Taraweeh: What an excellent Bid'a (Umar)

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

In The Name of Allah, The Most Beneficent, The Most Kind

I am posting this email here because the discussion was stopped by the moderated by force since it was not yet came to an end without any final result. Moderators polices are not very well defined. In this case.

You don’t have right to CLOSE the thread since it was in progress. When you saw that it was going against your personal opinion you stopped it. You think that you have power to do it. This kind of act people were doing since beginning of mankind.

rehman1: don’t post too many messages to dump the real research message of the other person. It causes difficulty to find the chain of messages for other readers. Compile a single message in reply in MS Word and then post it in a single time. If you think that there are some modifications required goto edit and modify instead of posting another message.

Do you think that the religious discussion will never let you into sectarianism? In the beginging few people were discussing that Taraweeh is nafal or sunnat e mouakada. Is this not because of difference of opinions OR these kind of things came out because they belong to different sects.

Ammarr:
Before reading this email, I will urge to read my post once again carefully and answer them logically instead of redirecting the discussion to some other issues. The hadith I have posted I never used it incorrectly. The words of the hadith are quite clear and fairly no explanation is required to understand that. In this thread you are giving me the 2nd logic to disprove my opinion. Before another person gave me another reason.

As I said earlier please read it again.
The following words in the hadith clearly show that these words are NOT about the later Ummah. Please, read it carefully. Think over it again and tell me.

Ammarr: Similarly this hadith does not talk about the Hypocrites at the time of the Holy Prophet (PBUH). Words “My Associates”, “My Companions” clearly shows what you can understand.

Moreover, if you say that this Hadith is about the Hypocrites who were in the companions of the holy Prophet (PBUH) in his life, then we must have right to know them. Who were those? Why they went into hiding after the death of the holy Prophet (PBUH).

About hypocrites there is a complete sura in Quran, there were hypocrites even after the holy prophet, nobody deny that too. But the question is who those were. How to recognize those? Is there any gauge. And what are your responsibilities in their case. Can’t you go towards hell-fire in case of misunderstanding those kinds of people? To make you understand more discussion might require.

There are many other aAdeeth in support of this opinion. However one hadeeth can not be denied. I am not giving you more references. I am ending this here because this is not our fundamental topic in this thread.

The actions and deeds in their lives disprove this that the holy Prophet (PBUH) has never said anything about the personalities which I am mentioning. It is fabricated sometime later after they got power. You must be very careful. Illogical believes need fabrications to build their structure. Otherwise it is not long lasting. However it leaves certain flows in between. But those people who knew they always clarified it.

You never know how many Ahadeedh are opposing your opinion and thoughts, which is reflecting the truth concepts of Islam.

Quran and Ahle Bait (AS) has the most authentic value in islam.

Read the Hadith again and read its last part. And See what Hazrat Umar has said about Taraweeh and how he differentiated it with Tahujjad prayer. What he said proves that Taraweeh is an innovation and it was never prescribed before.

Here is the last part of that hadith for your convenience. Read it and please explain it with the reference.

If you know about sciences of Hadith. Please tell me but not here. We are discussing Taraweeh in this thread, which is a bidah named by its innovator and never prayed by the Holy prophet (PBUH) and in the times of Hazrat Abu Bakar. The Holy Prophet Prayed the Tahujjad Prayer instead. You think that it is Taraweeh. Which is wrong.

Since it was not a Sunnah. It revival does not make any sense. It is called a bidah by Hazrat Umar

For the rest of Ummah, Tahajjud prayer is only Sunnat-e-Mu’akkidah, but not obligatory. And for all the Nawafil and Sunnat-e-Mu’akkidah, Rasool Allah [saww] has clearly said:

Prophet[SAWW] ordered his adherents to offer non-compulsory Prayers at home. Read this Hadees

Why did Umar gather people in the mosque for Jam’at (congregation) to carry out NON COMPULSORY and NON CONGREGATIONAL Prayer? Is it not a clear violation of the orders of Rasool Allah [saww]? Anything that is not in harmony with the principles of religion, constitutes innovation of Dhalalah (misguidance).

