Taming the wild West (FATA): in American style

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Pakistan’s wild West in many ways bears similarities with the American Wild West of nineteenth century.

In the American Wild West, it was really easy for the criminals to hide, rob, and disobey the law. Big name robbers and decoits thrived in the remote regions of the American West.

This anarchy lasted for about 60 years. It is interesting to see how the local and Federal authorities in America were able to finally control this menace. Some of the things that played significant role were:

  1. Local police officials were given large sums of prize money for every killed or captured criminal.

  2. Huge expansion of privately operated railway system.

  3. Technology implementation such as telephone and telegraph

  4. Improvement of political control

With some modifications, we can use very similar methods to control the lawlessness and anarchy in our Western Frontier.

It is not going to be easy, but we’ll be successful if we use our will to resolve issues and improve the lives of our people in FATA.

peace.

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Re: Taming the wild West (FATA): in American style

Sorry to say it, Antiobl bahi , but my understanding here is , that rather going after the root cause of problem , you, like many others , simply believe on killing every one who stand in front without willing to know what has turn him up against you ( Pakistan) and think it will sort out the issue , I dare to converse

First of all we should keep that golden fact in mind that Pakistan doesn’t stand some where America was in nineteenth century , we are not invading any other country here , we gotta deal with people who are Pakistanis like you and me .

Your suggested points are good but they are elemental on same hand , it would be nice if you can throw some light on , how Pakistan can improve political control in FATA region . Secondly I disagree on giving government agencies an open license to kill as by doing this you are bringing many innocent lives in danger therefore I m afraid in such suggested scenario , people will ended up killing others for booty .

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Re: Taming the wild West (FATA): in American style

Thank you!

Scrap the draconian FCR (Frontier Crimes regulations). Bring tribal areas under provincial control of Peshawar, or if that doesn't work out, then make tribal areas as their own province, assembly, police force etc.

In either case tribal areas should be either called Sarhad Sooba, or some new province such as Khattak province.

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Re: Taming the wild West (FATA): in American style

You cannot compare America's situation in the 19th century to the Tribal Areas. The history, culture, and social systems of these two regions are completly different. One thing that we know is that whenever Pakistan has used force in trying to solve a problem it has always failed. The problem with many people on this forum is that they don't really know much about Pakistan, outside of Punjab and Karachi. Anyway, if Pakistan wants peace in the Tribal Areas it needs to go through the Tribal system. Pakistan's government and the ISI itself is the cause of the current unrest in the region. The government has ignored the local way of governing in the region and brought in its own corrupt politics. They have set up puppet tribal leaders who are funded by the ISI and individual members of the armed forces and government. The leaders of our nation have always thought that the tribals leaders are a bunch of uncivilized fools who they can use as their pawns to place their influence in the region and in Afghanistan. Today, they are suffering from the results of their own bad policies.

I agree with points 2,3 and 4. But we should start with 4 and restore the Jirga system, which should be supported by the locals. We cannot enforce the same laws that are in the rest of the country because they will never work. These people had a proper political system that is more democratic than Pakistan has ever been. Once we have some sort of political stability, we can implement points 3 and 2. We can slowly start some infrastructure development that will link the local people with the rest of the country. This will benefit the local economy and we can then slowly INTEGRATE FATA into the rest of Pakistan. Pakistan will never be succesful if it uses force in the region and it will be disasterous for us as a nation and for the people of the Tribal Areas if FATA is immediately made a province.

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Re: Taming the wild West (FATA): in American style

^ very informative

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Re: Taming the wild West (FATA): in American style

Hi this may be linked to the discussion in this thread!

“On July 22nd 2004, The Guardian reported that Omar Sheikh, a British-born Islamist, had, on the instructions of General Mahmoud Ahmed, the then head of Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), wired $100,000 before the 9/11 attacks to Mohammed Atta, the lead hijacker. When Ahmed was exposed by the Wall Street Journal as having sent the money to the hijackers, he was forced to retire by President Musharraf. [1]](Mahmud Ahmed - Wikipedia)”

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/FD08Aa01.html

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Re: Taming the wild West (FATA): in American style

Well then I guess they must have been allowing their women to vote. Right?

Pakistani laws will never work? Now that's a lot of exaggeration.

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Re: Taming the wild West (FATA): in American style

Pashtun society may be conservative; however, before its Talibanization by Pakistan, women played a very active role in society and they had their representatives in the Jirga. According to Sharia law, a women's word is worth that of three men, in Pashtunwali a women's word is equal to that of her male counter part. It is true that women do not have equality in Pashtun society but they still played a greater role than women in the rest of Pakistan.

