Talism + who dun it now?

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so, i went to this talk by Asma Jehangir recently & the things which she, one of the people i look up to & undoubtedly respect, said, are alarming.

this is what she said that in Pakistan is the case now.

  1. COMPLETE lawlessness (within the country’s law enforcement agency & the army - pockets of gangsters within police and army), 7000 + people on death row (cases where the alleged for the assassination plots against the president are automatically put on death row, with little or no recourse to legal defense of impunity), 45 cases of women on death row, & sell out judges
  2. adverse military rule - those who are supposed to protect the borders, are busy HELPING others invade our country & kill our own to appease the foreign govt namely US govt, FRESH creation of US style torture cells in far flung areas within Pakistan, where people are actually detained, brainwashed, & given some sort of injection, ear drums missing, & face suffering of sexual humiliation as well
    3. discord in provinces, no regular parliamentary sessions, no civil dialog between provincial govts
    4. utter violation of human rights
    5. no societal concern for the abiding by Law
    6. ever present crime of corruption at every level of the economic and political systems, disparity in affluence
    7. amorality and a-religiosity
    8. open mistake of volunteering the country’s DEFENSE info to bow down in front of the temporary ‘friend’ - US
    9. illusions of inner peace, propaganda during elections
  3. in the wake of the earth quakes, and regular violence against women, children & their trafficking
    11. kidnappings of & threats to civilians and intellectuals
  4. blind rat race to hoard money, with NO realization for the consequences of short-term self serving agendas which all the elite have

& courtesy OF the general’s rule of following the biddings of a devil… two presidents, d e m o n c r a t s - bush & uncle ji, General Musharraf, raises the question of the existence of a country at this point – our country.

Asmaa said, both know so much wrong & weak points about each other, that they cannot afford to annoy each other, but the moment US will stop its bribing of the Pakistani govt, the country will either fall into the hands of outsiders or break apart into some nationalist Balochistani and Sindhi fragments.

when, asked, why she is not in politics, she said, “BETA, I WILL BE NOTHING BUT A LOTA.” She also said, she would gladly be in office, granted her office was given credibility & dignity.

earlier, she said that her black coat of a lawyer cannot get any more black than it already is. Asmaa said that today, in the country, there are NO neutral and just courts to go to, for plaintiffs.

hello, do we see that it is no one else, but us, as a nation who needs to take up the huge task of minding our house, and protecting it in a WISE manner or else, we wont be able to enjoy the privilege of misusing our freedom in our country. a dear friend of mine, says, these are signs of a failing nation.
but we MUST ask of ourselves, why are we letting this happen?

it ached me to hear what she had to tell. & No, i wont hear or tolerate anyone saying anything bad about her. i listened to Musharraf last year & i listened to her as well, and i heard her this time, again. & she makes much more sense, than he did.

it is no one else, but us, as a nation & as individuals who should do all we can to protect our identity - as a sovereign and stable Muslim country as well as a nation with integrity and dignity.

this is some sort of parallel reality which we cannot look away from. the irony is that it is being allowed by us Pakistanis, and little do we know that it is costing us our FUTURE.

chime

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Re: Talism + who dun it now?

Aasma Jahangeer :o

a human rights activist who often talks against Islamic laws :-)

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Re: Talism + who dun it now?

YOu know Dushwari, I always like your threads and writing. And I usually agree with your opinions about things.
And I agree with what Asma is saying in this above mentioned discussion but trust me, I've seen the real drama of her NGO as well. Its nothing but tyring to get $$$$ from foreign govts as aid which is usally spent on everything but charity.
Arranging a few protests every year (with the women who have no idea of what Paksitan means, what Islam means and what human rights means) doesn't lead to success.
Its all propaganda. A lot of NGOs run by these kind of women are just for publicity and $$.

Asma is always there when a young girl runs away from home with her BF but where does she go when poor women work 18 hrs a day to just earn some food for their kids etc. That is counted among human right issues as well. And this is just one example. There are tons of things that people won't agree if they look closely to Asma's NGO as well as other so-called.

You don't have to agree with me but this is what I've been closely observing for a few years now.

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Re: Talism + who dun it now?

cool breeze,

i respect and admire the politeness and respect with which u disagree with Asmaa Jehangir's work.

we all have flaws.

fighting for and in favor of women rights is not about saying or helping that women become amoral like plenty of men in Pakistan.

when some one kills his daughter or sister in honor killing, when some one marrys a woman, and then abandons her, when a young woman is brutally raped, lawyers like Asmaa step up and condemn such crimes.

im afraid that it could be this that u are confused about the character integrity of Asmaa Jehangir. Fine. i don’t want to go into that as none of us know the facts, we were too young to know all that and all the bad that we have been drilled into our head about her, is be no body else, but people her age group who have their own dirty agendas.

please take her as a lawyer. take her as a conscientious one as well.