Wasalam,

[email protected]

2

I fail to see what the poltical actions or fueds have to do with the word of god..kher continue the discussion maybe it will be solved here for once and for all :D

3

Re: Taraweeh: What an excellent Bid'a (Umar)

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by inuit: *
In The Name of Allah, The Most Beneficent, The Most Kind

I am posting this email here because the discussion was stopped by the moderated by force since it was not yet came to an end without any final result. Moderators polices are not very well defined. In this case.

You don’t have right to CLOSE the thread since it was in progress. When you saw that it was going against your personal opinion you stopped it. You think that you have power to do it. This kind of act people were doing since beginning of mankind.

rehman1: don’t post too many messages to dump the real research message of the other person. It causes difficulty to find the chain of messages for other readers. Compile a single message in reply in MS Word and then post it in a single time. If you think that there are some modifications required goto edit and modify instead of posting another message.

Do you think that the religious discussion will never let you into sectarianism? In the beginging few people were discussing that Taraweeh is nafal or sunnat e mouakada. Is this not because of difference of opinions OR these kind of things came out because they belong to different sects.

Ammarr:
Before reading this email, I will urge to read my post once again carefully and answer them logically instead of redirecting the discussion to some other issues. The hadith I have posted I never used it incorrectly. The words of the hadith are quite clear and fairly no explanation is required to understand that. In this thread you are giving me the 2nd logic to disprove my opinion. Before another person gave me another reason.

As I said earlier please read it again.
The following words in the hadith clearly show that these words are NOT about the later Ummah. Please, read it carefully. Think over it again and tell me.

Ammarr: Similarly this hadith does not talk about the Hypocrites at the time of the Holy Prophet (PBUH). Words “My Associates”, “My Companions” clearly shows what you can understand.

Moreover, if you say that this Hadith is about the Hypocrites who were in the companions of the holy Prophet (PBUH) in his life, then we must have right to know them. Who were those? Why they went into hiding after the death of the holy Prophet (PBUH).

About hypocrites there is a complete sura in Quran, there were hypocrites even after the holy prophet, nobody deny that too. But the question is who those were. How to recognize those? Is there any gauge. And what are your responsibilities in their case. Can’t you go towards hell-fire in case of misunderstanding those kinds of people? To make you understand more discussion might require.

There are many other aAdeeth in support of this opinion. However one hadeeth can not be denied. I am not giving you more references. I am ending this here because this is not our fundamental topic in this thread.

The actions and deeds in their lives disprove this that the holy Prophet (PBUH) has never said anything about the personalities which I am mentioning. It is fabricated sometime later after they got power. You must be very careful. Illogical believes need fabrications to build their structure. Otherwise it is not long lasting. However it leaves certain flows in between. But those people who knew they always clarified it.

You never know how many Ahadeedh are opposing your opinion and thoughts, which is reflecting the truth concepts of Islam.

Quran and Ahle Bait (AS) has the most authentic value in islam.

Read the Hadith again and read its last part. And See what Hazrat Umar has said about Taraweeh and how he differentiated it with Tahujjad prayer. What he said proves that Taraweeh is an innovation and it was never prescribed before.

Here is the last part of that hadith for your convenience. Read it and please explain it with the reference.

If you know about sciences of Hadith. Please tell me but not here. We are discussing Taraweeh in this thread, which is a bidah named by its innovator and never prayed by the Holy prophet (PBUH) and in the times of Hazrat Abu Bakar. The Holy Prophet Prayed the Tahujjad Prayer instead. You think that it is Taraweeh. Which is wrong.

Since it was not a Sunnah. It revival does not make any sense. It is called a bidah by Hazrat Umar

For the rest of Ummah, Tahajjud prayer is only Sunnat-e-Mu'akkidah, but not obligatory. And for all the Nawafil and Sunnat-e-Mu'akkidah, Rasool Allah [saww] has clearly said:

Prophet[SAWW] ordered his adherents to offer non-compulsory Prayers at home. Read this Hadees

Why did Umar gather people in the mosque for Jam'at (congregation) to carry out NON COMPULSORY and NON CONGREGATIONAL Prayer? Is it not a clear violation of the orders of Rasool Allah [saww]? Anything that is not in harmony with the principles of religion, constitutes innovation of Dhalalah (misguidance).

