete factors as the Indian guppie put for this, but his original argument was that it was entirely due to law and order..
So thanks for your economics lesson, but you once again lost track of the argument at hand.
That being said, im sure there are many role models for Pakistan. But Pakistans production base can only progress if given room to evolve.
Re: TATA in Columbia! why not Pakistan & BD?
Med11 - to be precise, this is what I said - "The point is numeorus smaller countries are making some progress and Pakistan is unable to because of the extremists - religious extremists in most parts.".
Law & Order, bad PR, govt pre-occupation etc are play roles but in turn become futile due to the atmosphere of violence.
Of course India is not immune to these problems either. But the role played Indian business in determining / influencing policy is a lot more (I think). For example, there have been instances when Indian business pushed the government to tone down war rhetoric because it was beginning to affect prospects!
Burqaposhq - I would make one adjustment to your theory. China does not make 500B by rendering 'services' but rather they have cornered the outsourced 'manufacture'. They are only now beginning to take steps on the services side, where as you pointed out, passable English makes a huge difference.
.... Burqaposhq - I would make one adjustment to your theory. China does not make 500B by rendering 'services' but rather they have cornered the outsourced 'manufacture'. They are only now beginning to take steps on the services side, where as you pointed out, passable English makes a huge difference.
Yeah. I should have said "service and manufacture".
the term I used was "services" that covered everything being outsourced by the US.
Med11 - to be precise, this is what I said - "The point is numeorus smaller countries are making some progress and Pakistan is unable to because of the extremists - religious extremists in most parts.".
Law & Order, bad PR, govt pre-occupation etc are play roles but in turn become futile due to the atmosphere of violence.
Of course India is not immune to these problems either. But the role played Indian business in determining / influencing policy is a lot more (I think). For example, there have been instances when Indian business pushed the government to tone down war rhetoric because it was beginning to affect prospects!
Burqaposhq - I would make one adjustment to your theory. China does not make 500B by rendering 'services' but rather they have cornered the outsourced 'manufacture'. They are only now beginning to take steps on the services side, where as you pointed out, passable English makes a huge difference.
We are going around in circles I think...
Your claim is that Extremism, law and order are a problem.
I believe that the Law and order, and extremism situation are exaggerated.
The problem isnt Law and order, its brand ing the Pakistan name in a way that makes investors over look such exaggerated perceptions.
Govt preoccupation is correct, to some extent. They have not sold the Pakistani brand half as well as they should.
Religious extremism too is an exaggerated issue. Investors are not being attacked. Religious extremists have never actually threatened any companies, or their profits.
I would think that India has a bigger problem dealing with its own extremists. Hindu extremists tend be far more active in defending what they believe to be an assault, then any Muslim group in Pakistan.
The difference is that India markets itself in such a way that investors overlook such issues, while in Pakistan, extremists are apparently all ready to topple the govt...
Bottom line, Pakistans problem is an image problem first and foremost. Law and order and extremism are just an unfortunate label which is not supported by ground reality.
Business interests have lobbies in almost all countries. Pakistan is no exception. There is a reason why the govt hasn't raised taxes on corporate earnings, on agriculture etc. There is a reason they dd not really go after Sugar mill owners etc. The big business owners obviously have a say in things.
We are going around in circles I think...
Your claim is that Extremism, law and order are a problem.
I believe that the Law and order, and extremism situation are exaggerated. ...
I think you have a point but having hard time describing it.
So here is a different take on what you are trying to say.
----- True
---- That's true but the rationale you may give (or have in your mind) for this exaggeration is faulty.
Perhaps there is a point number 3.
In other words, extremists are doing their job like extremists do.
However
Are the peaceful Pakistanis are doing their job of presenting Pakistan as a fun loving, peaceful place where anyone of any color, race, or religion is welcome.
People can have their food the way they like, and drink whatever they like as long as they do not hurt other Pakistanis or fellow travelers.
May be then as Paks, we should start looking at and questioning the non-extremists Pakistanis and ask "What have you done lately to create a positive, friendly, humble, image of Pakistan"?
For example,
Rio has more shanty towns and in much worse crime condition than Karachi.
And Still,
People salivate with the thought of going to Rio for vacation,
But the same is not true for Karachi.
So perhaps we should not blame the poor and the criminals of Karachi.
Instead the
blame goes to the educated elite of Karachi that they utterly failed to make Karachi a 100 times better destination compared to Rio for tourism and trade.
Re: TATA in Columbia! why not Pakistan & BD?
pakistani need to strenthen brand pakistan or brand karachi
Mumbai is dangerous place, there is problem of underworld, morons like thakerey and all, still its financial capital of India and attracts foreign investments
Hyderabad is now in the grip of communal violence, but still facebook has decided to open branch in Hyderabad, becuse people remember Biryaani more than violence, its Brand Hyderabad thats play here.
once Brand Karachi or Brand Pakistan is established, your problem is half solved.
*like BURSHPOSX commented, your working and educated elite should bring out positive image,
*Bangladesh or nepal is not a lucrative option and columbia is, TATA wants returns on investment
jeetIAF
I think you have a point but having hard time describing it.
So here is a different take on what you are trying to say.
----- True
---- That's true but the rationale you may give (or have in your mind) for this exaggeration is faulty.
Perhaps there is a point number 3.
In other words, extremists are doing their job like extremists do.
However
Are the peaceful Pakistanis are doing their job of presenting Pakistan as a fun loving, peaceful place where anyone of any color, race, or religion is welcome.
People can have their food the way they like, and drink whatever they like as long as they do not hurt other Pakistanis or fellow travelers.
May be then as Paks, we should start looking at and questioning the non-extremists Pakistanis and ask "What have you done lately to create a positive, friendly, humble, image of Pakistan"?
For example,
Rio has more shanty towns and in much worse crime condition than Karachi.
And Still,
People salivate with the thought of going to Rio for vacation,
But the same is not true for Karachi.
So perhaps we should not blame the poor and the criminals of Karachi.
Instead the
blame goes to the educated elite of Karachi that they utterly failed to make Karachi a 100 times better destination compared to Rio for tourism and trade.
Burqa,
Rio has been a tourist destination for decades, Karachi never was. Part of this is due to the Latin culture, which has a host festivals and is an interesting mix of southern European, indigenous and African. Goa has the same mix in Asia. The infrastructure in Latin America is much better, having been to Mexico, trust me there roads put us or for that matter the Indians to shame.
Pakistanis are simply not "party animals". Secondly, the Pakistan government is not interested in foreign investment, perhaps with the exception of the Ayoub and Musharaf periods. Pakistani diplomatic missions overseas are a joke. Things might start changing if the Pakistan elite have a change of heart. But until they get their free money from the Yanks, nothing is happening.
A question for the Indians, if Pakistan invited Indian investors, would they come.
Re: TATA in Columbia! why not Pakistan & BD?
If Pakistan invites or permits, i think most Indian business houses will come. Even though there are security issues that will need to be worked. The IPL situation I think is an aberration which I still have not understood.
Your point about Rio, the fun town is on point as well. The intersection of moral values and tourist fun happens at a very different scale in Rio. I don't think either India or Pakistan will even want to emulate that.
PS: other than the degree to which religion is taken, I think the values of poor and middle-class Indians and Pakistanis are IMO very much alike. So then, what is the difference when it comes to business climate? Has to be the religious extremism right?