I'm not saying that the tribal system is 100% democratic but it is far better than the corrupt "democracy" of Pakistan. The legal system has failed in Pakistan. After 60 years of independence, today, the Judiciary is finally ascerting its authority. We have spent the the last 60 years in and out of military rule, our constitution has been shredded numerous times, our main political parties do not hold internal elections and do not function to the grassroots, we do not have any stable democratic institutions functioning, the entire system is corrupt. Pakistani law does not work in Pakistan itself so how can you expect it to work in the tribal areas?

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Re: Taming the wild West (FATA): in American style

I think you are saying that Pashtuns in Tribal society do not deserve the law and order. That is like treating them as if they belong to a mentally lower level than the rest.

Tribals areas have been begging for the rights for a long time. They don't want to be governed by the draconian rules called FCR.

FCR has treated these tribals as wild animals that do not deserve a law abiding society.

Thanks to FCR and Jirga system, tribal society has become hotbed of criminals , terrorists, and recently suiciders.

Criminals have used tribal areas long before Talibans and pimped the innocent people there.

Few examples of criminality are:

Right now the electricity theft in the rest of the country is 30% at its worst while in tribal areas the theft is 100%.

Almost 90% of the settled areas pay customs and excise on cars.
In tribal areas 100% of cars are unlicensed and without custom.

You can't eat drink and sleep Jirga. For real life you have to run businesses that bring development and prosperity. With the historically criminal element thanks to FCR, no sane businessman can go in tribal areas for investment.

This will surely result in the abject poverty and further degradation of the Pashtun tribes.

It is easy for people like SJ to live in comfy Mississauga, and give lectures on the virtues of FCR.

It is mighty difficult to talk about bread and butter issues.

Peace!

*~*~* I m Ur ----------- fRnD *~*~*
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Re: Taming the wild West (FATA): in American style

You just contradicted yourself. But everyone knows that women are in tribal Pashtun society are hardly close to equal to men, otherwise they wouldn't be forced to dress with tents covering them, and practcially locked in their houses.

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Re: Taming the wild West (FATA): in American style

Nice try with the interpretation of my post. The tribal areas do not deserve to have any further interference from the corrupt and dirty politics of the unstable centralized government of Pakistan. I am not a supporter of the FCR but the Pakistani government is definetly backing it. The government has chosen not to integrate the people of the tribal areas into the rest of the country. They have done this on purpose because they have used these federally administered tribal areas as a place where they can breed criminals and use them in their favour. The government does not want development and integration of the tribals because for the last 60 years they have been a valuable asset to their corruption. We can start from the inception of Pakistan and the government bribing the tribals into capturing kashmir by letting them loot every major town they captured. From that day on the governent has exploited and used the tribals for their own dirty interests. Today they are freaking out because the mess that they have made is spilling over into the rest of the country and there is mounting international pressure and threats against the tribal areas.

As far as the statistics you provided, how exactly do you expect the people of FATA to pay for these things? And who will account for the natural resources that are being stolen from Balcohistan and the Frontier? If you want to speak of bread and water, first look into the source that is depriving these people of it.

BTW, not that my place of residence is any of your business but I live in the city of Toronto and my comfort has nothing to do with my level of awareness. Take the blindfolds off and refer to my first post regarding Pakistanis who do not know much about Pakistan outside of the comfort of PUNJAB and KARACHI.

The Random Thread
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Re: Taming the wild West (FATA): in American style

There is no contradiction in my statement. Pashtun women being active in society does not mean that they have 100% equality rights. Name a place in the world that women do enjoy complete equality with men. The point is that Pashtun women were more involved in the social and political arenas of their region. You are ignorant to make the last statement because you don't know much about Pashtun society. The tents that they wear have become a symbol of womens opression in Pashtun society on boths sides of the Durrand line. All credit goes to the governments and intelligence service of Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. They bred Islamic extremism along the borders of Pakistan and Afghanistan in order to create the Taliban, which, have enforced these tents and oppressed the women of this region. It is these same people who describe our tribal system as unislamic but that is because our tribal system gave women more rights than islam ever did.

But tell me something, what rights are the women in the rest of Pakistan enjoying? Pakistan is a country in which women are second class citizens. I think the hudood ordinance was countered only a few months ago. They are still not functioning properly. If a women in our country is raped, she is probably trying to get "a Canadian visa" Not only that but even if she is raped, she needs three "pious" men to to state that they witnessed the intercourse or else the women will be charged for adultery or pre-marital sex. Thousands of our women sit in jails for crimes that they have not seen trial for and probably have not committed.

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Re: Taming the wild West (FATA): in American style

What do you mean by saying "Talibanization by PAKISTAN"? Pashtuns are themselves Pakistanis.