Wasalam,

[email protected]
[/QUOTE]

Here we go again. I am stating this the 4th time i guess.
The Hadith quoted by SHIAS are Daeef/weak hadith.
Its a way FOR THEM to malign PIOUS CALIPHS and COMPANIONS
of RASOOL ALLAH(SAW).
Taraweehs are not obligatory. They are SUNNAH of HOLY PROPHET.
He use to offer it sometimes at home and sometimes in congregation.
This is proven Saheeh Hadiths.
What Hazrat Umr did was revive a Sunnah. As in Hazrat Abu Bakr(RA)
caliphate their were lot of internal issues that need to be taken care.
Like dealing with False Prophet. So reviving TARAWEEH was not done during Hazrat Abu Bakr(r.a) KHILAFAAT.
I will just give an example. In Moghul King Akbar rule he developed
new DEEN. And Saint or scholar of that time stopped him from doing that.The saint was trying to save the religion or Sunnah.In other words
trying to revive Allah ka deen and Rasool Allah(SAW) ke Sunnah.

4

ok, if u r so convinced that its not a sunnah, u can stop praying it....

and those who do think its a sunnah, try to be firm in it....

5

not again......

yaar if u dont like taraweeh dont pray it.........

ok let it be settled once and for all.....

6

Aslam-o-Alakum

There is no solid to disprove my comments instead of posting unrelated things in reply. And you will never listen because some other things are forcing you to stop thinking over it.

[QUOTE]
bao bihari wrote:
if u dont like taraweeh dont pray it
[/QUOTE]
Kafar e Makkah asked The holy Prophet (PBUH) “If you don’t like our gods don’t worship those.” Did the Holy Prophet stopped preaching them. Because he was on right path.

[QUOTE]
rehman1 wrote:
Taraweehs are not obligatory. They are SUNNAH of HOLY PROPHET
[/QUOTE]
Itself praying is good, there is no any restriction to pray, one can pray as much as he want as much as can. Allah will reward him. InshaAllah’

But calling a non-Sunnah prayer Sunnah and praying in congregation means introducing a bidah in Deen which is Haram. To call any act a Sunnah which is actually not a Sunnah is Bidah.

Introducing new things in Deen considering that these were part of Deen is bidah.

Example: If somebody makes the (Fajar) morning prayer 4 Rakaat instead of 2 rakaat furd. Prayer itself is not Haram but with wrong niyyah in mind makes it haram.

If you go for Hajj in the month of Shawal and ask other people do this. This act will be a bidah. Because this is not in islam. Hajj itself is not haram but this act is haram.

Similarly if you pray nafal prayer anytime this prayer is not (never) haram if you continuely praying it with the same niyyah. But if you start praying it with some other niyyah and in congregation it will be haram on you. And bidah to because Prophet (PBUH) never taught us about it.

NOTE: Niyyah counts- Niyyah does matter; With what niyyah you are performing that act.

There was no such kind of Congregational prayer after the Isha prayer in the month of Ramazan. The Holy Prophet (PBUH) offered Tahajjud prayer in the month of Ramazan and the other months. The Holy Prophet (PBUH) ordered Muslim Ummah to perform Tahajjud prayer at home, not in Congregation. The prayer which Sunnies perform after I’sha in congregational form is Bidah.

There is no evidential proof that the Holy prophet named this prayer "taraweeh" specifically in the month of Ramadan, and in other months he named it tahajjud.

Brother rehman1! Give proofs of your reasons..time, business, history, fear, revival.. and show that they gave these reasoning while reviving it. Hazrat Umar never gave these reasong and no body else. this is just your Kyass at this present time. he just describe the merits of Tahujjad Prayer at that time, while other people were praying Taraweeh. He even himself was not praying Taraweeh at that time. he was just looking at them.