She is our Moms' age old. at least what we can do, is grant the pardon of prejudging her moral ideals, and step beyond the gender blind we have on our eyes.

i am sure, like every one else, she is also guilty of something in her economic or political agenda. & from time to time, she publicly says that some of her choices are and have been tricky and bad.

issue here is not that what she comes with, in front of her, but what she comes from - a country that is at risk of civil war.

who else, if not the law enforcement agencies & the justice system would know better, about the issues on the ground?

with 30 years worth of Human rights work, she is not just putting on a show for all.

there are stark realities, from which we cannot run away - other wise, we will have no meaning for accountable govts and the nation as a people who can assess the right from wrong.

what i heard from her, as i was lucky enough to be close to her, very near to her, i could see on her face, that she is a one woman's army in the country.

how many other people are as brave as she is?

i would invite u to reassess ur understanding of her work and her method of taking actions against the loopholes in the country's various sectors and about its many different aspects.
i wish we could for once, not judge each other as people from two different gender, but as different professionals, esp. with her seniority of experience in the practical life.
thanks,

Dushwari

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Re: Talism + who dun it now?

^^
again I totally agree with you. and I admire that your thinking level is higher than a lot of other people.

Ofcourse I love Pakistani people. I'm one of them and I'll love to follow the lead of those who take care of cruelty issues against women.

I know that she is the lawyer for those women who go through the pain & suffering of rapes, & killings. But I can never agree with the way, she handles those cases. And I seriously see some other objectives behind it.

I know she is like my elders and I am supposed to repsect her for that. and I DO but am not obligated to respect her doings.

I've read, listened her interviews. I have seen her protesting on the roads. Trust me, the way, she & her coworkers ruin women respect on the roads - am sure you will agree with me if you see it.
Half of her discussions in the interviews are clearly against Islam.

Trying to reach a right destination using the wrong path doesn't make everything right and worthy. (am sorry to say but what I see, there is something wrong here in the destination/objectives too).

Same here. I'm just giving my opinion. :)
Allah knows the best.

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Re: Talism + who dun it now?

CB, you have explained it really well, however, I am afraid that Dushwari's impressionable mind is not convinced. She will continue to see this anti-islam woman as a hero.

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Re: Talism + who dun it now?

^^
well, she has her own opinion. And am sure she has some justification

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Re: Talism + who dun it now?

The best story of Asma Jahangir was her visit to India. This woman had been praising India for several years & they treated her exactly the way she should be treated.

I respect some of her statements & deeds but as many mentioned its all stunt.

lollllllllllllllllllllll
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Re: Talism + who dun it now?

Dushwari Baji

Asma Jahangir is among the women i hate the most. She only takes up high profile cases that attract media attention and where there is a chance to defame Islam & Pakistan.

One example of her Hypocrisy is that she had been talking about child labour so much while child labours work in her husbands company. When she was asked abput it, she said, if Pakistan makes a law about child labour will abide by it, till then will continue to hire child labours.

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Re: Talism + who dun it now?

yeah ,,,,I mean all this stuff she said...is she like running for a seat in the election ...
seems like it...

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Re: Talism + who dun it now?

The truth hurts. So lets rubbish the messenger.

Rather than discuss the issues Asma raised - almost every one showed a bias against her personally. The real message was ignored.

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Re: Talism + who dun it now?

The real message was not ignored. Our views about her aren't personal- why would - she hasn't done anything wrong to us personally.
Its just the matter of difference in her approach towards things that we don't agree with.
We all respect Dushi and we are just discussing :)

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Re: Talism + who dun it now?

Dushwari, thumbs up for posting this thread.
I think you got a good clue now, what happens
IF someone tries to defend to helpless in general.
They will be blacklisted, called names, and also
trashed whenever possible. When the women of
opponents are behind 7 veils and at home indoors,
most hours of the day, rest can just rot according to
their unfortunate circumstances. "un ki bala sey jo hota hai.."
Our desi society is built on the presence of the alpha male,
the father, the son, the uncle etc. However, no one lives 4ever....
By Allah, men can do the most unheard crimes to less fortunate
women, if they have a chance to do so. At such moment, there exists
no Islam or Diin, because they will bend it under some weak hadice.
hmm, I tend to emotional when its comes to the helpless and needy...