I find it difficult to buy the idea that women were free in rural Pashtun areas, because most Taliban (Pashtuns) actually follow their traditions and culture instead of Islam, when it comes to women.

[quote]
I'm not saying that the tribal system is 100% democratic but it is far better than the corrupt "democracy" of Pakistan.
[/quote]

  • How is it better than democracy?
  • What about democracies in other countries? Is it better than them too?

[quote]
I'm not saying that the tribal system is 100% democratic but it is far better than the corrupt "democracy" of Pakistan.
[/quote]

It works in Peshawar then why not in FATA?
Problem with democracy in FATA (and other parts of Pakistan is illiteracy.

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Re: Taming the wild West (FATA): in American style

Who said that Pashtuns are not Pakistanis? When I wrote Pakistan, I was referring to the government of Pakistan, not Pakistani people.

I don't think you are understanding my stance on the issue. I stated already that Pashtun society is conservative but the women still played a strong role in society. Most Taliban suffer from an identity crisis and try to reject Pashtun culture as un-islamic. They try to follow an extremist form of Islam which has removed women from society, put them in burqa's and forbidden them to leave their homes. You don't even know what Pashtun culture is, how would you know how Pashtun women lived and what rights they had?

Who said anything about the tribal system being better than democracy? I said that is was better than the so called "democracy" of Pakistan.

Again, you show great knowledge of Pashtun culture by asking such a question. Peshawar's history is very different from that of the tribal areas, the social structure is also very different.

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Re: Taming the wild West (FATA): in American style

Oh mufakkar sahib, you live in Canada and give us Pakistanis lectures on our own country.

FYI, we frequently travel to the area. Luckily we know some good Pashtoon families there. However an ordinary businessman from Karachi cannot dare to go and open a business in FATA.

FATAns on the other hand can come to Karachi any time and setup shops, drive buses, or do any job that matches their talent.

Why you refuse us the Pakistanis the same favor, that you so willingly take from us and even from the rest of the world? Why you think it is your right to live, bread, and get fat in KANNA-ADDA, but heavens would fall if a Canadian shows up (just for a visit) in the Fittay Moonh FATA area?

You call this barbaric behavior as bravery, we the civilized people call it criminality, and Be-Gharati. And you are hell bent on supporting be-ghairati in the name of "criminal and tribal traditions" all the while living in comfy Mississauga.

Wah Khan ji Wah!

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Re: Taming the wild West (FATA): in American style

Thanks for the great comeback, it was very well articulated. It is also nice to see that you have experience mocking Pashtuns, its not something that I'm unfamiliar with. Save the stories about your frequent travels to the area, its not gonna strengthen your contradictory statements. You have refered to Pashtuns as be-gharat, uncivilized, criminals, and barbaric but then you say you know "some good pashtuns." I know my opinions don't please most Punjabis or Urdu-speaking people, your not the only one who has referred to me as a non-Pakistani on this board. Your ignorance and hatred may work well in your "civilized" circles, but with me you have to try harder. Better luck next time.

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Re: Taming the wild West (FATA): in American style

**An ordinary businessman from Karachi cannot dare to go and open a business in FATA.

FATAns on the other hand can come to Karachi any time and setup shops, drive buses, or do any job that matches their talent.
**

No answer! Still waiting!

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Re: Taming the wild West (FATA): in American style

Instead of replying to post number 11, you change the entire topic of the thread to my life in Toronto and your personal hatred for Pashtuns. Now that you have run out of arguments you resort to asking questions that have clear and obvious answers. I don't think anyone needs to be a frequent traveller to the area in order to answer your question.

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Re: Taming the wild West (FATA): in American style

SJ toronto yaar, don't bee such a joker!!

Some of your claims are out laughable. Bachu khan aside [don't represent majority non-commie pashtuns anyway], when did pathan culture had equality for a women? You want me to give an example. Here is one: In pashtun culture, the bride saw her husband the first time on the wedding day through a "mirror". The mirror tradition still exists in modern pashtun families. I didn't know the reason for it before. Buddy, how do you explain the qaum-e-loot symptoms in many of your pashtuns if women are treated all equally??? Of course, when they can't see even a ghost of a women then many of the these people go astray like the qaum-e-loot..

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Re: Taming the wild West (FATA): in American style

I do not understand, at one hand you are saying that tribal areas shud not be interfered with and on the other hand you talk about interpretation.

If i am right, in Tribal areas even to this day, only the "Maliks" can be a candidate for NA and only "Maliks" can vote.

Tribals need to be integrated not just with Pakistan but rather with whole world. They need to have a democratic system and not be run under make shift laws like FCR.