This is a religious discussion, this is not a shia-Sunni matter.

Wasalam
[email protected]

7

So praying Taraweeh is now equivalent to praying to Idols against which you are here preaching us? :k: good going.

I wish Muslims had used that much energy to focus on their own selfs and instead of criticizing other Muslims… and spread message of Allah swt everywhere.

8

I wish instead of proving each other wrong, we could unite and something constructive for islam.

I dont find anything wrong in reading dua-e-kumail or tarawieh.

P.S stop fighting and use your brains on thoses issues that really needs your attention.

9

**

This should be made comment of the week :k: :k: :k:

10

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Lusi: *
I wish instead of proving each other wrong, we could unite and something constructive for islam.

I dont find anything wrong in reading dua-e-kumail or tarawieh.

P.S stop fighting and use your brains on thoses issues that really needs your attention.
[/QUOTE]

I consider Dua Kumail to be innovation. Its a made up iranian dua.

11

[QUOTE]
So praying Taraweeh is now equivalent to praying to Idols against which you are here preaching us?
[/QUOTE]

Yes it is! Because this is a new form of Satanic act. He comes in different forms, you never know. Kufar e Makkah thought that the way they worship, it is from from the teaching of their saints and their Prophets. but it was not. similarly we think that Taraweeh is from the teachings of our Prophet (PBUH) but actually it is not.

I agree with Lusi 100%:

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Lusi:
I wish instead of proving each other wrong, we could unite and something constructive for islam.
...] P.S stop fighting and use your brains on thoses issues that really needs your attention.
[/QUOTE]

This is only possible only if they cleanup their books and they keep what they claim to have but they dont have that.

Wasalam,

[email protected]

12

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by inuit: *
Aslam-o-Alakum

There is no solid to disprove my comments instead of posting unrelated things in reply. And you will never listen because some other things are forcing you to stop thinking over it.

Kafar e Makkah asked The holy Prophet (PBUH) “If you don’t like our gods don’t worship those.” Did the Holy Prophet stopped preaching them. Because he was on right path.

Itself praying is good, there is no any restriction to pray, one can pray as much as he want as much as can. Allah will reward him. InshaAllah’

But calling a non-Sunnah prayer Sunnah and praying in congregation means introducing a bidah in Deen which is Haram. To call any act a Sunnah which is actually not a Sunnah is Bidah.

Introducing new things in Deen considering that these were part of Deen is bidah.

Example: If somebody makes the (Fajar) morning prayer 4 Rakaat instead of 2 rakaat furd. Prayer itself is not Haram but with wrong niyyah in mind makes it haram.

If you go for Hajj in the month of Shawal and ask other people do this. This act will be a bidah. Because this is not in islam. Hajj itself is not haram but this act is haram.

Similarly if you pray nafal prayer anytime this prayer is not (never) haram if you continuely praying it with the same niyyah. But if you start praying it with some other niyyah and in congregation it will be haram on you. And bidah to because Prophet (PBUH) never taught us about it.

NOTE: Niyyah counts- Niyyah does matter; With what niyyah you are performing that act.

There was no such kind of Congregational prayer after the Isha prayer in the month of Ramazan. The Holy Prophet (PBUH) offered Tahajjud prayer in the month of Ramazan and the other months. The Holy Prophet (PBUH) ordered Muslim Ummah to perform Tahajjud prayer at home, not in Congregation. The prayer which Sunnies perform after I’sha in congregational form is Bidah.

There is no evidential proof that the Holy prophet named this prayer "taraweeh" specifically in the month of Ramadan, and in other months he named it tahajjud.

Brother rehman1! Give proofs of your reasons..time, business, history, fear, revival.. and show that they gave these reasoning while reviving it. Hazrat Umar never gave these reasong and no body else. this is just your Kyass at this present time. he just describe the merits of Tahujjad Prayer at that time, while other people were praying Taraweeh. He even himself was not praying Taraweeh at that time. he was just looking at them.

This is a religious discussion, this is not a shia-Sunni matter.
Aslam-o-Alakum

There is no solid to disprove my comments instead of posting unrelated things in reply. And you will never listen because some other things are forcing you to stop thinking over it.