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Re: Talism + who dun it now?

thanks, cool breeze.

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Re: Talism + who dun it now?

Takabur, chugli, aur geebet, barey afsoos kee baat hey.

May Allah guide you to refrain from these.

what have you done to make the plight of women, b dresssed?

as a man, how many times, have you denounced and stood against the male cruelty against women, as a well meaning & a genuinely concerned human being?

ASK YOUR SELF THIS AND THEN MULL OTHER PEOPLES' REPUTATION JUST TO SATISFY YOUR OWN APATHETIC EGO.

BEST,

I dont know why..
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Re: Talism + who dun it now?

thanks Pathani,
i understand what u are saying. and thanks for understanding what i am intending to say.
we need to take men along us, in order to make sure that the next generation of men, is not victim of ignorance.
Islam is, mind you all, what protects the rights of men and women.
we need to NOT misinterpret nor confuse Islam with the way of life, they're one and the same.
why would not women take to the streets, to ask or lobby for justice, when in their own homes, even when they are purda dar, they are molested, abused, beaten, decided-for and spoiled individually, psychologically, and sexually??
whoever said that Asmaa only fights for high profile cases, please tell me, since when is Muktara bibi’s case HIGH PROFILE??
any right man and woman will know the difference between, the issue and its fabrication.
& that is what we need to do.
best,

Dushwari

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Re: Talism + who dun it now?

thanks, Malhot.

Dushi

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Re: Talism + who dun it now?

thanks, Cool Breeze.

i agree with some of what you say.
sometimes e need to shame into embarrassment a society who has some psychological phenomenon of not seeing the pain and wrong doing of women, and not feeling the severity of crimes against them, which is why women have no other option but to retaliate by much more aggressive means.

after Mukhtara mai's gang rape by police itself, when Asmaa and women protested, people and teh govt and police was ordered to pull bras of wome3n and to disgrace the protesting women by threatening them of rape as a consequence of their strikes,

what do u have to say to that??
stick hits and locks ups is fine, but humiliating women asking for explanation for injustice, i don’t and cannot accept it as a self respecting woman.
& men are party to that apathy to a point where they must let go of the confusion between the deen and the right to ask for justice. Deen is justice. it is another issue altogether that it is misconstrued to serve some malicious men and to give them the charge to exploit women.

perhaps, i will investigate the issues more and then
we can discuss it further.

thanks for ur trust in my ability to perceive things without taking sides.

Dushi

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Re: Talism + who dun it now?

You might need to read again what we all are trying to say :)
WE AREN'T AGAINST HER DOINGS BECAUSE OF HER GENDER. Plz don't conclude that we all want women indoors. Trust me I would never want it as am female myself

I know its off the topic but when you say "desi society is bulit on alpha male", I agree with you but not totally. I am proud that I belong to a society where my father, my uncles, my brother, my male cousins all take care of me so much. I see that in pakistan, males suffer a lot too just to makesure that the females in the family don't suffer.
I don't see males suffering for females in the western culture at all.
So there are both good & bads in Desi culture. Here females arrange their own living, their own education, their own wedding, they're supposed to work full time. While its mostly done by males for them in Pakistan. Ofcourse there are issues in our culture too but its everywhere. so don't generalize.

Here treat from my side for all GS
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Re: Talism + who dun it now?

That is the thing that pinches me. Why did she help Mukhtara Mai's case - ONLY because it was all in the public so PUBLICITY could be much much easier. You know Asmaa has a lot of big contacts in Pakistan. She could just easily win the case in the court and help her and then could try to educate the public. She chose to go on roads. Whatever happened to women on the roads (its a shame for a muslim society) But truthfully, going on the roads & protesting is never a solution. There are so many other ways of fighting/protesting against issues.
And how come she only takes the cases where the issues are already well known by the public. whats about the rape cases where a tiny news is published one day and forgotten the next day. Why doesn't she help those females?.
I was little so I don't know the details but I remember, once Asmaa and Co were protesting somewhere (i guess it was Mall Road) in Lahore. Those women were literally burning their duppatas/scarfs (duppata is a sign of respect in pakistan) and were screaming like crazy. The very next day, the news were on the front pages. Result = None but so-called publicity. You know, that makes it easier to get $$$ from foreign govts.

They were protesting for women rights by disrespecting women. I don't think they can ever justify that.

Again, I might be wrong but thats what I think. And you are right, we should investigate it further. The findings might make me think otherwise :)

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