Wasalam
[email protected]
[/QUOTE]

To think that everybody else is buying your arguments IS INSANE.
What your doing is posting your arguments over and over again.
And your arguments shows your hatred for Hazrat Umr(RA).
I have provided all the necessary information.

13

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by inuit: *
Yes it is! Because this is a new form of Satanic act. He comes in different forms, you never know. Kufar e Makkah thought that the way they worship, it is from from the teaching of their saints and their Prophets. but it was not. similarly we think that Taraweeh is from the teachings of our Prophet (PBUH) but actually it is not. ...
[/QUOTE]

so which platform did you use to land your UFO on?

14

[QUOTE]
I have provided all the necessary information.
[/QUOTE]
Only tell me only one thing:

What was the TIME when the Holy Prophet(PBUH)prayed the Tahujjad (Taraweeh in your sense) prayer for 3 nights and some men joined him.

This is a simple question and keep it simple.

15

Chapter 117: ENCOURAGEMENT TO OBSERVE PRAYERS DURING RAMADAN AND THAT IS TARAWIH

Book 004, Number 1663:
Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) used to exhort (his Companions) to pray (at night) during Ramadan without commanding them to observe it as an obligatory act, and say: He who observed the night prayer in Ramadan because of faith and seeking his reward (from Allah), all his previous sins would be forgiven. When Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) died, this was the practice, and it continued thus during Abu Bakr's caliphate and the early part of 'Umar's caliphate.

16

Book 004, Number 1666:
'A'isha reported that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) prayed one night in the mosque and people also prayed along with him. He then prayed on the following night and there were many persons. Then on the third or fourth night (many people) gathered there, but the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) did not come out to them (for leading the Tarawih prayer). When it was morning he said: I saw what you were doing, but I desisted to come to you (and lead the prayer) for I feared that this prayer might become obligatory for you. (He the narrator) said: It was the month of Ramadan

17

i wonder how much time all of us could have spent on reading the Quran instead? But i guess it is more fun to argue about a point no one will agree on.

18

Asalam o Alakum, Brother Rehman1!

Thanks for your time.

The question to you is still there: instead of answering my question you just post the aAHadith about Tahajjud prayer.

[QUOTE]
The question was:
What was the TIME when the Holy Prophet(PBUH)prayed the Tahujjad (Taraweeh in your sense) prayer for 3 nights and some men joined him.
[/QUOTE]

Was that a 1st part of night after Isha' prayer or the last part of night (midnight) before Fajar prayer. when the Holy Prophet (PBUH) prayed the Tahujjad prayer for 3 night and some men joined him.

QUOTE.
[/QUOTE]

Secondly if you see the Hadith the word "Taraweeh" is in brackets. it is not part of hadith. that is why the translator used the brackets. and put the word taraweeh within brackets. because it was innovated sometime later after the death of the Holy Prophet. in the times of The holy prophet it was just Qyam ul Lail or the night prayer or Tahujjad which not specific for the month of Ramazan but for all months.

[QUOTE]
this was the practice, and it continued thus during Abu Bakr's caliphate and the early part of 'Umar's caliphate.
[/QUOTE]

Please keep the answer very simple.

Wasalam

[email protected]

19

:salam:

The debate on Taraweeh prayers is a Seasonal ‘sectarian’ event around the month of Ramadan. I think I will join the fray by ‘contributing’ the following which I got from the Net; everything is clear-cut unless you see ‘things’ with ‘sectarian bent’.

The Ramadan nightly prayer has a special merit over other nights. The Messenger of Allah said: “Whoever observes night prayer in Ramadan as an expression of his faith and to seek reward from Allah, his previous sins will be blotted out.” (Muslim)

In this hadith, faith means faith in what Allah has promised the observers of night prayers. To seek reward mean, the observer’s intent is not for eye service or seeking special recognition from someone.

Taraweeh is derived from the Arabic root word, raaha, which means to rest, relax and use as recreation. It is so called because the believers used to prolong it. After every four raka’ats they would stop for rest and relaxation and resume until taraweeh was complete.

Taraweeh In Jamaa`ah

The Messenger of Allah (saas) was the first to establish the Sunnah of congregational, jamaa`ah prayer of taraweeh in the Masjid. Then he did not continue with the Sunnah for fear that it might be made mandatory on the Ummah in Ramadan, and they might not be able to do it. In the books of Bukhari and Muslim, 'Aishah (raa) has been reported as saying:

"The Messenger of Allah (saas) observed Taraweeh prayer in the Masjid one night and people prayed with him. He repeated the following night and the number of participants grew. The companions congregated the third and fourth night, but the Messenger did not show up. In the morning he told them, “I saw what you did last night, but nothing prevented me from joining you except my fear that it might be made mandatory on you in Ramadan.”

This hadith is a clear indication that the Taraweeh in congregation was not an innovation of 'Umar, the second Khalifah, despite his saying to the contrary. For it has been related that: “Umar bin Al-Khattab attended the Masjid at night in Ramadan and saw people praying individually in every corner of the Masjid with a few in groups. He did not like the sight a bit. ‘Umar said, I thought it would be better to gather these under one Imam'. So, he combined them under 'Obayi bin Ka'ab and Tamimu Ad-Dari to alternate and lead the believers in eleven raka'ats of night prayer. The next day Umar was in the Masjid which was full with Taraweeh prayers. He was delighted. He said: `Well, this is the best Bid’ah (innovation).’”

`Umar’s use of the word bid’ah in this report has been presented and unjustifiably cited as justification for concocting up various so called good innovations. In truth, the Khalifah 'Umar’s act to gather the believers in Jama’ah is not bid’ah. For it was the Messenger of Allah himself who started jama’ah by praying in congregation the first and second day, then stopped only as he feared it would become mandatory.

After his death, the fear of Taraweeh becoming mandatory (Fard) was not only remote, it was impossible. With the death of the Prophet Muhammad (saas), there will be no more revelation to change any law or rule by abrogation.

The points which must be noted are:

1) The Messenger of Allah (saas) was the first to establish the Sunnah of congregational, jamaa`ah prayer of taraweeh in the Masjid
2) Then he did not continue with the Sunnah for fear that it might be made mandatory on the Ummah in Ramadan, and they might not be able to do it. Note that Rasool Allah (saw) never forbade it.
3) That Rasool Allah (saw) lead the prayers of the Taraweeh for three continuous days.
4) Rasool Allah (saw) did not come out lead the prayers on the fourth day saying at the time of Fajr; “I saw what you did last night, but nothing prevented me from joining you except my fear that it might be made mandatory on you in Ramadan.” That means that he feared that the Taraweeh prayers may be made mandatory. There is no express order that they cannot be performed or should be discontinued.
**5) This hadith is a clear indication that the Taraweeh in congregation was not an innovation of 'Umar (ra). Rasool Allah (saw) was the one who lead prayers to begin with. **
6) In truth, the Khalifah 'Umar’s act to gather the believers in Jama’ah is not bid’ah. For it was the Messenger of Allah himself who started jama’ah by praying in congregation the first and second day, then stopped only as he feared it would become mandatory.
7) Hazrat Ali (ra) acted as Chief Justice during the Khilaafat of Hazrat Omar (ra), he [Hazrat Ali (ra) would have reacted adversely if anything had been amiss.
**8) There is no record in any authentic book that on assuming Khilaafat, Hazrat Ali (ra) reversed the decision regarding the Taraweeh prayers. **

Many have wasted their precious time on discussion boards over the years. This will be my only ‘contribution’ on this thread.

Sis Nadia, you should say it again, this time a bit louder!

:wsalam:

20

Tahujaad Prayers:
Neend toor kar uthnaa after Ishaa Prayers.. Than pray namaz.Rasool Allah(SAW) use to recite few verses of Al-Imran.

Taraweeh:
Sunnah Mukaada according to Sunni Hanfi.
Timings ka waqt is between Ishaa and Fajr.